Magenta
See my post #15. I addressed this already! Even if you are only attempting to say that it cannot
be known whether or not absolutes exist, you are making a self contradictory statement.
And the fact still remains: God as an absolute, absolutely wants you to know Him
Have you paid any attention to what I wrote Magenta? It doesn't sound like it. What you are talking about is the relativist position. I am not a relativist. After I took all this time to explain it, I find it a bit despiriting that you don't get that basic thing about my position...
Go back to post #169, and you'll see that I said absolute truths most likely exists, I do believe they do in fact, as ideals. And what you don't get in what I'm saying, is that absolute knowledge of those absolute truths does not seem achievable. I am not making an absolute statement to refute that there are absolutes, that's not it. I'm saying our knowledge about those absolutes is at best provisional. Is that clearer ?
And I don't want to sound presumptuous but if you think that idea is preposterous, then you don't know much about philosophy. It is not just me saying it, it is the accepted conclusion of modern philosophy... you appologists and born again christians are at odd with what science and philosophy have to say on the subject, I'm not making this up. Check it for yourself.
And that's the problem we have here, you born again christians take for granted that you can positively "know" something by revelation and faith, while I find, while science and philosophy finds, that faith as an epistemology is not reliable. Through faith you can claim absolute belief but not absolute knowledge. And they are not the same thing.
And this happens to be relevant to this thread because i started it and my aim in doing so was to get questions anwsered. This is the main issue I have for now in my inquiry as to whether God exists, because I think I got the point that unless you accept faith as an epistemology, which I don't, you cannot "know" God. You all have repeated that enough times to me, haven't you ?
So you what i understand you are telling me is that arguments and evidence is secondary to faith as a way to know God.
Is that correct?
I'd like to talk about this only please.
I will quickly respond to some of the other questions, but I really do not want to get dragged into a debate about the Kalam argument or god forbid, evolution with you people, because, on those topics my confidence is pretty high and it will turn into a shooting match filled with condescension for sure... so let's keep the friendly tone, I am genuinely interested by the topic of faith as an epistemology... you guys live it and I want to investigate it.
can we do that?
For all those who answered to some of my previous question, Iacknowledge the answer, they make things a bit clearer for me (sometimes... beyondET, i really didn't get your drift in your last post... Tintin, you never explain what you meant either). If i don't mention them it is because from now on I won't be exploring in those direction for a while, I'd rather focus on the more central question epistemology.
A quick response to aristocrat though, I was obviously refering to the more important discrepancies in the various accounts of the resurection, not merely to the color of the robe, such as the ones found here for example : Contradictions in the Resurrection Account although my original source was a much more serious book about the subject. If you don't trust the website, go check for yourself. It is correct, I checked.
Depleted, thanks for paring off the « prove God doesn't exists » question for me, that one annoys me more than most other vapid retorts... let's keep the level up.
Robomango, thanks for answering but in case that wasn't clear i wasn't asking about evolution or the big bang, which I'm fully aware you guys distrust, I was asking specifically what would make you doubt about JESUS.
Here is the exact question I asked, I'd still would like an answer, thank you :
Is there something you can conceive which would make you change your mind about Jesus?
See my post #15. I addressed this already! Even if you are only attempting to say that it cannot
be known whether or not absolutes exist, you are making a self contradictory statement.
And the fact still remains: God as an absolute, absolutely wants you to know Him
Have you paid any attention to what I wrote Magenta? It doesn't sound like it. What you are talking about is the relativist position. I am not a relativist. After I took all this time to explain it, I find it a bit despiriting that you don't get that basic thing about my position...
Go back to post #169, and you'll see that I said absolute truths most likely exists, I do believe they do in fact, as ideals. And what you don't get in what I'm saying, is that absolute knowledge of those absolute truths does not seem achievable. I am not making an absolute statement to refute that there are absolutes, that's not it. I'm saying our knowledge about those absolutes is at best provisional. Is that clearer ?
And I don't want to sound presumptuous but if you think that idea is preposterous, then you don't know much about philosophy. It is not just me saying it, it is the accepted conclusion of modern philosophy... you appologists and born again christians are at odd with what science and philosophy have to say on the subject, I'm not making this up. Check it for yourself.
And that's the problem we have here, you born again christians take for granted that you can positively "know" something by revelation and faith, while I find, while science and philosophy finds, that faith as an epistemology is not reliable. Through faith you can claim absolute belief but not absolute knowledge. And they are not the same thing.
And this happens to be relevant to this thread because i started it and my aim in doing so was to get questions anwsered. This is the main issue I have for now in my inquiry as to whether God exists, because I think I got the point that unless you accept faith as an epistemology, which I don't, you cannot "know" God. You all have repeated that enough times to me, haven't you ?
So you what i understand you are telling me is that arguments and evidence is secondary to faith as a way to know God.
Is that correct?
I'd like to talk about this only please.
I will quickly respond to some of the other questions, but I really do not want to get dragged into a debate about the Kalam argument or god forbid, evolution with you people, because, on those topics my confidence is pretty high and it will turn into a shooting match filled with condescension for sure... so let's keep the friendly tone, I am genuinely interested by the topic of faith as an epistemology... you guys live it and I want to investigate it.
can we do that?
For all those who answered to some of my previous question, Iacknowledge the answer, they make things a bit clearer for me (sometimes... beyondET, i really didn't get your drift in your last post... Tintin, you never explain what you meant either). If i don't mention them it is because from now on I won't be exploring in those direction for a while, I'd rather focus on the more central question epistemology.
A quick response to aristocrat though, I was obviously refering to the more important discrepancies in the various accounts of the resurection, not merely to the color of the robe, such as the ones found here for example : Contradictions in the Resurrection Account although my original source was a much more serious book about the subject. If you don't trust the website, go check for yourself. It is correct, I checked.
Depleted, thanks for paring off the « prove God doesn't exists » question for me, that one annoys me more than most other vapid retorts... let's keep the level up.
Robomango, thanks for answering but in case that wasn't clear i wasn't asking about evolution or the big bang, which I'm fully aware you guys distrust, I was asking specifically what would make you doubt about JESUS.
Here is the exact question I asked, I'd still would like an answer, thank you :
Is there something you can conceive which would make you change your mind about Jesus?
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