Once saved, always saved

[roaringkitten]

Salvation is not an experience of wants and desires. (althhough God wants to give us all these things, they are a result of salvation, not salvation itself.)

it is your position in christ, are you saved, adopted as Gods child. and alive in him,

or are you dead in sin, need saved, and an enemy of the cross.

Both people have feelings which can be good or bad.. The feelings do not matter, what atters is what God said. Are you his child. .or are you on the outside looking in, If your on the outside Alll the good feeling religious duties you do which make you think you are a child of God are useless. God calls them filthy rags, and totally useless.

For you, You need to repent and come to Christ as a babe, in total humility.. Otherwise, you will remain in your deceived emotional position which going the wrong way

Great points! It was God that clothed us with the garments of salvation, the robe of righteousness:

"I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels." Isa 61:10

It's an action that is completed by God, not some ongoing salvation that so many make it out to be. Adam and Eve tried to cover themselves(Gen 3:7), but that wasn't good enough for God. God provided and clothed them with animal skins(Gen 3:21) which infers an animal sacrifice. God provided for us the sacrificial Lamb of God which "taketh away the sin of the world" John 1:29, "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins." Heb 10:4

"But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God" Heb 10:12

By His blood we were redeemed forever.

"Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." Heb 9:12

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sounds to me, like you still do not understand what these folks mean by "OSAS".

we have been trying to tell him that for months now.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Self condemnation.

Soo how low people will go in order to continue in their unbelief and self righteousness.

grace person is sensitive to sin, They not only are sensitive to it, They see how truly sinful they are more and more as they grow in Christ (things they did not think were sin before they now see as self focused sinful behavior, which takes them away from doing what God wants them to do and what he wants them to focus on.

Thats why eternal security in Christ is the foundation of Christianity. If one is not secure in Christ the more sin they realised they have, the more condemned they would have to feel which only leaves them few options.

Run in fear, and lack of hope. why try anymore, we are failures
Hide the sin, and put n an external costume of holiness so they think they are more righteous than they are
Get in contact with people who struggle with the same sins, so you can all be self rightious together
surround yourself with worse sinners, So you do not have to see your own sin, because yours is not as bad as theirs.
or finally, Get around a group of self righteous sinners who teach law and good deed's, Condemn and judge sinners, and do it all in the name of God.

for the grace believer, We run to our abba father, knowing he has not given us a spirit of fear. and we can boldly enter the throne room and not only know we have grace and forgiveness (even though we may be chastened) but we have gods love, help and support to grow out of those sin areas, and love him even more.

 

[nowyouseem033]

I believe in once saved always saved!!! Clearly taught in the bible

Its once prayed always saved I have a problem with!!!!

Can you lose your salvation???
This suggests two contradictory statements.

1) That salvation is yours.. (Can you...lose YOUR)
2) and that salvation is conditional based upon YOUR choice for him or against him. Which then puts YOU at the very centre of saving yourself!!! hence following maintaining yourself also.


Salavation is of the lord, so when God saves since God does the saving, the question is reversed to a God centred view and understanding.
Can God lose your salvation? rather than Can I lose my salvation?
to answer this question is simply by answering this question:
Who does the saving???
Whoever does the saving is the very same being that does the maintaining.
Clearly God does the saving so therefore God is the one who finishes that which has been started.
and once your saved, God will never lose you and their no longer remains condemnation for those that are his.
Remember we didn't choose him, he chose us.

However don't think a person is saved because they professed faith because it is possessing faith that determines if one is saved not professing faith. Many professing faith Christians few possessing faith Christians.
Hence once prayed always saved is the statement we should be attacking not once saved always saved.

 

[Grandpa]

I believe in once saved always saved!!! Clearly taught in the bible

Its once prayed always saved I have a problem with!!!!

Can you lose your salvation???
This suggests two contradictory statements.

1) That salvation is yours.. (Can you...lose YOUR)
2) and that salvation is conditional based upon YOUR choice for him or against him. Which then puts YOU at the very centre of saving yourself!!! hence following maintaining yourself also.


Salavation is of the lord, so when God saves since God does the saving, the question is reversed to a God centred view and understanding.
Can God lose your salvation? rather than Can I lose my salvation?
to answer this question is simply by answering this question:
Who does the saving???
Whoever does the saving is the very same being that does the maintaining.
Clearly God does the saving so therefore God is the one who finishes that which has been started.
and once your saved, God will never lose you and their no longer remains condemnation for those that are his.
Remember we didn't choose him, he chose us.

However don't think a person is saved because they professed faith because it is possessing faith that determines if one is saved not professing faith. Many professing faith Christians few possessing faith Christians.
Hence once prayed always saved is the statement we should be attacking not once saved always saved.

What about the statement in James that Faith without works is dead?

Doesn't this imply that the believer must maintain their own salvation by their work?

 

[PeterJens]

Praise the Lord, then we all have our sins forgiven and we walk in grace and love.

I am glad you agree with me that salvation is by faith alone, with transformed hearts we walk in purity and righteousness empowered by the Holy Spirit. Hallelujah.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
Rev 1:5-6

I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matt 5:32

Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation.
Luke 11:4

The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1 Tim 1:5

 

[John146]

What about the statement in James that Faith without works is dead?

Doesn't this imply that the believer must maintain their own salvation by their work?

To whom is James written? That will help with the answer. James is a Jewish epistle. No student of Scripture has ever been successful making it a Christian epistle.

 

[roaringkitten]

I believe in once saved always saved!!! Clearly taught in the bible

Its once prayed always saved I have a problem with!!!!

Can you lose your salvation???
This suggests two contradictory statements.

1) That salvation is yours.. (Can you...lose YOUR)
2) and that salvation is conditional based upon YOUR choice for him or against him. Which then puts YOU at the very centre of saving yourself!!! hence following maintaining yourself also.


Salavation is of the lord, so when God saves since God does the saving, the question is reversed to a God centred view and understanding.
Can God lose your salvation? rather than Can I lose my salvation?
to answer this question is simply by answering this question:
Who does the saving???
Whoever does the saving is the very same being that does the maintaining.
Clearly God does the saving so therefore God is the one who finishes that which has been started.
and once your saved, God will never lose you and their no longer remains condemnation for those that are his.
Remember we didn't choose him, he chose us.

However don't think a person is saved because they professed faith because it is possessing faith that determines if one is saved not professing faith. Many professing faith Christians few possessing faith Christians.
Hence once prayed always saved is the statement we should be attacking not once saved always saved.

Exactly! The quick say a sinners prayer method is 100% unBiblical(I've seen this first hand) It just so happens that many of those who ask the sinner to repeat a prayer happen to believe in eternal security also(my experience seeing this). People are right to reject the sinners prayer, but they lump in eternal security as a false doctrine too. Proper evangelism, and teaching/discipling new converts sound doctrine is something I have found lacking in many of the churches I have attended.

 

[roaringkitten]

I believe in once saved always saved!!! Clearly taught in the bible

Its once prayed always saved I have a problem with!!!!

Can you lose your salvation???
This suggests two contradictory statements.

1) That salvation is yours.. (Can you...lose YOUR)
2) and that salvation is conditional based upon YOUR choice for him or against him. Which then puts YOU at the very centre of saving yourself!!! hence following maintaining yourself also.


Salavation is of the lord, so when God saves since God does the saving, the question is reversed to a God centred view and understanding.
Can God lose your salvation? rather than Can I lose my salvation?
to answer this question is simply by answering this question:
Who does the saving???
Whoever does the saving is the very same being that does the maintaining.
Clearly God does the saving so therefore God is the one who finishes that which has been started.
and once your saved, God will never lose you and their no longer remains condemnation for those that are his.
Remember we didn't choose him, he chose us.

However don't think a person is saved because they professed faith because it is possessing faith that determines if one is saved not professing faith. Many professing faith Christians few possessing faith Christians.
Hence once prayed always saved is the statement we should be attacking not once saved always saved.

Exactly! The quick say a sinners prayer method is 100% unBiblical(I've seen this first hand) It just so happens that many of those who ask the sinner to repeat a prayer happen to believe in eternal security also(my experience seeing this). People are right to reject the sinners prayer, but they lump in eternal security as a false doctrine too. Proper evangelism, and teaching/discipling new converts sound doctrine is something I have found lacking in many of the churches I have attended.

If a lost sinner wants to say a prayer, that should not be discouraged as long as they understand that it is by grace through faith they are saved, not the prayer itself! It's the "repeat after me" sinners prayer that is not Biblical!

 

[notuptome]

What about the statement in James that Faith without works is dead?

Doesn't this imply that the believer must maintain their own salvation by their work?

Absolutely not. Salvation is a gift not a reward for effort. Sanctification is the working process that follows salvation. Believers give account to Christ for what they have done since salvation but are never brought under condemnation ever again.

If one professes to know Christ as Savior and does not exhibit a changed life then they leave those of us who are around them to speculate if they ever trusted Christ. The same can be said of the ones who make great sacrifices and work for the betterment of mankind but do so for their own self gratitude.

Believers walk in newness of life but the walking does not make them believers. It does give evidence that they believe what they claim to believe. Wolves will put on sheep's clothing to deceive but they are never sheep.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

To whom is James written? That will help with the answer. James is a Jewish epistle. No student of Scripture has ever been successful making it a Christian epistle.

By this reasoning then no Christian should bother with the OT as that was a Jewish covenant not a Christian covenant.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Grandpa]

To whom is James written? That will help with the answer. James is a Jewish epistle. No student of Scripture has ever been successful making it a Christian epistle.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Jews are saved differently than everyone else?

There is a different standard for Jews than everyone else?

 

[roaringkitten]

Pardon for the double posts of mine in posts #548 & #549...I was trying to edit the original post.

Don't know what happened!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To whom is James written? That will help with the answer. James is a Jewish epistle. No student of Scripture has ever been successful making it a Christian epistle.

James applies to all people..

One just has to interpret it right.

 

[Grandpa]

Absolutely not. Salvation is a gift not a reward for effort. Sanctification is the working process that follows salvation. Believers give account to Christ for what they have done since salvation but are never brought under condemnation ever again.

If one professes to know Christ as Savior and does not exhibit a changed life then they leave those of us who are around them to speculate if they ever trusted Christ. The same can be said of the ones who make great sacrifices and work for the betterment of mankind but do so for their own self gratitude.

Believers walk in newness of life but the walking does not make them believers. It does give evidence that they believe what they claim to believe. Wolves will put on sheep's clothing to deceive but they are never sheep.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Well, I don't understand.

Isn't that "changed life" you describe the same "faith without works" that James is talking about?

It sounds like you agree with James about works being necessary to maintain salvation.

If not, what is the difference between what you are saying and what James is saying?

 

[notuptome]

Well, I don't understand.

Isn't that "changed life" you describe the same "faith without works" that James is talking about?

It sounds like you agree with James about works being necessary to maintain salvation.

If not, what is the difference between what you are saying and what James is saying?

The effect is not the cause. As is said correlation is not causation.

The cause if the grace of God in our salvation the effect is we walk according to the light of His word not our own wisdom.

There are people all over the world who claim to do good works for God ye they deny Christ. They walk often better than some professing Christians yet they are lost and unredeemed.

The security of the believer is found not in his works but in the love of God. God loves us we don't love God anywhere near like we ought. Gods love is unwavering and unchanging. Our love is wholly untrustworthy. We love ourselves far more than we can love God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[John146]

By this reasoning then no Christian should bother with the OT as that was a Jewish covenant not a Christian covenant.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That's not appropriate reasoning. We are to read and study all Scripture with the understanding of who is the audience. Do you obey all Scripture? Of course not. Why? Because you have the understanding that portions of Scripture are not for you to obey. Know the audience and apply the doctrine taught appropriately.

 

[John146]

James applies to all people..

One just has to interpret it right.

Instead of private interpretation, allow Scripture to say what it means and mean what it says. Can faith alone save? Paul says yes, James says no. Either you cry contradiction, explain it away and privately interpret it, or you hold the understanding that God is dealing with the nation of Israel at a time after the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

There is a reason why the book of James falls after Paul's thirteen epistles to the body of Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Instead of private interpretation, allow Scripture to say what it means and mean what it says. Can faith alone save? Paul says yes, James says no. Either you cry contradiction, explain it away and privately interpret it, or you hold the understanding that God is dealing with the nation of Israel at a time after the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

There is a reason why the book of James falls after Paul's thirteen epistles to the body of Christ.

I do not make up stories and say one part of scripture is not related to me to make a seeming contradiction go away.

I interpret it for what it says.

Paul said we are saved by faith alone, But those who are saved will do the works God created us to do (eph 2: 8-10) James said if I claim that I have faith but do not have the works Paul said I would do(eph 2: 10). Then my faith is dead (no faith at all) thus I need to examine myself. because I am deceived in thinking I have faith. I am not saved, why? Because as paul said, I am saved by faith alone, I am not saved if I do not have faith period. .

Paul spoke to jews to. He spoke to legalistic Jews. James spoke to licentious jews. Same people, Different context.

 

[BrotherJustin]

"James and Paul do not disagree in their teaching regarding salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone while James put emphasis on the fact that genuine faith in Christ produces good works."

This article does a good job of answering the question: Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?