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[Mitspa]

yes but I can truly say that every friend of mine that is gay or whatever (OMG A CHRISTIAN HAS GAY FRIenDS!!) never held it against me in any way the way I do it

And there is a huge difference between how we deal with folks in the world and when the lies of the world are being promoted in the church and being taught as biblical truth. PAUL. Makes this clear as well in the epistles...that few seem to have read. I have many ungodly people in my life as well and I'm bold in my faith and the truth I have been given.. I have challenged many folks in their sin..when I was led by God to do so. ..it's called being led by the Spirit ..not a PC agenda

 

[Mitspa]

By the way..all the very worse sinners love me..but respect me as I respect them...but they know I love them and I love the truth of God..the come to me when the time is right .. not because I have fed them a line of pc nonsense ..but because they know I'm honest and I know the Lord

 

[Mitspa]

Yes.
I also understand that whips were used by Love on animals (oxen and sheep), not humans. (John 2:15)

What? Are u trying to suggest that Jesus did not whip the money changers and drive them out of the Lords house..are you also going to deny that He often used harsh terms with folks in pride? Or that folks was killed and blinded to protect the church? Don't play games with the scriptures ...I'll embarrass you friend

 

[BrotherJustin]

What? Are u trying to suggest that Jesus did not whip the money changers and drive them out of the Lords house..

Yes, that's what I'm suggesting.

Matthew Henry agrees: "He did not make a scourge to chastise the offenders (his punishments are of another nature), but only to drive out the cattle; he aimed no further than at reformation. (2 Co 10:8)

are you also going to deny that He often used harsh terms with folks in pride? Or that folks was killed and blinded to protect the church? Don't play games with the scriptures ...I'll embarrass you friend

Embarrass away. (I love learning more about Scripture.)

 

[coby2]

Did Adam & Eve have a formal ceremony inside a building, and seek the approval or witness of others?

What about when Rebekah went in to Isaac's tent and they became husband and wife by having sex?

What about all God's children who had countless girlfriends who they weren't married to, and even Abraham having sent away all his children from women he never married?

What if that person you shunned co-inhabited with a woman he will be married to (read: registered on paper via the laws of men) and did not have sex with her at all, until a ceremony because they sought to please men by abiding in the laws of men, and not God?

They had a ketubah, a legal document at least in Jesus' time and it was with witnesses. Otherwise they can dump you the next day. That's protection. Just literally living together in a students' home or just a while if possible is no problem. Just not recommendable. We have taken a girl in our home because she had no place to stay and they weren't able to just only live together.

 

[Mitspa]

Yes, that's what I'm suggesting.

Matthew Henry agrees: "He did not make a scourge to chastise the offenders (his punishments are of another nature), but only to drive out the cattle; he aimed no further than at reformation. (2 Co 10:8)



Embarrass away. (I love learning more about Scripture.)

I don't care what u think Matthew Henry says or believes the clear and evident reading of the passages from the gospel accounts is that Christ Jesus drove the money changers out if His Father's house with a whip...and He even killed people to protect the church... for anyone to suggest otherwise is just a rejection of the clear reading of those passages...and shows a real lack of respect for the the truth..Matthew Henry is nothing to me...if he has that attitude towards those passages..I would question his ability altogether

 

[Sirk]

I don't care what u think Matthew Henry says or believes the clear and evident reading of the passages from the gospel accounts is that Christ Jesus drove the money changers out if His Father's house with a whip...and He even killed people to protect the church... for anyone to suggest otherwise is just a rejection of the clear reading of those passages...and shows a real lack of respect for the the truth..Matthew Henry is nothing to me...if he has that attitude towards those passages..I would question his ability altogether

Wait what? Jesus killed people? First I've heard of it.

 

[BrotherJustin]

I don't care what u think Matthew Henry says or believes the clear and evident reading of the passages from the gospel accounts is that Christ Jesus drove the money changers out if His Father's house with a whip...and He even killed people to protect the church... for anyone to suggest otherwise is just a rejection of the clear reading of those passages...and shows a real lack of respect for the the truth..Matthew Henry is nothing to me...if he has that attitude towards those passages..I would question his ability altogether

In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. (John 2:15 NIV)

I care about what Matthew Henry says, since he's authored one of the most widely known and accepted biblical commentaries in existence. If you don't care what he says, I wonder if you care what any commentator has to say. I'm curious as to why you would trust some scribes and translators, but not others.

I guess, with your attitude, you're left with whatever your favorite Bible translation/version says--or, rather, left with your understanding of what it says. I'm supposing yours is the KJV. Why you trust King James and his appointed scribes and translators (scholars) more than you trust more recent scholars is beyond me.

 

[coby2]

Wait what? Jesus killed people? First I've heard of it.

Maybe Ananias and Saphira.

 

[Mitspa]

Wait what? Jesus killed people? First I've heard of it.

Who do you think killed annias and saphira....you think Jesus and the Holy Spirit are in conflict to the will of God?...do you think when Paul blinded folks and turned them over to Satan ..that Jesus was not in full agreement with Paul?

 

[BrotherJustin]

Great article on the topic: Jesus, the Whip, and Justifying Violence

"The use of this text to justify violence (burning heretics, going on crusades, engaging in 'just warfare') has a long history."

 

[Justcallmetinman]

If you say anything about any issue on this forum as it relates to true holiness...it seems there is a certain crowd that will accuse you of hate .... Much like in the PC world we live in ...if you dare to express certain moral biblical principals ...you will be attacked and called all manner of names....while at the same time being given a lecture about how your not suppose to attack or judge folks...its really insane

I agree. This site has many who demonstrate scripture come to life ie end times ,lax holiness attitudes and it seems to be very offensive to mention telling others about Jesus!

Loving the lost is telling them about Jesus atonement and what happens if they turn the gift down.

I wonder how many would save their neighbor from the burning building? It is exactly the same thing but worse! Salvation or lack thereof is ETERNAL.

 

[Mitspa]

In the temple courts he found people selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. (John 2:15 NIV)

I care about what Matthew Henry says, since he's authored one of the most widely known and accepted biblical commentaries in existence. If you don't care what he says, I wonder if you care what any commentator has to say. I'm curious as to why you would trust some scribes and translators, but not others.

I guess, with your attitude, you're left with whatever your favorite Bible translation/version says--or, rather, left with your understanding of what it says. I'm supposing yours is the KJV. Why you trust King James and his appointed scribes and translators (scholars) more than you trust more recent scholars is beyond me.

The NIV is horrible ..the KJV reads he drove out the changers and the animals. .. . .and my point still stands no matter how you try to read it...Christ drove them out with a whip.. no debate about it...any honest person understands the point I'm making

 

[Demi777]

The NIV is horrible ..the KJV reads he drove out the changers and the animals. .. . .and my point still stands no matter how you try to read it...Christ drove them out with a whip.. no debate about it...any honest person understands the point I'm making

dont get started on the NIV
The NIV Exposed

 

[Mitspa]

I guess Jesus just accidently knocked over their tables too?

 

[Justcallmetinman]

It kind of seems few people on here do as I do in looking at things.

I like to break things down into identifiable smaller units, and work from the basics, upward. Most people seem to like to lump everything into one final statement, and make conclusions from there.

For instance, to get it as simple as we can..... Should a person be condemned by us for finding the same sex attractive? NOTHING ELSE! Just start with ONLY one thing at a time, and answer THAT question before moving on to the next simple query... and then the next... and then another question, etc.

Well, should they be?

Rather theatrical approach! Using the word "condemn" is an attempt in demonizing the one who shines a light on certain sins. If you were trying to reason this out,you may have used words that actually apply.
A lost sinners heart condemns himself. Condemning and judging are two different things.

Now someone ignorant of scripture will respond with "pull the log out of your own eye first"

 

[coby2]

The NIV is horrible ..the KJV reads he drove out the changers and the animals. .. . .and my point still stands no matter how you try to read it...Christ drove them out with a whip.. no debate about it...any honest person understands the point I'm making

I somehow always had the idea they weren't hit by the wip, maybe because if that horse ride trainer I had just took her wip and slew on the ground the horses listened perfectly. Maybe you're right. Let's try that in church if we're too lazy to pray. I'm sure that then all of a sudden I would listen.

 

[Justcallmetinman]

I guess Jesus just accidently knocked over their tables too?

This thread has shined a light on some very lax attitudes hasnt it? You are a condemner( implied) and yesterday I found out I act like a pharisee. Who knew right?

 

[Sirk]

Who do you think killed annias and saphira....you think Jesus and the Holy Spirit are in conflict to the will of God?...do you think when Paul blinded folks and turned them over to Satan ..that Jesus was not in full agreement with Paul?

God doesn't kill steal or destroy. Satan does that. God can remove his protection but to suggest that God actively killed those two is quite the stretch.

 

[BrotherJustin]

The NIV is horrible ..the KJV reads he drove out the changers and the animals. .. . .and my point still stands no matter how you try to read it...Christ drove them out with a whip.. no debate about it...any honest person understands the point I'm making

Forget it, man.

I guess Jesus just accidently knocked over their tables too?

Yeah, just forget it.