The essential characteristics of the Biblical Jesus

[Bowman]

so who is persecuting Israel and who chopping off heads of Christians. satans minions ? who is leading them and who is trying to thwart the word of God?

You've gone off the deep end with your search button.

Half the scriptures you cut-n-pasted occurred BEFORE The Cross.

Remember...Satan was bound AT The Cross...

 

[roaringkitten]

2 Cor 5.10 mentions absolutely nothing about the Righteous standing before the judgment seat and being judged.

It actually fits with the rest of scripture which mandates that ONLY the unrighteous are standing before God, being judged.

The righteous are believers Bowman. Might want to refresh your memory with Romans chapter 4:

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

You're confusing 2 Cor 5:10 with the great white throne judgment of Revelation chapter 20.

 

[RobbyEarl]

You've gone off the deep end with your search button.

Half the scriptures you cut-n-pasted occurred BEFORE The Cross.

Remember...Satan was bound AT The Cross...

But what about the other half they are still bible are they not. Yes satan was defeated at the cross i have no argument with that. Nor will I call you a fool for it seems that you love God and that is the beginning of wisdom. So you know hebrew and greek and are highly educated. It makes no matter, to say that satan is bound and can do nothing is very wrong, He is active at work at this moment. You will say it's his minions and that is so but under what direction? I know what you are saying that the cross defeated satan but, he is still working and active. Just look at the world today. I have shown by scripture that he is still active if he was bound he could do nothing.

 

[slave]

Since Satan is presently bound, our ever-present enemy are the free-ranging demons.

Islam is a safe-house for demons, as they have mis-interpreted their scripture set, and have turned it into a twisted carnal nightmare.

Islam represents what can happen when ignorance gets behind scriptural mis-interpretation.

Be a Berean, and study your scriptures..

First you asked me to represent the "believe" and "receive" concept back there so let me answer that first:

"Yet to all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, he gave the right to become children of God." (John 1:12)

Let me add:

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9-10).

Which results in:

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes in him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." (John 5:24).

In judgement at the end of our lives in heaven, if we remain in him and His word remains in us here on earth from the time we were guaranteed Salvation by receiving Jesus' victory to be our own by graces offering, we already know Gods verdict to come, but must live it out until it comes, loving others as Christ loved us, and in seeking God and obeying Him for His purposes.. If we accept God in this way thru Christ, it is a sealed result during that final Judgement, yet what is not known yet is His blessings, which we will learn then what he has found fit for our life there in another form and honored revelation..Thus, God wants us to know we are secure on earth as we are in heaven, yet still we are all to go thru this, "just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgement." (Heb. 9:27).

Judgement in that moment will be an exciting thing of surprise and wonder for His Saints whereas for those who did not run the race to win it; living outside of Christ will be surprised followed by terrorized in their fate of hope lost and eternal damnation to come. Hence, the term Judgement can have different references to Gods evaluations.

Now on the Satan is bound stuff, Satan is not bound except by God in terms of needing permission to be the ruler of this world in its specific applications. "The Lord said to Satan, very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger. Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord." (Job 1:12). "I will no longer talk much with you, for the Ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me." (John 14:30). Satan is the world ruler and has means to subject Christians to temptations, which is our Spiritual warfare, but in heaven all of Satans toils will be put asunder. We know that we are of God, and the whole world is in the power of the evil one. (1 John 5:19).

Bowman, I must confess I am not confused in Scripture but I am confused on what you stand for. Are you preaching against the wrong doctrine of Islam, or are you preaching the faults of God's Word? Or are you saying both are right if you see it thru your eyes, and compromise on both? I feel your antagonistic demeanor which reminds me of Scripture that says: "Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." (John 13:34); Do not judge or you will be judged, for in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. (Matthew 7"12); "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven. (Luke 6:37).

 

[slave]

Dwell upon that instead of scripture....nice....

- "For how can you say to your brother, let me take the speck out of your eye, and behold, the log is in your own eye? (Matthew 7:4). You mean like that?

 

[slave]

Scripture says that Satan's power is now through his demons....NOT Himself, directly...and thank God for that!

How is it, that the demons are your focus when the chain of command is that Satan rules them and us, outside of Christ? How does that bind Satan outside of God's rule of omission? Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. (John 13:16).

 

[Bowman]

The righteous are believers Bowman. Might want to refresh your memory with Romans chapter 4:

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

You're confusing 2 Cor 5:10 with the great white throne judgment of Revelation chapter 20.

And........?

 

[Bowman]

But what about the other half they are still bible are they not. Yes satan was defeated at the cross i have no argument with that. Nor will I call you a fool for it seems that you love God and that is the beginning of wisdom. So you know hebrew and greek and are highly educated. It makes no matter, to say that satan is bound and can do nothing is very wrong, He is active at work at this moment. You will say it's his minions and that is so but under what direction? I know what you are saying that the cross defeated satan but, he is still working and active. Just look at the world today. I have shown by scripture that he is still active if he was bound he could do nothing.

What you have done is copy-paste in the results from a word search.

Pick one of your sciptures and defend it....that way we will know if you understand what you paste...

 

[Bowman]

Failure to exegete = failure to understand

First you asked me to represent the "believe" and "receive" concept back there so let me answer that first:

"Yet to all who received Him, to those who believed in His name, he gave the right to become children of God." (John 1:12)

Let me add:

"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9-10).

Which results in:

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes in him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." (John 5:24).

In judgement at the end of our lives in heaven, if we remain in him and His word remains in us here on earth from the time we were guaranteed Salvation by receiving Jesus' victory to be our own by graces offering, we already know Gods verdict to come, but must live it out until it comes, loving others as Christ loved us, and in seeking God and obeying Him for His purposes.. If we accept God in this way thru Christ, it is a sealed result during that final Judgement, yet what is not known yet is His blessings, which we will learn then what he has found fit for our life there in another form and honored revelation..Thus, God wants us to know we are secure on earth as we are in heaven, yet still we are all to go thru this, "just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgement." (Heb. 9:27).

Hebrews 9.27

και καθ οσον αποκειται τοις ανθρωποις απαξ αποθανειν μετα δε τουτο κρισις

kai kath' hoson apokeitai tois anthrōpois hapax apothanein meta de touto krisis

And as it is reserved to men once to die, and after this, Judgment;


The key word in this verse is ‘apokeitai’ which means ‘to reserve as award or recompense, to put away for safe keeping, hope, preservation’. As such, this term is attached in the context of physical death in which men die only once.

This is the First Resurrection. One death, not two.

It is this one physical death in which the Heavenly reward is given to the righteous – eternal life.

The verse goes on to say that only after this (i.e. the First Resurrection), there is Judgment….and….as we know, Judgment is relegated only to those who are not written in the Lamb’s Book of Life….sound familiar?

It’s the same pattern over, and over….


The First Resurrection = no judgment & life

The Second Resurrection = judgment & death


In fact, to confirm that the one death equates to the ones entering Heaven, and that no judgment is cast against them, we have the identical word ‘apokeitai’ used in its only other place in the NT, as thus…

For the rest, the crown of righteousness is reserved (apokeitai) for me, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me in that Day, and not only to me, but also to all the ones loving His appearance. (2 Tim 4.8)


Again, the usage here is in direct reference to the Elect, the saved ones, the ones entering Heaven, the one’s written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

Observe that God, as Judge (noun), does not pass judgment upon His Elect, but merely reserves His chosen on the Resurrection Day.



And…again here…we have the inflected form ‘apokeimenēn’ directed towards the Elect in Heaven, as the subject…


Because of the hope being laid up (apokeimenēn) for you in Heaven, which you heard before in the Word of the truth of the gospel, (Col 1.5)

 

[Bowman]

How is it, that the demons are your focus when the chain of command is that Satan rules them and us, outside of Christ? How does that bind Satan outside of God's rule of omission? Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. (John 13:16).

There are no scriptural recordings of Satan possessing anyone, believer or not, after The Cross.

Only demon possession is mentioned after The Cross.

This is our first clue that Satan has already been bound.

The second clue is the plethora of scriptures that state the Satan has been rendered impotent.

We are in the '1K earthly reign of Christ'....and it began at The Cross.

The fact that you deny scripture merely gives Satan the power that he has always wanted...but most assuredly does not now have...

 

[LOLOKGal]

Re: Keep the ignorance flowing...

1 Peter 5.8
νηψατε γρηγορησατε ο αντιδικος υμων διαβολος ως λεων ωρυομενος περιπατει ζητων καταπιειν

nēpsate grēgorēsate ho antidikos hymōn diabolos hōs leōn ōryomenos peripatei zētōn tina katapiein

Be sober-minded, watch, the adversary devil of you walks about as a roaring lion seeking whom to devour;

I'm just curious where you're getting you're getting your information referring to the actual Greek that was used. As I go through your post, it doesn't always match up to what I have.

For instance, in this verse, I have:
Νήψατε γρηγορήσατε ὅτι ὁ ἀντίδικος ὑμῶν διάβολος ὡς λέων ὠρυόμενος περιπατεῖ ζητῶν τινα καταπίῃ

nēphō grēgoreō hoti hymōn antidikos diabolos hōs ōryomai leōn peripateō zēteō tis katapinō

 

[LOLOKGal]

Re: Keep the ignorance flowing...

I'm just curious where you're getting you're getting your information referring to the actual Greek that was used. As I go through your post, it doesn't always match up to what I have.

Sorry about that typo, I just noticed it. It should read:

I'm just curious where you're getting your information referring to the actual Greek that was used...

 

[Dan_473]

why are you guys wasting your time?

This man has more interest in the koran than the Bible...

and is in love with the sound of his own voice.......not God's.

most of Bowman's ideas here seem outlandish to me... but just in case he's actually discovered a great way convert muslims to christianity, I was brainstorming some ways he could have his ideas tested.

this morning I found out how to submit papers to the Journal of Islamic Studies, which seems to deal with these kinds of subjects.

the instructions are here:
Oxford Journals | Arts & Humanities | Journal of Islamic Studies | Information for Authors

*******************************************
Be ye kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Jesus sake forgave you.
Amen to that!

 

[Dan_473]

Dan, you keep asking him for links to prove his assertions(look at all the pages), so have many other CC users and he just keeps going around the merry go round with us. He laughs, mocks and makes fun of anyone who dares question his "holy grail discovery". He still cannot prove Muhammad, allah, from the Bible only. One doesn't win Muslims to Christ by going to their book. They are won by going to the Scriptures! The Bible says:

"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39

It doesn't say "search the Koran" or another outside source, it says search the Scriptures! You want to show a Muslim Christ? He's in the Scriptures! There is not one example in the Word of any apostle or Jesus, using any other book than the Scriptures to preach the truth! For example:

"And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures" Acts 17:2

Did he reason with them out of a heathen book? No! Us Christians need to model our outreach according to the Word of God. Paul preached Christ from the Scriptures, so should we, no exceptions!

I agree that the bible is the best thing when talking to the people I'm likely to meet here in the usa. and of course, the bible is the final authority.

just consider, that later on in acts 17, Paul talks with the athenian experts, and uses a quote from one of their poets.

 

[Bowman]

Re: Keep the ignorance flowing...

I'm just curious where you're getting you're getting your information referring to the actual Greek that was used. As I go through your post, it doesn't always match up to what I have.

For instance, in this verse, I have:
Νήψατε γρηγορήσατε ὅτι ὁ ἀντίδικος ὑμῶν διάβολος ὡς λέων ὠρυόμενος περιπατεῖ ζητῶν τινα καταπίῃ

nēphō grēgoreō hoti hymōn antidikos diabolos hōs ōryomai leōn peripateō zēteō tis katapinō

It looks like you are using a Textus Receptus manuscript version.

I usually use Westcott Hort and/or the Majority Text...

 

[Bowman]

most of Bowman's ideas here seem outlandish to me... but just in case he's actually discovered a great way convert muslims to christianity, I was brainstorming some ways he could have his ideas tested.

this morning I found out how to submit papers to the Journal of Islamic Studies, which seems to deal with these kinds of subjects.

the instructions are here:
Oxford Journals | Arts & Humanities | Journal of Islamic Studies | Information for Authors

*******************************************
Be ye kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Jesus sake forgave you.
Amen to that!

Intriguing idea...except, you must sign-away copyrights, and reveal your identity.

 

[Dan_473]

Dan, you keep asking him for links to prove his assertions(look at all the pages), so have many other CC users and he just keeps going around the merry go round with us. He laughs, mocks and makes fun[...]

and yes, I agree that it's very possible Bowman is just trolling.

 

[BrotherJustin]

why are you guys wasting your time?

This man has more interest in the koran than the Bible...

and is in love with the sound of his own voice.......not God's.

I don't consider this conversation a waste of my time.

I am confident of who i am in Christ and nothing anyone presents can ever shake my foundation.

I am here to learn from those who are further along on their path of life than i...

...and i believe, though he may seem stubborn, Bowman is not immune to learning from those of us who aren't as far along as he may be on the path that is life.

 

[Dan_473]

How are you qualified to make that assertion, Dan?

you appeal to differences between your translation and the widely-used translations.

one needs to be an expert in a language in order to know if other experts (or alleged experts) are translating it right... to me, that's obvious... what qualifies me, then, is common sense.


I haven't seen anyone here analyze your assertions about the grammer and syntax of koranic passages in depth... so, it's not happening here on cc.

 

[Dan_473]

Intriguing idea...except, you must sign-away copyrights, and reveal your identity.

yes, sign-away copyrights, and reveal your identity... why is that bad?