Baptisms

[CEF]

Brothers & Sisters,

I have been struggling with the topic baptism. How many baptisms are there? I have heard of two different baptisms. Can somebody please clear this up for me? Is there both water baptism and a baptism of the Holy Spirit? Please provide scriptures!

 

[roaringkitten]

There's a quite lengthy thread already about this topic-here

Do what the Berean Christians did in Acts 17 and confirm all things said with the Word of God, that is the most important advice I can give you!

"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11

Remember, only the blood of the Lamb can wash sins awa(yRev 1:5), not water baptism!

 

[mailmandan]

Brothers & Sisters,

I have been struggling with the topic baptism. How many baptisms are there? I have heard of two different baptisms. Can somebody please clear this up for me? Is there both water baptism and a baptism of the Holy Spirit? Please provide scriptures!

In Matthew 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Again, in Acts 1:5, we read - for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. *TWO SEPARATE BAPTISMS.

People can get confused by Ephesians 4:5, in which Paul mentioned ONE baptism, but Paul did not mean that there is only one baptism that exists such as water baptism but not Spirit baptism or Spirit baptism but not water baptism.

*There is only ONE baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is SPIRIT baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. *Also see John 4:10,14; 7:37 for the word drink(s).

Notice that Cornelius and his household received the gift of the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:43-47 BEFORE they received water baptism AFTERWARDS in verse 48. *Notice in verse 47 - "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" *TWO SEPARATE BAPTISMS.

Referring back to the events that took place in Acts chapter 10, Peter stated in Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" *This was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47).

 

[Chuckt]

Brothers & Sisters,

I have been struggling with the topic baptism. How many baptisms are there? I have heard of two different baptisms. Can somebody please clear this up for me? Is there both water baptism and a baptism of the Holy Spirit? Please provide scriptures!

What are the seven baptisms mentioned in the Bible, and what do they mean?

 

[PurerInHeart]

Just as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are one God, there is one baptism. Acts 2:38 says be baptized and you will receive the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Word, and the Word and the Spirit work together. Jesus says if you've seen Him you've seen the Father- They are all one. When you get baptized into Christ, you are in Christ and the Holy Spirit is in you. (Read John 17:21). Baptism of the Holy Spirit and water baptism is the same. Now you as a person are capable of many tasks, not just one task, right? Well in the same way, the Holy Spirit can enable some people to do different things, but everyone who has the Holy Spirit is marked for heaven.

 

[Chuckt]

Just as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are one God, there is one baptism. Acts 2:38 says be baptized and you will receive the Holy Spirit. Jesus is the Word, and the Word and the Spirit work together. Jesus says if you've seen Him you've seen the Father- They are all one. When you get baptized into Christ, you are in Christ and the Holy Spirit is in you. (Read John 17:21). Baptism of the Holy Spirit and water baptism is the same. Now you as a person are capable of many tasks, not just one task, right? Well in the same way, the Holy Spirit can enable some people to do different things, but everyone who has the Holy Spirit is marked for heaven.

Not so fast.
Acts 2:38 is a causal / resultant.

Answer: Acts 2:38, “And Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.’” As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches by first filtering it through what we know the Bible teaches on the subject at hand. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation. For more information, please visit our webpage on "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

Why, then, do some come to the conclusion that we must be baptized in order to be saved? Often, the discussion of whether or not this passage teaches baptism is required for salvation centers around the Greek word eis that is translated “for” in this passage. Those who hold to the belief that baptism is required for salvation are quick to point to this verse and the fact that it says “be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins,” assuming that the word translated “for” in this verse means “in order to get.” However, in both Greek and English, there are many possible usages of the word “for.”

As an example, when one says “Take two aspirin for your headache,” it is obvious to everybody that it does not mean “take two aspirin in order to get your headache,” but instead to “take two aspirin because you already have a headache.” There are three possible meanings of the word “for” that might fit the context of Acts 2:38: 1--“in order to be, become, get, have, keep, etc.,” 2—“because of, as the result of,” or 3—“with regard to.” Since any one of the three meanings could fit the context of this passage, additional study is required in order to determine which one is correct.

And what do you do about this verse:

Galatians 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

If the Holy Spirit came from baptism that Paul wouldn't have asked whether it was the law or by believing through faith in Galatians 3:2!

When / How do we receive the Holy Spirit?

Does Acts 2:38 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?

 

[wattie]

Full immersion water baptism- after someone has received eternal life, they can be immersed as a picture of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Babies getting christened doesnt' count... people getting 'sprinkled' doesn't count. Full immersion of saved believers.

Now.. in Acts you see the church at Jerusalem being empowered. This is the Holy Spirit coming as the Administrator of His churches.

Before this.. Jesus and His disciples were the first church. Jesus ascended later.. then sent His Holy Spirit to administer to His churches, starting with Jerusalem.

One form of baptism.. is for the individual. This is the full immersion in water baptism of saved believers.

The other happened to groups.. who became churches. Groups. Nothing to do with receiving eternal life.. nothing to do with immersion in water.

(Act 18:24) And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.


(Act 18:25) This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.


(Act 18:26) And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.


(Act 18:27) And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:


(Act 18:28) For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,


Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Here is already saved people.. who hadn't received the Holy Spirit.. how can that be?

That can only be if they were already indwelled by the Holy Spirit individually.. and hadn't received the Holy Spirit to be with them 'in the midst' as a church. --- Holy Spirit empowering a church 'Holy Spirit baptism'

Are you going to call believers called 'disciples' people who hadn't received Christ individually? Surely not!


Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

These people had been baptised by Apollos.. who didn't have the authority. It was as if Apollos was baptising in the name of John and not Jesus.


Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.


Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. - full immersion water baptism

 

[PhilWyc]

Brothers & Sisters,

I have been struggling with the topic baptism. How many baptisms are there? I have heard of two different baptisms. Can somebody please clear this up for me? Is there both water baptism and a baptism of the Holy Spirit? Please provide scriptures!

This topic has been challenging me too, for I am yet to be baptized and I'm looking for the light

 

[jb]

Brothers & Sisters,

I have been struggling with the topic baptism. How many baptisms are there? I have heard of two different baptisms. Can somebody please clear this up for me? Is there both water baptism and a baptism of the Holy Spirit? Please provide scriptures!

You can find a few thoughts Here on baptism in water, and Here you can find a few thoughts on the baptism in the Holy spirit...

QED!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

*There is only ONE baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is SPIRIT baptism, not water baptism.

Peter commanded the multitude at Pentecost to be water baptized to receive forgiveness of sins, not spirit baptized. Then they would receive the gift of the holy spirit. We were justified by Christ's death, not his resurrection.

 

[oldhermit]

By oldhermit

I. What is Baptism?

The word baptize comes from the Greek word βαπτίζω – bap-tid'-zo. This is a verb meaning to dip, plunge, or immerse. The following definition is taken from the Thayer's Greek Lexicon, 1981 edition. “To cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water.” When the word baptize is used in conjunction with the directional preposition εἰς - meaning into, it stresses the direction into which the immersion takes us. For example: In Matthew 28:19, the apostles were charged by Jesus to baptize disciples 'into' the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. Thus, baptism places one 'into' the possession of God. In Galatians 3:27, Paul tells the Christians at Galatia that having been baptized 'into' Jesus they are thereby clothed with Christ.

Baptism then serves as a connecting agent that unites us with Jesus. In 1Corinthians 12:13, Paul says that we were baptized 'into' one body. Baptism then is what supplies one entrance into the Church – the body of Christ being the Church. In Acts 2: 38, Peter says that baptism is 'into' the remission of sin. Immersion into Jesus Christ then, is a transference of one into the removal of sin.

II. Baptism is a Revealed Symbol
The idea of revealed symbols is a subject that we will discuss in another study but, for now, I think it is important that we understand the function of baptism as a revealed symbol. Symbols always represent something beyond themselves. A revealed symbol is an image or a representation that is provided to man by God to help him understand the significance of an action, a behavior, or an object and serves to connect the symbol to the unseen reality that is represented by the symbol. As an act, the symbol of baptism is simply the complete immersion of an individual in water. As a representation however, baptism creates a picture of something that is much greater than the physical act itself.

A. In Romans 6: 3- 6, Paul reveals to us the representations connected to the act of immersion. Immersion is a picture of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. “Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;” When one submits to the act of immersion, one is personally engaging in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus. In baptism one is:

1. United with the death of Christ. “All of us who have been baptized into Christ have been baptized into his death.”
2. United with the burial of Christ. “We are therefore buried with him by baptism into death.”
3. United in the resurrection of Christ. “We are also raised in the likeness of his resurrection.”
This is very striking imagery. By going down into the water, one is participating in the death of Christ. As one is immersed under the water, one is participating in the burial of Christ. As one is raised out of the water, one is participating in the resurrection of Christ. Immersion then is a symbol that connects us to the cross as we are crucified with Christ. It is the blood of Jesus that saves men from sin and Paul explains that immersion is the symbol that connects us to the cross. This is the only place one may come into contact with the blood. It is here that “our old self is crucified with him that our body of sin might be done away with.” It is also important to understand that baptism is a symbol of obligation on the part of the individual for Paul goes on to say in verse six, “that we should no longer be slaves to sin.” We are obligated to leave behind us the sinful behaviors of our past and to no longer engage in those things because we are now dead to sin. Our obligation now is to walk a new life. In verse 13, Paul charges us not to “go on presenting the members of our bodies to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those who are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness.” As such, we are now to consider ourselves “slaves of righteousness,” verse 18.

B. In Colossians 2:11-13, Paul links the idea of circumcision (which is also a revealed symbol) to the symbol of baptism. “In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your bwhole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. When you were dead in your transgressions and the circumcision of your flesh. He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions.” Just as fleshly circumcision is the removal of the foreskin from the flesh, immersion represents the removal of sin from the individual. This is accomplished by God in the act of baptism as an act of “faith in the working of God who raised him from the dead.” Before one is baptized, one is dead in sin. Immersion represents a change in one's spiritual status. “He made you alive together with him having forgiven all your transgressions.” There is much more to learn regarding baptism as a revealed symbol but this will suffice for now. For now it is only important that we introduce the basics of the idea.

III. What Does God Accomplish for Us in the Act of Baptism?
A. God takes away our sin, Acts 2:28; 22:16, Romans 6:3, and Colossians 2:11. God removes that which prevents us from being reunited with God.
B. God brings us into Christ, Romans 6:3-6. This makes us his possession.
C. God clothes us with Christ, Galatians 3:27. We are now able to share in his righteousness.
D. God adds us to the body of Christ, 1Corinthians 12:13. He makes us part of a body of fellowship that God has called his people.
E. God makes us a new creature in Christ, Romans 6:3-21, Colossians 2:11-13. He has given us new life by destroying the old man of sin and recreating us in the image of God.
F. God frees us from the bondage of sin, Romans 6:3-21. We are now privileged to be servants of righteous and of the Most High God. We no longer have to be held in bondage to the sin that once enslaved us.
G. God saves us and gives us a clean conscience, 1Peter 3:18-21. We no longer have to be tormented in our minds because God has saved us from the sin that plagued our hearts.

IV. What is it that Saves a Person?
There is a variety of elements the Bible speaks of as being part of the salvation process. These include:
A. Faith, “For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” Ephesians 2:8.
B. Belief, “And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, and your house.” Acts 16:31.
C. Confession, “For with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” Romans 10:10.
D. Baptism, “The like figure unto which even baptism does also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:” 1Peter 3:2.
E. Hope, “For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man sees, why does he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.” Romans 8:24-25.
F. Grace, “For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” Ephesians 2:8.
G. The gospel, “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also you have received, and in which you stand; By which also you are saved, if you keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless you have believed in vain.” 1Corinthians. 15:1-2.
H. And even fear, “and others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.” Jude 23.

It is not intended that anyone should choose one of these elements and disregard the others. One cannot for instance, choose to only believe without any regard for confessing Jesus as Lord and Christ and declare himself saved. One cannot simply choose to be baptized and disregard faith and declare himself saved. Jesus said, “man lives by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.” Matthew 4:4. Faith, belief, confession, baptism, hope, grace and fear all have their divinely appointed function within the framework of ones' salvation. To disregard or to marginalize the importance of any one these elements represents a disregard for what God tells us in scripture. Any one of these alone will save no one. The exercise of all of them will save anyone. God has ordained all of these things to work together so man can “...be reconciled to God. For he has made him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” 2Corinthians 5:21-22. We must remember that God offers salvation to man God's own terms and not ours. If we choose to deviate from the terms and conditions which God has provided we can not hope to receive the benefits that are connected to them.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

When Jesus came to John (a Levite priest) at Jordan he didn't say that water baptism wasn't necessary because spirit baptism was all that mattered, but instead he said it must be done to fulfill all righteousness. IMO he was referring to the pattern in the old covenant in which every priest was commissioned for service by first being immersed in water at the door of the temple and then being anointed with oil (which symbolizes spiritual anointing, i.e. baptism). Notice in the verses below that Christ was baptized at the 'door' of heaven like the high priest was commissioned at the door of the tabernacle.

And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water. ... Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour [it] upon his head, and anoint him. Exodus 29:4, 7

​Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John in order to be [water] baptized by him. But John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” But Jesus answered [and] said to him, “Permit [it] now, for in this way it is right for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he permitted him.

Now [after he] was baptized, Jesus immediately went up from the water, and behold, the heavens opened to him and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming upon him. And behold, [there was] a voice from heaven saying, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:13-17​

All new covenant believers are priests of GOD, so water baptism seems to be the method that GOD has authorized for believers to be commissioned into his service by following this same pattern of being washed by a 'priest' (baptized into forgiveness of sins in the name, i.e., authority, of Christ), then anointed by GOD (receive the holy spirit).

Therefore let all the house of Israel know beyond a doubt, that God has made him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified!” ​Now [when they] heard [this], they were pierced to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “What should we do, men [and] brothers?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be [water] baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and [then] you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:36-38​

 

[mailmandan]

Peter commanded the multitude at Pentecost to be water baptized to receive forgiveness of sins, not spirit baptized. Then they would receive the gift of the holy spirit. We were justified by Christ's death, not his resurrection.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis. *Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

*In Acts 10:43, Peter said - ..whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. *What happened to baptism? Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47 - this was referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So the only logical conclusion *when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture* is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.

You're simply twisting the word to suit your own agenda. The text very obviously says to be baptized upon the name of Jesus into remission of sins. The more you persist in this, the more I'm becoming convinced that you are teaching rebellion against the word of GOD.

 

[mailmandan]

You're simply twisting the word to suit your own agenda. The text very obviously says to be baptized upon the name of Jesus into remission of sins. The more you persist in this, the more I'm becoming convinced that you are teaching rebellion against the word of GOD.

I am simply harmonizing Scripture with Scripture, not twisting the word. By your biased interpretation of Acts 2:38, you negate Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9. Now show me how you twist Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9 in order to make these passages of Scripture "conform" to your biased interpretation of Acts 2:38. SCRIPTURE MUST HARMONIZE WITH SCRIPTURE or else we have a contradiction.

"Works salvationists" teach rebellion against the word of God.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I am simply harmonizing Scripture with Scripture, not twisting the word. By your biased interpretation of Acts 2:38, you negate Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9. Now show me how you twist Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9 in order to make these passages of Scripture "conform" to your biased interpretation of Acts 2:38. SCRIPTURE MUST HARMONIZE WITH SCRIPTURE or else we have a contradiction.

"Works salvationists" teach rebellion against the word of God.

Your arguments are very weak.

The omission of water baptism in Acts 3:19 is not proof that it is not required because faith comes first, then obedience. The men in Acts 2 had already demonstrated faith (We're guilty. What do we do now?), but those in Acts 3 had not.

The exception to a rule doesn't disprove that rule. Cornelius and his house receiving the spirit before water baptism was obviously the exception to the rule (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9). IMO GOD did it that way to convince Peter's doubting mind, because at that point Peter could barely stand to be in the same house with gentiles, much less authorize them to be water baptized into the commonwealth of Israel. Furthermore, receiving the holy spirit doesn't really mean anything because anyone can be anointed with the holy spirit. Both Judas and King Saul were anointed with the holy spirit, and the latter was so overcome by the spirit that he stripped naked and prophesied for an entire day. This was an unrepentant man who was trying to kill the anointed king, David.

 

[Grace777x70]

QUOTE: " receiving the holy spirit doesn't really mean anything ...."

My goodness - this statement is so very telling! Lord grant this man repentance we ask in the Name of Jesus our Lord so that he will come to the knowledge of the truth and escape from the snare of the enemy. 2 Timothy 2:25-26

2 Timothy 2:24-26 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
[SUP]25 [/SUP] with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
[SUP]26 [/SUP] and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

 

[roaringkitten]

You're simply twisting the word to suit your own agenda. The text very obviously says to be baptized upon the name of Jesus into remission of sins. The more you persist in this, the more I'm becoming convinced that you are teaching rebellion against the word of GOD.

Kind of like you twist the word "grace" and say we are not saved by grace.

Technically, we're not saved by faith or grace either; we're saved by GOD. So really it's pointless to play these word games. Just like faith, work is necessary because without it faith is dead. So work is not the issue, its motivation is.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Eph 2:8-9

Eph 2:8-9 very obviously says we are saved by grace, but you must twist the truth to suit your own agenda. You are the one teaching rebellion against the Word of God. And not to mention, you teach salvation by works which is damnable heresy!

 

[mailmandan]

Your arguments are very weak.

My arguments are very strong.

The omission of water baptism in Acts 3:19 is not proof that it is not required because faith comes first, then obedience.

We are saved through repentance/faith and not by obedience/works which follow and are produced out of faith.

The men in Acts 2 had already demonstrated faith (We're guilty. What do we do now?), but those in Acts 3 had not.

Even though these Jews were pierced or cut to the heart, which means they were emotionally pierced through, psychologically pricked, emotionally stunned, at this point in Acts 2:37, their "belief" equated to "acknowledging they were guilty of crucifying the Messiah," but that is not saving belief/faith in Christ yet. This is why they still needed to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to become saved, as we see in Acts 11:17 - they received the Holy Spirit when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.. BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:43-47). So we see they repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. God had granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life - vs. 18.

In Acts 16:30, the question was asked, "what must I do to be saved?" The answer is Acts 16:31 was not get water baptized and you will be saved or accomplish a list of works and you will be saved. The answer was, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.." They believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and received the Holy Spirit in Acts 11:17 and were saved (as we see in Acts 16:31) BEFORE water baptism (as we see in Acts 10:43-47).

The exception to a rule doesn't disprove that rule.

The exception to a rule? Let the twisting begin!

Cornelius and his house receiving the spirit before water baptism was obviously the exception to the rule (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9).

Absolutely false! We clearly see the rule in Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18 and in Acts 15:7-9, we see further proof of this. Acts 15:7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

*Their hearts were purified by faith, that is faith in Christ. Their hearts were purified the moment that they placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ for salvation BEFORE they were water baptized. You cannot seem to grasp this DEEPER faith that trusts exclusively in Jesus Christ for salvation. *This also explains why you have so much faith in "water and works."

IMO GOD did it to convince Peter's doubting mind, because at that point Peter could barely stand to be in the same house with gentiles, much less authorize them to be water baptized into the commonwealth of Israel. Furthermore, receiving the holy spirit doesn't really mean anything because anyone can be anointed with the holy spirit.

Speaking in tongues showed the Jewish believers that the Gentiles had received the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:45-47), were acceptable to God AND were saved. *Lost unbelievers have not received the gift of the Holy Spirit. *See 1 Corinthians 12. These Gentiles clearly received THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT (Acts 10:45) *compare with Acts 2:38 - ..THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT ​and not simply some anointing from the OT. Your argument is a desperate attempt to get around the truth.

Both Judas and King Saul were anointed with the holy spirit, and the latter was so overcome by the spirit that he stripped naked and prophesied for an entire day.

Yet they did not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit UNDER THE NEW COVENANT and were not sealed in Christ unto/for the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30).

Before Cornelius and his household were water baptized, they already "received" the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:45-47; 11:17,18). They were clearly saved.

Romans 8:9 - But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. If one has the Holy Spirit they "belong" to Christ. To belong to Christ does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of Cornelius and his household before they were water baptized.

Galatians 4:6 - Because they are sons, God sent the Holy Spirit into their heart's whereby they can now rightly refer to God as "Abba! Father!" This could only describe the condition of one who is a saved believer - such was the case of Cornelius and his household before they were water baptized.

1 John 4:13 - Because they had received the gift of the Holy Spirit, they abided in God and God abided in them. To abide in God and to have God abide in you does not describe the condition of a lost unbeliever but a saved believer - such was the case of Cornelius and his household before they were water baptized.

 

[garee]

Hi CEF

I would think searching for its beginning or foundation as to its purpose and intent can make a great study . It’s one of those things as an earlier believer that out of curiosity caused me to ponder as to when water baptism began? Seeing it was accepted as an ongoing doctrine when John the Baptist came on the scene.. Not a new testament doctrine with no root.

A good understanding of how the ceremonial ordinances that pertained to the flesh are used I believe is necessary to get a what I believe a proper understanding of that spiritual principle. If we miss the understanding how and why carnal ordinances are used I believe chaos and confusion will follow.

Ultimately one work of faith, in respect to the faith of Christ, our Lord ....to show us he is not served by human hands. It is important that we do not miss the work of faith is in respect to the operation of God and not in respect to human hands.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Two baptisms. The actual not seen, eternal, and the demonstration as that seen (evaporates) the ceremonial .
The eternal one not seen, therefore not done with human hands, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We could say of the baptism as a cleansing fire, seeing it purifies our hearts by a work of the faith of God..

The same one baptism that the scripture accredits as generated by and through the p operation of one Lord, one work of faith by which we are given a new purified heart as to the born again conversion , we could say by the water of the word.

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith (work) of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And the other of the flesh, the temporal as that seen.

Lev 8:6 And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water. (preparation for the priesthood )

This is a continuation of an old testament ceremonial law that was used to introduce a new priest into the priesthood as that which is necessary but as a shadow offers no saving grace. And did not mean the one who performed the ceremonial law has received the Baptism of the Spirit .Like all of the ceremonial purifying laws shadows of that not seen the eternal.

The ceremonial law spoken of in John 3 was in regard to the beginning of the temporal as that seen found in Leviticus 8.

Joh 3:25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.