I keep hearing all this debate about how homosexuality is sin and how it isn't sin. But don't they know that Jesus fulfilled the law? So the old law of sin and death in Leviticus 18:22 no longer applies. It has been done away with. Stop subjecting people to this false teaching that we have to be bound to slavery under the law. If a homosexual couple wants to participate in the final act of love then so be it. Why should we condemn them for their love? If they are led by the Spirit to work this act of love who are we to deny the ruling of the Spirit?
Homosexuality isn't sin
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We could argue that Leviticus no longer applies but we find teaching against homosexuality in the new testament as well.
The Spirit would never lead gays to have sex.
Homosexuality is a sin for two reasonss:1) unnatural sex and 2) fornication.
Even if the first was allowed by God, the second would not be as it falls outside the scope of marriage.
The Spirit would never lead gays to have sex.
Homosexuality is a sin for two reasonss:1) unnatural sex and 2) fornication.
Even if the first was allowed by God, the second would not be as it falls outside the scope of marriage.
Why would the Spirit not approve of their loving union? Christ's law was Love. And we are under Christ's Law - not the law of sin and death. That old law no longer applies here. Why would the New Testament teach against homosexuality? Paul wrote that if something didn't offend another's conscience then we can do it. Don't you see? Why can't a homosexual couple get married? Then it wouldn't be fornicating as you say. I pitty people that condemn others by the old law of death because they, themselves, only want to put those well-meaning couples back into servitude to the old ways we have been released from by Christ. Matthew 23:15 Why do people keep homosexual couples from marrying and then condemn them for fornicating? Isn't this hypocritical?
The wrong type of love. the word love has different meaning depending upon its usage in the scripture.
Christ's law is nothing more than the whole 613 commandments summed up in His person and the two greatest love God and love thy neighbour. So we see that the commands still exist, particularly the moral laws which homosexuality is one of. I should also point out that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed and condemned for fornication (which is homosexuality plus a wide range of sexual perversions) and this was BEFORE the law.
Only for those things which don't matter, such as what sort of food we can eat. It never condoned homosexuality, adultery, beastiality or any other such sins.
Because the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman. Going back to Genesis, God created Adam and Eve, and they became one flesh. That's marriage.
Again you've misunderstood what Christ did. Christ was not a social reformer who wore a gay pride badge on his arm and said in a lispy voice "ok guyth, you've all thuffered under the old law and now I'm here to tell you that none of that applieth anymore, you can live how you like and how you feel" . He lived in a time where homosexuality and unmarried sex were still very much taboo in Jewish society. The chances that he would even infer such interpretations of his words , that he came to replace the law and allow homosexual love makes no sense.
It's justified given that marriage is between man and woman, and by that definition homosexuals can never get married in God's eyes.
Christ's law is nothing more than the whole 613 commandments summed up in His person and the two greatest love God and love thy neighbour. So we see that the commands still exist, particularly the moral laws which homosexuality is one of. I should also point out that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed and condemned for fornication (which is homosexuality plus a wide range of sexual perversions) and this was BEFORE the law.
Only for those things which don't matter, such as what sort of food we can eat. It never condoned homosexuality, adultery, beastiality or any other such sins.
Because the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman. Going back to Genesis, God created Adam and Eve, and they became one flesh. That's marriage.
Again you've misunderstood what Christ did. Christ was not a social reformer who wore a gay pride badge on his arm and said in a lispy voice "ok guyth, you've all thuffered under the old law and now I'm here to tell you that none of that applieth anymore, you can live how you like and how you feel" . He lived in a time where homosexuality and unmarried sex were still very much taboo in Jewish society. The chances that he would even infer such interpretations of his words , that he came to replace the law and allow homosexual love makes no sense.
It's justified given that marriage is between man and woman, and by that definition homosexuals can never get married in God's eyes.
Wrong type of love? Love is love. There's the love of a man for his child and then there's the love of a man for his spouse. Aren't you denying their love? Are we supposed to do that as Christians?
You're saying Christ's law is that old system of laws?? I thought the old commands have been done away with in the Old Covenant. It has passed away, right? Now the New Covenant has come and set us free from it. And sodom and gomorrah were condemned in the old testament. We are no longer under the law of death as they were. We are under the law of love and have been released.
You can't pick and choose which laws you want to follow just as they couldn't pick and choose which laws they wanted to follow back in the old testament. If you choose to revert to the old laws then you are a debtor to obey the whole law because you have subjected yourself to that old system of laws. Why do you say homosexuality matters when the others don't?
All you're saying is that gays shouldn't marry because we were created a certain way. But God has set us free from condemnation under that old system. Now gays can join in marriage because they are observing the law of love. They are choosing to marry each other rather than fornicating and you are saying this is wrong?
Just because something is taboo it's a sin? Also, of course Jesus didn't come to replace the law but to fulfill it. Jesus has fulfilled those old laws on homosexuality and eating shellfish and sewing with two kinds of thread. It's time we came out of slavery and lived in our new lives God has given us. These lives are based on love; not on a point system of getting right with God. We should relish our new freedom and love one another rather than condemning those who love each other.
You're saying Christ's law is that old system of laws?? I thought the old commands have been done away with in the Old Covenant. It has passed away, right? Now the New Covenant has come and set us free from it. And sodom and gomorrah were condemned in the old testament. We are no longer under the law of death as they were. We are under the law of love and have been released.
You can't pick and choose which laws you want to follow just as they couldn't pick and choose which laws they wanted to follow back in the old testament. If you choose to revert to the old laws then you are a debtor to obey the whole law because you have subjected yourself to that old system of laws. Why do you say homosexuality matters when the others don't?
All you're saying is that gays shouldn't marry because we were created a certain way. But God has set us free from condemnation under that old system. Now gays can join in marriage because they are observing the law of love. They are choosing to marry each other rather than fornicating and you are saying this is wrong?
Just because something is taboo it's a sin? Also, of course Jesus didn't come to replace the law but to fulfill it. Jesus has fulfilled those old laws on homosexuality and eating shellfish and sewing with two kinds of thread. It's time we came out of slavery and lived in our new lives God has given us. These lives are based on love; not on a point system of getting right with God. We should relish our new freedom and love one another rather than condemning those who love each other.
The love a man has for his child is not the same love he has for his spouse. I'm not denying their love I'm denying their misplaced love. Men are not supposed to love other men in that way, and same for women.
Have you read the new testament before? The authors sometimes use sodom and gomorrah as examples. You haven't understood yet the relationship between Christ and the law, the old and the new. See what Phil36 and others said above that is on the mark.
Laws against homosexuality are still in effect, for the human race in general and for christians. There's nothing in the new testament that would suggest otherwise.
They're not joining in marriage in any sense of the word. Marriage = man + woman by all definitions in scripture.
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Because something is a sin, it's taboo. Jesus never preached what you are talking about. No where, you can't show me any quote where Jesus said homosexuality is OK. No one would have followed him if he had said such things, given the morals in that Jewish society.
We have specific verses in the new testament which show that the food laws were relaxed. We have no such verses in the new testament allowing homosexuality. Given that God condemned homosexuality before the law, in sodom and gomorrah, that law is outside the old covenant, and exists and applies for all of the human race for all time. You make it sound , in your warped understanding, as if the law contained unfair prohibitions that needed to be relaxed. That is entirely inaccurate view of the law. Instead, the law was written against evil, with commands given that are for our benefit to obey.
Have you read the new testament before? The authors sometimes use sodom and gomorrah as examples. You haven't understood yet the relationship between Christ and the law, the old and the new. See what Phil36 and others said above that is on the mark.
Laws against homosexuality are still in effect, for the human race in general and for christians. There's nothing in the new testament that would suggest otherwise.
They're not joining in marriage in any sense of the word. Marriage = man + woman by all definitions in scripture.
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Because something is a sin, it's taboo. Jesus never preached what you are talking about. No where, you can't show me any quote where Jesus said homosexuality is OK. No one would have followed him if he had said such things, given the morals in that Jewish society.
We have specific verses in the new testament which show that the food laws were relaxed. We have no such verses in the new testament allowing homosexuality. Given that God condemned homosexuality before the law, in sodom and gomorrah, that law is outside the old covenant, and exists and applies for all of the human race for all time. You make it sound , in your warped understanding, as if the law contained unfair prohibitions that needed to be relaxed. That is entirely inaccurate view of the law. Instead, the law was written against evil, with commands given that are for our benefit to obey.
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Are you serious? That homosexuality is a sin is found throughout christian literature , and Jewish, for the past few thousand years.
Up until about 20 years ago here, which you wouldn't know since you weren't born then, you could be arrested for being homosexuality.
I know that homosexuality is a sin, for a fact. It is you who does not.
Up until about 20 years ago here, which you wouldn't know since you weren't born then, you could be arrested for being homosexuality.
I know that homosexuality is a sin, for a fact. It is you who does not.
The love a man has for his child is not the same because he already has a spouse. To love another in the same way would offend his spouse. He or she would be jealous or would otherwise be offended. Why all these definitions on love? Love is love. You seem to be saying that we should develop a certain code on love to guide us and tell us how we should love. You keep saying that men aren't supposed to love other men but where in the New Testament can you find this? All of your proof is from the Old Testament. You say the laws about homosexuality existed outside of the old law, but they are clearly included in the old law.
Could you explain to me what the relationship between Christ and old and new laws are?
What is there in the New Covenant that suggests one man should not love another? Love is love. Your statement that the people in sodom and gomorrah were condemned because they were homosexual is clear bigotry.
If you're referring to the Old Testament Scriptures you're appealing to the old law or to some separate moral law. And we know the moral law would not have been separate from the old law then because those who obeyed the old law were commanded to do so by God. That was enough of a moral absolute for them at the time. This law God commanded them to obey included laws like not eating crab and not sewing your field with two kinds of seed, etc. But now we have been released from obeying those laws like not sewing with two kinds of seed. They were only moral back then because God commanded us to obey them and if we loved God then we would obey them. But are you referring to a separate moral law apart from God's morals?
Could you explain to me what the relationship between Christ and old and new laws are?
What is there in the New Covenant that suggests one man should not love another? Love is love. Your statement that the people in sodom and gomorrah were condemned because they were homosexual is clear bigotry.
If you're referring to the Old Testament Scriptures you're appealing to the old law or to some separate moral law. And we know the moral law would not have been separate from the old law then because those who obeyed the old law were commanded to do so by God. That was enough of a moral absolute for them at the time. This law God commanded them to obey included laws like not eating crab and not sewing your field with two kinds of seed, etc. But now we have been released from obeying those laws like not sewing with two kinds of seed. They were only moral back then because God commanded us to obey them and if we loved God then we would obey them. But are you referring to a separate moral law apart from God's morals?
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In your first two sentences you seem to be arguing that if the man did not have a spouse but only a child he would commence a sexual relationship with him/her. Love is not the same for everything. You may love icecream but you don't have sex with it.
There were laws before God wrote the commands on stone tablets and gave them to Moses you know? I'm not quoting new testament scripture if you can't understand the old. The new testament scriptures against homosxuality are plainer and clearer anyway. No serious bible scholar or theologian believes that they allow homosexuality.
No. Phil and others have already given good responses that address this.
You are confusing love in a general sense of the word, with homosexual love. Man love is the not the same as gay love.
We're not released from obeying the moral laws which existed before Moses. And any laws which are clearly in the new testament teachings are still with us today.
There were laws before God wrote the commands on stone tablets and gave them to Moses you know? I'm not quoting new testament scripture if you can't understand the old. The new testament scriptures against homosxuality are plainer and clearer anyway. No serious bible scholar or theologian believes that they allow homosexuality.
No. Phil and others have already given good responses that address this.
You are confusing love in a general sense of the word, with homosexual love. Man love is the not the same as gay love.
We're not released from obeying the moral laws which existed before Moses. And any laws which are clearly in the new testament teachings are still with us today.
1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals,
1Ti 1:10 for fornicators, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and anything else that is contrary to sound doctrine,
Jud 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, committing fornication, and going away after other flesh, laid down an example before-times, undergoing vengeance of everlasting fire.
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, He condemned them with an overthrow, setting an example to men intending to live ungodly.
There's a reason why the sin of homosexuality became known as sodomy.
1Ti 1:10 for fornicators, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and anything else that is contrary to sound doctrine,
Jud 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, committing fornication, and going away after other flesh, laid down an example before-times, undergoing vengeance of everlasting fire.
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, He condemned them with an overthrow, setting an example to men intending to live ungodly.
There's a reason why the sin of homosexuality became known as sodomy.
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