understanding living Faith

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J

jasonj

Guest
#61
#61
FreeNChrist said:
Okay, so tell us what the sum is you reached by adding them together. Because Paul clearly says In Romans 3 that the whole world stands guilty before God, and "that by works no man can be justified in His sight” (vs 19, 20). Whereas James clearly says, "that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone”. (James 2:24)
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listen man, put them together, add them don't subtract and you tell me? its not this difficult, its 1+1. not 1-1. its not pauls right, james is wrong. its paul is saying your already forgiven, and made new in order to do the good works prepared for you. if you want to friend you can just hold on to belief and live as you wish. you can subtract instead of add. if you want to think Gods word is randfom and opposes and contradicts itself, that's ur choice. it doesn't though, just gotta know its all relevant and true. paul is a great man, james a great man. I assure you, they agreed fully and both had something important to add, not subtracting the other. pauls heart was always to live as Jesus, james always to live as Jesus. we press on to Live as Jesus depending fully on His grace, but that gives us strength to press on further, not a liscence to do nothing were told. faith without action is dead. were saved by faith, understand faith. ill let you have the last word, and let you know I have nbo hard feelings at all. I hope You are blessed and continue to hold on to Jesus woith all of your heart regardless if you disagree
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#62
#62
and my sum is throughout this post. faith is belief working together with action. that's the sum.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#63
#63
mailmandan said:
Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: ;)
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what does a righteous man do with His life? these scriptures are great, but what about when we accept these as true? what do we do when were declared righteous?????????
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#64
#64
jasonj said:
listen man, put them together, add them don't subtract and you tell me? its not this difficult, its 1+1. not 1-1. its not pauls right, james is wrong. its paul is saying your already forgiven, and made new in order to do the good works prepared for you. if you want to friend you can just hold on to belief and live as you wish. you can subtract instead of add. if you want to think Gods word is randfom and opposes and contradicts itself, that's ur choice. it doesn't though, just gotta know its all relevant and true. paul is a great man, james a great man. I assure you, they agreed fully and both had something important to add, not subtracting the other. pauls heart was always to live as Jesus, james always to live as Jesus. we press on to Live as Jesus depending fully on His grace, but that gives us strength to press on further, not a liscence to do nothing were told. faith without action is dead. were saved by faith, understand faith. ill let you have the last word, and let you know I have nbo hard feelings at all. I hope You are blessed and continue to hold on to Jesus woith all of your heart regardless if you disagree
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Okie dokie smokie. ;)
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#65
#65
mailmandan said:
The harmony of Romans 3 and Romans 4:2-6 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul, when he uses the term, refers to the legal (judicial) act of God by which He accounts the sinner as righteous (Romans 3:24; 4:2-6; 5:1). James, however is using the term to describe those who would prove the genuineness of their faith by the works that they do.

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

Man is saved through faith and not works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony.*
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Great stuff. genuine faith is always what the word means. belief will always result in action, always if it is true or genuine
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#66
Apr 7, 2014
25,359
13,308
113
58
#66
jasonj said:
and my sum is throughout this post. faith is belief working together with action. that's the sum.
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Saving faith is belief, trust, reliance in Christ for salvation. Working/action which follows is works and we are saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). Faith is not baptism, faith is not multiple acts of obedience, faith is not works.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#68
Apr 7, 2014
25,359
13,308
113
58
#68
jasonj said:
Great stuff. genuine faith is always what the word means. belief will always result in action, always if it is true or genuine
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Faith/belief is the root and action/works which follow are the fruit of salvation. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of saving faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#69
#69
mailmandan said:
Saving faith is belief, trust, reliance in Christ for salvation. Working/action which follows is works and we are saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1). Faith is not baptism, faith is not multiple acts of obedience, faith is not works.
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Faith is not empty belief, it will always result in action. faith that results in no action is dead. action springs from belief. genuine faith. if faith never does anything, its worthless. but we walk by faith. we follow after our belief. that's true faith. to live what you believe. it is the evidence of what you believe. I didn't say faith is baptism ect......... faith is tangible and evidenced by how we live. its that simple. if a person wont accept to follow Jesus, there faith isn't working. demons know who the Lord is, they just wont do what He says to do. they have no faith, but they know who He is and what He has done. they just Love darkness instead of Light. faith isn't knowing, its believing enough to do. the Life in faith is the action, just like Love. without action its useless
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#70
#70
mailmandan said:
Faith/belief is the root and action/works which follow are the fruit of salvation. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of saving faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.
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God/Christ/ ??
Faith/belief/root
action/works/fruit
 
M

mpaper345

Banned
#73
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
0
#73
Some people say we are not saved by works,some people say we are saved by works,because faith without works is dead,but this is not a contradiction.

Paul was dealing with the Gentiles,to point them to Christ,so when Paul said we are not saved by works,he was not talking about works after we are saved,but he was telling the Gentiles that they are not saved by any works they do,in their religions,apart from Christ,to have a relationship,and favor from God,but only be accepting Christ are they saved,and find favor with God.

Not saved by works is not talking about after we are saved,but trying to have a relationship with God,and find favor with Him,apart from Christ.Not saved by works is not accepting Christ,as the false religions do,or people that say I believe in God,but do not go by the Bible,trying to have favor with God.

After we are saved,we have to allow the Spirit to lead us,and do the works the Spirit wants us to do,which love is the fulfilling of the law,so we labor to love people,which then faith is active in our life,which salvation is applied,because no faith,no salvation,and these works are coming from God,and not from us.

Not saved by works,works coming from us,apart from Christ,and faith without works is dead,works coming from God,by the Holy Spirit,so for people that say that works do not help us when we are saved,these works come from God,and not from us.

Everybody has to live up to the law,but they could not do it in the Old Testament,perfectly.

In the New Testament we can live up to the law by the Spirit,which a Spirit led life will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

Paul said we do not void out the law,but we establish the law,which the law is spiritual,holy,and good,which are the moral laws,laws of love,but Jesus took the physical ordinances out of the way,nailing them to His cross.

Everybody has to live up to the moral laws,and laws of love,which is the ten commandments,and any other laws,that is moral,goodness,and love,which we can do by the Spirit.

If led by the Spirit you will show the characteristics of the Spirit,for all your sins are forgiven,and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh,doing only what the Spirit wants you to do,therefore you are not under the law,which means the law cannot touch you for prosecution.

But if a person sins,they are back under the law,until they repent of it,being led of the Spirit.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#74
#74
mailmandan said:
Faith/belief is the root and action/works which follow are the fruit of salvation. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of saving faith in Christ, but not the essence of faith and not the means of our salvation.
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does faith save if it isn't genuine? is there a testing of Faith to determine if it is genuine? does an acknowledgement that Jesus is who He is save? the demonms always shouted "son of God what do you want with us?"..and the like. look at Hebrews and the hall of faith....by faith..this is what this person did...ect. faith is peter taking that step, that's the seal of genuine faith, there is no other faith. if I say I have faith and live as if I do not believe, I have onbly proven myself false. faith is everything, it is not faith if it will not follow after Jesus Christ when we believe what He has done for us. Faith is the evidence of the belief. There is a testing of faith, genuine faith is what is written about. if you believe, you will follow. or if you love Him, you will obey His commands...

The Hebrews hall of faith could say and by faith, the Christians followed the teachings of Jesus Christ because they had true faith in Who He is. we walk by faith, but WE walk having been enabled in every way. all glory to God, the name is Jesus....but we owe everything we are and Have to the one who gave us everything He had to the point of death. If we Love Jesus truly, following His word should be our top priority. Just like we love our kids and have them as a priority, But Jesus....even moreso, all of our hearts, means all of our lives
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#75
#75
mpaper345 said:
Some people say we are not saved by works,some people say we are saved by works,because faith without works is dead,but this is not a contradiction.

Paul was dealing with the Gentiles,to point them to Christ,so when Paul said we are not saved by works,he was not talking about works after we are saved,but he was telling the Gentiles that they are not saved by any works they do,in their religions,apart from Christ,to have a relationship,and favor from God,but only be accepting Christ are they saved,and find favor with God.

Not saved by works is not talking about after we are saved,but trying to have a relationship with God,and find favor with Him,apart from Christ.Not saved by works is not accepting Christ,as the false religions do,or people that say I believe in God,but do not go by the Bible,trying to have favor with God.

After we are saved,we have to allow the Spirit to lead us,and do the works the Spirit wants us to do,which love is the fulfilling of the law,so we labor to love people,which then faith is active in our life,which salvation is applied,because no faith,no salvation,and these works are coming from God,and not from us.

Not saved by works,works coming from us,apart from Christ,and faith without works is dead,works coming from God,by the Holy Spirit,so for people that say that works do not help us when we are saved,these works come from God,and not from us.

Everybody has to live up to the law,but they could not do it in the Old Testament,perfectly.

In the New Testament we can live up to the law by the Spirit,which a Spirit led life will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

Paul said we do not void out the law,but we establish the law,which the law is spiritual,holy,and good,which are the moral laws,laws of love,but Jesus took the physical ordinances out of the way,nailing them to His cross.

Everybody has to live up to the moral laws,and laws of love,which is the ten commandments,and any other laws,that is moral,goodness,and love,which we can do by the Spirit.

If led by the Spirit you will show the characteristics of the Spirit,for all your sins are forgiven,and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh,doing only what the Spirit wants you to do,therefore you are not under the law,which means the law cannot touch you for prosecution.

But if a person sins,they are back under the law,until they repent of it,being led of the Spirit.
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thank you for the input God bless you
 
K

keepitsimple

Guest
#77
#77
mailmandan said:
Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: ;)
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jasonj said:
what does a righteous man do with His life? these scriptures are great, but what about when we accept these as true? what do we do when were declared righteous?????????
Click to expand...
We continue to recognize that God's righteousness was imputed upon us ... and that our own righteousness is as a filthy rag in His sight. We can still strive for the mark and simultaneously recognize that we are nothing without Him.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#79
#79
keepitsimple said:
We continue to recognize that God's righteousness was imputed upon us ... and that our own righteousness is as a filthy rag in His sight. We can still strive for the mark and simultaneously recognize that we are nothing without Him.
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That's really the only way it works what you just said. sometimes when someone says something we see what isn't there because of what we think about a subject. without Jesus we have and are nothing, cant be ever. with Jesus we are so much more than we were and can do ALL things through Him who gives us strength. we can walk and live a righteous life, only because of what has been done by God. to understand what He has done for us, and live as we used to....that's not something I am willing to take after Knowing the things His word says. its life changing to meet Jesus Christ. Life changing.
 
J

jasonj

Guest
#80
#80
seed_time_harvest said:
I don't think he understands what that scripture Is saying,when It says "not before GOD"
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lol if he was saved by works hed have the right to say " I did this look at me I'm better than you" hed be able to do that among sinners, but not before God because God is perfect. hes God. when someone says we need to obey Jesus, really any argument against that statement, is a lie and is deadly if it is accepted. God will never say obedience is less than pleasing to Him. That's the truth. has been and always will be. obedience to Jesus is Christianity, once you believe you are new and clean, theres no excuse left to not follow. Knowing how He suffered and died should easily be enough to change a heart. I myself will and can take no other view because of Gods Word, and nothing else. He is worth everything I can give Him, including every effort to follow His words....not to save me, but because He did, I will serve Him.
 
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