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Unborning Eternal Life
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Everybody has eternal life,even the lost,and the saints cannot lose their salvation,if there is no sin in their life when they die,but what if there is sin unrepentant,and they die.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
God said a person that is saved,that they can be lost,if there is unrepentant sin in their life,and they die,for then they have judgment upon them,worse than the judgment in the Old Testament,and God would not have to warn about something that could not occur.
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul said if he did not do what is right,he would be a castaway.
Do we have an advantage over Paul,where we can act up and be right with God,but Paul could not get away with it.
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Is this obsolete now,for God said if we do not continue in His goodness,we would be cut off.
Was God tougher on them back then,where it does not apply now,where they could be cut off,and a castaway,and could not get away with things,but today we can get away with them.
And here is another example of going overboard with a scripture,and not harmonizing scriptures,and not rightly dividing the word of truth,for they say all we have to do is believe,and have spiritual blinders on,and that is all they see.
For with believing comes certain conditions.
They that name the name of Christ,have to depart from iniquity.
We are not saved by faith alone,but faith without works is dead,which are works of the Spirit,and dead faith,is no faith,and is no salvation.
And other examples in the Bible,but they only see it,only believe,and you shall receive.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
What is there to work out,and what is this fear,and trembling,about,for if a person only has to confess Christ as Savior,those things would not apply.
People that are saved have to allow the Spirit to lead them,but not all people do that,which some people might not have received the Spirit,and thought they were saved,but this is talking about people who are saved.
We are only saved if we continue in what we started,which not all people do that,which Jesus said any person putting their hand to the plow,looking back,is not fit for the kingdom of God,and if any person thinks they stand,take heed,lest you fall.
I do not understand how people can ignore these things,but that is all they see,believe,and receive,with no responsibility on their part,but I will say we all might of had something similar like that concerning some scriptures,some correcting it,some continuing not correcting it,and ignoring scriptures.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
God said a person that is saved,that they can be lost,if there is unrepentant sin in their life,and they die,for then they have judgment upon them,worse than the judgment in the Old Testament,and God would not have to warn about something that could not occur.
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Paul said if he did not do what is right,he would be a castaway.
Do we have an advantage over Paul,where we can act up and be right with God,but Paul could not get away with it.
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Is this obsolete now,for God said if we do not continue in His goodness,we would be cut off.
Was God tougher on them back then,where it does not apply now,where they could be cut off,and a castaway,and could not get away with things,but today we can get away with them.
And here is another example of going overboard with a scripture,and not harmonizing scriptures,and not rightly dividing the word of truth,for they say all we have to do is believe,and have spiritual blinders on,and that is all they see.
For with believing comes certain conditions.
They that name the name of Christ,have to depart from iniquity.
We are not saved by faith alone,but faith without works is dead,which are works of the Spirit,and dead faith,is no faith,and is no salvation.
And other examples in the Bible,but they only see it,only believe,and you shall receive.
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
What is there to work out,and what is this fear,and trembling,about,for if a person only has to confess Christ as Savior,those things would not apply.
People that are saved have to allow the Spirit to lead them,but not all people do that,which some people might not have received the Spirit,and thought they were saved,but this is talking about people who are saved.
We are only saved if we continue in what we started,which not all people do that,which Jesus said any person putting their hand to the plow,looking back,is not fit for the kingdom of God,and if any person thinks they stand,take heed,lest you fall.
I do not understand how people can ignore these things,but that is all they see,believe,and receive,with no responsibility on their part,but I will say we all might of had something similar like that concerning some scriptures,some correcting it,some continuing not correcting it,and ignoring scriptures.
Below is what you posted sir, and the way I read it, you were in effect saying, there are no conditions or works concerning the word, eternity.
And when I said, "When one rejects the truth of God's word, they reject the Holy Ghost, which is the seed whereby we are sealed", I was showing there are still conditions to keeping our eternal salvation. In this case, it is not of works, but a condition of and within the heart. If one rejects the truth of the gospel, after having received the knowledge of the truth, and the other conditions listed in Hebrews 10, they have rejected the Holy Ghost, the blood of Christ, therefore they have rejected life, like the former Baptist man and his wife, who were both ministers of the gospel. They once believed with all their heart, but fell away after the man allegedly died.
This is based on the fact that we are born again BY the word of God, and the word of God is truth/life/light...etc.
Do you understand what I was saying now?
F
FreeNChrist
Guest
Here is a great teaching on Hebrews 10. If we don't read scripture in it's context...that text will con you...
The book of Hebrews was written to Jews and it is talking about Jesus being the Messiah, the High Priest, the difference between the Old Covenant and the New. Then they are warned about after hearing about Christ for sacrifices and the forgiveness of sins - not to reject Christ and go back to the temple sacrifices.
[video=youtube;IJ0i7NEYufo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ0i7NEYufo[/video]
The book of Hebrews was written to Jews and it is talking about Jesus being the Messiah, the High Priest, the difference between the Old Covenant and the New. Then they are warned about after hearing about Christ for sacrifices and the forgiveness of sins - not to reject Christ and go back to the temple sacrifices.
[video=youtube;IJ0i7NEYufo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ0i7NEYufo[/video]
According to Dan 7:13-14, Php 2:9-11, Rev 17:14, and Rev 19:11-16,
the King of Kings and Lord of lords is Christ.
1Tim 6:14-16 is actually a very useful proof text to support the belief that
Christ isn't merely human, but is actually God in disguise.
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The lost don't have eternal life: they have creature life, which is a kind of life
that had it's beginning in the book of Genesis.
According to 1John 1:1-2 eternal life isn't creature life; rather, it's divine.
According to John 17:2, Christ is the official distributor of eternal life and he
doesn't hand it out to just anybody.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
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FreeNChrist
Guest
The official distributor of eternal life? He hands out eternal life? You mean like eternal life is a commodity or sumptin?
No, it is not me who said it first. Jesus did.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Here you have someone who believes in and on the same name whereby we must be saved, and yet because they failed to DO the will of God, they shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Also, the example I gave of rejecting the truth of God's word, such as the former baptist minister, was not a work, so much, that caused the man to reject Christ and the truth of God's word to loose his salvation, as it was a condition of the heart.
You don't become a minister because you don't believe, but because you do.
Why did I think He lost his salvation? Because the man rejected the flesh and blood of Christ. In a manner of speaking, he vomited or hurled the life he ate and drank.
So yeah, I see salvation as having conditions.
Is the love of God unconditional to them who are in Christ Jesus?
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Apparently, according to the above verses, nothing can separate us from the love of God.
But how do you explain away the below verse.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
To put it another way, BECAUSE Jesus kept the Father's commandments, He abode in the Father's love. Which means, if Jesus didn't keep God's commandments He along with us, would not abide in God's love. The way I see it, that is conditional love. And the word "IF", is a conditional conjunction that uses other particles to denote, in many cases such as this, uncertainty, due to conditions. And in the verse above, the condition is based on the choice of the individual's obedience or condition of the heart, depending on how you interpret the word, "keep".
So is the love of God conditional or not?
Is the salvation of God conditional or not?
Though I don't know for certain, I see things in scripture that cast doubt on both.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Then, by all means, continue on working to keep your salvation. I wish you good luck with that.
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There's a scene at Rev 20:11-15 depicting the resurrection of the dead from
several different locations. The dead are mentioned four times, while the
living aren't mentioned even once and that's because Christ gave his word at
John 5:24 that the living never have to worry about being put on trial for
things they've done that are hell-worthy.
In other words; none of the dead will go to heaven from the great white
throne event: instead they will all every one lose their resurrected bodies by
a manner of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten
iron.
Q: Why are apparently sentient, conscious people called dead?
A: Christ said at John 5:24 that people with eternal life have crossed over
from death into life; which of course means that prior to obtaining eternal
life, they were dead on the hoof; viz: the dead in Rev 20:11-15 won't have
eternal life; instead, they'll all have natural-born human life; which is kind
of life not allowed in the eternal city. (Rev 21:27)
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There's a scene at Rev 20:11-15 depicting the resurrection of the dead from
several different locations. The dead are mentioned four times, while the
living aren't mentioned even once and that's because Christ gave his word at
John 5:24 that the living never have to worry about being put on trial for
things they've done that are hell-worthy.
In other words; none of the dead will go to heaven from the great white
throne event: instead they will all every one lose their resurrected bodies by
a manner of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten
iron.
Q: Why are apparently sentient, conscious people called dead?
A: Christ said at John 5:24 that people with eternal life have crossed over
from death into life; which of course means that prior to obtaining eternal
life, they were dead on the hoof; viz: the dead in Rev 20:11-15 won't have
eternal life; instead, they'll all have natural-born human life; which is kind
of life not allowed in the eternal city. (Rev 21:27)
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That is where you are wrong again. There is no such thing as luck.
Please interpret Jn 7:21.
Unlike you, and many others, I can't ignore scripture. I don't try to make the bible fit my doctrine. My doctrine is formed by what I understand from the bible. And if no one is knowledgeable enough to intelligently show where I misinterpreted the bible, then I cannot change what I see.
Again, I have shown many times using scripture to back everything up, that would cast some doubt concerning OSAS.
The reason I cannot believe in OSAS is because no one, no, not even one person has been able to explain away many of the things I have presented, without twisting scripture.
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Eternal life is immune to the consequences of sin.
● John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message and trust in God
who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins,
but they have already passed from death into life.
● Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in
Christ Jesus our Lord.
● Rom 8:1-2 . .Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are
in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set
me free from the law of sin and death.
Eternal life is really good news for dishonesty.
● Rev 21:8 . . All liars-- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
This is the second death.
I'd be willing to bet a tank of regular gas that there isn't one person on this
forum who doesn't lie now and then. In point of fact, I read an article
somewhere that dishonesty is not only a very common activity, but even
necessary just to get by in the world we live in.
There is an amazing number of ways that humanity practices dishonesty.
Wikipedia lists no less than 31.
● Ps 58:3 . . Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are
wayward and speak lies.
What an interesting observation. It's as much as saying that if infants could
speak, they'd not be totally honest; viz: children have to be taught manners,
but they don't have to be taught dishonesty; that comes natural to them.
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Eternal life is immune to the consequences of sin.
● John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message and trust in God
who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins,
but they have already passed from death into life.
● Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in
Christ Jesus our Lord.
● Rom 8:1-2 . .Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are
in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set
me free from the law of sin and death.
Eternal life is really good news for dishonesty.
● Rev 21:8 . . All liars-- their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
This is the second death.
I'd be willing to bet a tank of regular gas that there isn't one person on this
forum who doesn't lie now and then. In point of fact, I read an article
somewhere that dishonesty is not only a very common activity, but even
necessary just to get by in the world we live in.
There is an amazing number of ways that humanity practices dishonesty.
Wikipedia lists no less than 31.
● Ps 58:3 . . Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are
wayward and speak lies.
What an interesting observation. It's as much as saying that if infants could
speak, they'd not be totally honest; viz: children have to be taught manners,
but they don't have to be taught dishonesty; that comes natural to them.
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F
FreeNChrist
Guest
Ireneaus, Against Heresies
2. ... [the gnostic heretics] hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of [their] conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance [eternal life], whatever the material actions [i.e., behavior] in which they may be involved.
4. ... to [the gnostic heretics] who are called "the spiritual and perfect" [by themselves] such a course of conduct is not at all necessary. For it is not conduct of any kind which leads into the Pleroma [heaven], but [it is] the seed [of grace] sent forth thence [from heaven] in a feeble, immature state, and here [on earth] brought to perfection.
No such thing is ever stated or even hinted at in Scripture, yet people bandy the belief about like it was a foregone conclusion despite the fact that death is clearly spelled out as the consequence of sin, right from the second chapter of Genesis, over and over and over again, the soul that sinneth shall die, death! Death is in fact the reason why Jesus Christ incarnated into our sinful world, so that He might be the propitiation for our sins, and grant unto those who believe on Him eternal life. Death entered the world through sin and at the end of the age when sin is judged, those whose names are not found written in the Lamb's book of life shall be utterly destroyed, body and soul.
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Note the word "never" in Christ's statement.
● John 5:24 . . I assure you; those who listen to my message, and believe in
God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their
sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
Webster's defines "never" as: not ever, at no time, not in any degree, not
under any condition.
Here it is again:
● John 10:27-28 . . My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they
follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
FYI: Eternal life is impervious to death. If that were not true, it would be
possible to assassinate God; viz: not even God can kill eternal life. So then,
people who have eternal life as per Christ's statements can't lose it because
in order for them to lose their eternal life, it would be necessary to abort the
living thing that was born in them as per John 3:3-8; which of course is
impossible.
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Note the word "never" in Christ's statement.
● John 5:24 . . I assure you; those who listen to my message, and believe in
God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their
sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
Webster's defines "never" as: not ever, at no time, not in any degree, not
under any condition.
Here it is again:
● John 10:27-28 . . My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they
follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
FYI: Eternal life is impervious to death. If that were not true, it would be
possible to assassinate God; viz: not even God can kill eternal life. So then,
people who have eternal life as per Christ's statements can't lose it because
in order for them to lose their eternal life, it would be necessary to abort the
living thing that was born in them as per John 3:3-8; which of course is
impossible.
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Amen! Salvation is not probation. Eternal life is not temporary life. Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
