my last argument for obedience

[KenAllan]

So very true VDP.

Jesus has told us in the Scriptures about False Prophets who will try to deceive us into accepting false teachings as truth from God.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; [SUP]3 [/SUP]and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

2 Cor 11:13-15
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. [SUP]14 [/SUP]No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

 

[Grace777x70]

(snip)

2 Cor 11:13-15
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. [SUP]14 [/SUP]No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

I agree with this and it is so subtle too....sometimes it is hard to pick them out because they could just be a product of false teaching or an incomplete understanding of the gospel of the grace of Christ and are just trying to "defend the faith".

None of us have complete truth in all things. Only God knows and can judge the difference of what is in the heart of people.

Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie. Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.

This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )

This below is what satan is really after...this is why he has false teachers in our midst. He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I agree with this and it is so subtle too....sometimes it is hard to pick them out because they could just be a product of false teaching or an incomplete understanding of the gospel of the grace of Christ and are just trying to "defend the faith".

None of us have complete truth in all things. Only God knows and can judge the difference of what is in the heart of people.

Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie. Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.

This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )

This below is what satan is really after...this is why he has false teachers in our midst. He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Just about every post of yours is passive-aggressive accusation.

 

[DavidsLie]

woah........ I'm new here, and I'm not sure what I may be getting in the middle of, but I have no idea how Grace777x70's post was anything but truth from the Bible. HeRoseFromTheDead, how do you view that post as passive-aggressive accusation????????

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

woah........ I'm new here, and I'm not sure what I may be getting in the middle of, but I have no idea how Grace777x70's post was anything but truth from the Bible. HeRoseFromTheDead, how do you view that post as passive-aggressive accusation????????

It's his modus operandi. From now on pay attention to how he always infers that someone else is wrong. It's baked into his doctrine of hyper-grace that inherently accuses others of being legalists, DIYers, etc.

 

[MsSuzanna]

It's his modus operandi. From now on pay attention to how he always infers that someone else is wrong. It's baked into his doctrine of hyper-grace that inherently accuses others of being legalists, DIYers, etc.

Im sure he will ascertain for himself soon enough that you promote works and Grace777 promotes being saved by grace alone through faith alone

 

[jasonj]

I don't know how many times we have to say this but I'll do it again. The gospel of the grace of Christ is not looking for ways to NOT obey Christ. That is false and NOT true in any context..eventually it will fall on good soil and produce fruit....so I will say it again with great joy....

Here is what the so-called falsely accused "lawless grace believers" believe for being obedient to the gospel of the grace of Christ is.

Believing in Christ's finished work is being obedient to the faith and following Christ by the Holy Spirit within us which He confirms through the scriptures.

This will manifest in doing good works which stem from His life in us bearing His fruit to a hurt and dying world as well as to our brethren.

From the life of Christ in us now we continue on to being obedient to follow the Holy Spirit in us as Christ's life is manifested in us as we get our minds renewed to the revelation of Christ in us.

First Christ's obedience comes first.

Romans 5:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

Romans 1:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Romans 16:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Acts 6:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

I don't know how much plainer one can be in order for these false accusations to come to a halt. I will trust in the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus and all that He has done for us in this matter. God bless....

I reject the gog as it is preached, because it does not agree with Jesus Christ, I will always and forever REJECT anything that does not agree with Jesus Christ. I cant help that you cant see past pauls writings, the word makes that deal plain also. they are easily distorted, unto destruction. disobedience to Christ is destruction. obey is not an afterthought, you cant make nonsense Plain to me, you are wasting your time until you have a teaching that agrees with Jesus Christ. You will find nothing in Jesus gospel, that doesn't make obedience to His teachings the TOP PRIORITY in the Christian Life. but, you will find several warnings against not doing what He says. warning of destruction, hell, condemnation.

does Grace to you guys mean were just saved no matter what once we confess Jesus? does accepting grace mean there is no judgenment on us? does paul ever refer to the LAW of Christ? yeah he does, he makes a distinction between the Law of moses and the LAW of Jesus Christ. He states plainly, " I am under the Law of Christ" just after saying, I am not under law. the Law you guys are seeing in scripture when it says you aren't under it, is the mosaic Law. The Law of Christ is what He teaches, we are absolutely OBLIGATED to OBEY the Law of Christ.

will chriustians stand before Christ seat of Judgement and receive what is due them ACCORDING TO WHAT THEY HAVE DONE? yeah, grace doesn't nullify the righteous Judgements of God? what is our goal to be? 2 Corinthians 5:9-10 " so we make it our goal to please Him, whether we are at home with the body or away from it. FOR WE ALL MUSTAPPEAR BEFOIRE THE JUDGEMENT SEAT OF CHRIST, THAT EACH ONE MAY RECEIVE WHAT IS DUE HIM FOR THE THINGS DONE WHILE IN THE BODY, WHETHER GOOD OR BAD."

why why does He say " do you not realize we are runners in a race?...run as in a way to obtain the prize? why does he go on to describe His fight and struggle to subdue His body and make it obedient to Christ? you guys absolutely are not in line with the Gospel. if a person teaches, were saved no matter what its a lie of satan. if grace means no big deal what you do, just believe its a deception. if someone says "cant lose salvation." its a lie meant to kill gods beloved. if someone says don't FIX YOUR HEART ON OBEYING jesus, its not the Gispel. that is the whole Gospel, Jesus.

you are again not going to make sense to me until your "gospel" is in line with the only true Gospel that exists. anyone freely can learn this gospel. matthew mark luke John. you will be surprised what you learn according to the popular feel good doctrine. you will find a Lord that Loved you to death, and Gave you Life. that Life is His teachings. the thing you guys have preached constantly is not the gospel. your stuck on looking through a lens that is meant to spur you into action, enabling you by Faith to be obedient to Jesus.

I think maybe, you don't realize how your own words are seen from another perspective. the thing with my words. My words are saying, Jesus words are the way. I'm confident because His words are right. never will understand anything else. Paul knew this stuff, he taught it all through the new testament. as did John, james, jude, the writers of Hebrews. ect. theres no reason to be offended lol I'm not upset at anyone honestly. never will go backwards to where I was though, there is one treasure, one Life, one way, Jesus. to go "through" Jesus is to go through His word meant for us to do. all hope that you are able to work out your own salvation , but fear and trembling are useful until the truth manifests. Fear God even though He sent Grace, we are all more accountable than ever. that's the price of Grace. the horror endured By Gods only son, to forgive us and teach us righteousness. He has many warnings also about hearing and doing. doers of the word is the resounding message. so if your gospel has lead you to obedience to Christ, that should be a message you find no shame in. obey Jesus. simple message, true message for every single Christian. logic and circular reasoning, cant change it. I know ur beliefs, id ask you to think to yourself, Is the Lord my Lord?

in what Kingdom are the Kings orders, not acknowledged in reality? theres no nice way to say it to someone who is living for themself, Obey Jesus is the only salvation. to the one who has been reconciled, obedience is a beautiful hymn. and amen

 

[e_v_e]

It's his modus operandi. From now on pay attention to how he always infers that someone else is wrong. It's baked into his doctrine of hyper-grace that inherently accuses others of being legalists, DIYers, etc.

For me I couldn't read his posts because they became preachy. I prefer love and witness and praise and words from personal experience and heart. I felt the pride there and didn't read it.

 

[psalm6819]

Just about every post of yours is passive-aggressive accusation.

still love ya, I'm just praying that God is gonna melt your heart with His love, you are very precious to Him

 

[jasonj]

So very true VDP.

Jesus has told us in the Scriptures about False Prophets who will try to deceive us into accepting false teachings as truth from God.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; [SUP]3 [/SUP]and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

2 Cor 11:13-15
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. [SUP]14 [/SUP]No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

couldn't agree more. the Guy saying learn and follow Jesus words......His message is approved in every way. how or why? because to deny a man saying look at Jesus words, obey Jesus words.....is to deny the words Of Christ. simple really, and actually undeniable. if What Jesus says isn't the authority in our Life....idk why we call Him Lord

 

[Grace777x70]

still love ya, I'm just praying that God is gonna melt your heart with His love, you are very precious to Him

Amen..I agree..he is the Lord's favorite and is deeply loved by Him! He is a good, loving Father to him ( God thinks of all of us as His favorite... )

 

[e_v_e]

She the soul is never free...she's either wearing His Mind or else deluded and captive to the self-rule and pride of the fall. Freedom is an illusion of the fallen context.

The soul is not strong. She's easily confused and pretty helpless. She needs to turn someplace to be soothed and for strength. So she turns to this world and its accomplishments - infinite ones (idols). Or, she dies to this world and turns to God.

The problem of dying is that the soul is so glued to the finite self, the I and its prideful attachments. The I is the fallen consciousness/mind that attaches the poor soul to its beliefs and false goals. The soul is so identified with this fallen way of being that she thinks that to deny the I, the pride-filled fallen "form of self", would be to deny herself. This is the confused condition of the soul in this world. To confuse herself with the fallen mind.

I feel that to fix the situation is something no soul can "accomplish." Only He can change us, so we can wear His mind and experience our new being. To trust and to surrender mean to give up on self-rule and surrender to Him. Because the natural man only can continue deluded - even if very earnestly parroting the right words.

 

[jasonj]

If I believe what each side has stated, you are saying the same thing..

But, it sounds like one side is saying grace only, and ANY kind of work is negating grace... and the other side sounds like if you rely solely on grace, you're negating what Jesus taught.

We are saved by God's grace..and because we are saved, we will live our lives as best we can, in obedience to His commands..

When we fail in obedience, we are covered with grace, but that in NO way gives us reason to not strive daily to obey. We confess our failings and move forward.

amen. and as we commit to obey as you have said, the power of the gospel breathes Life into the inner faith we confess. all for the purpose of Living to glorify and honor the Lord Jesus Christ. I in no way have ever said as has been the accusation that work saves at all. it cant. accepting Jesus Christ and all of Him, saves. like you said here. grace is not a free pass its an extension to us, if we accept what Jesus suffered for us, full commitment is the only right response to that. does this mean well never fall or miss the mark? absolutely not but if I forgive others, forgiveness belongs to me. that's a commandment of Jesus. following His teachings is washing our robes in His blood, its the truth when we are doing it, when a person sees what u are saying, they will grow into salvation and begin to know the Lord intimately, wich will automatically make them stronger and fill them with more light. perfect obedience is not my word, setting the heart to " I will obey my Lord who suffered as He did, no matter what....He is worthy" That is the gospel, from there God works out the new nature. it comes through accepting that Christ is the gospel, thank you for the wisdom and calming nature of your comment, God bless

 

[dancinglady]

Just a little side-bar here, if you will accept my observation. Perhaps, pre-requisite is a poor word when talking about Obedience. Though it is mandatory, it should be an honor and a privelage to show obedience to the one who gave his life for us.
When one submits to a king, they do so with honor. They do it willingly and with the utmost alligience. obedience is part of that. It's not a hardship, not something we do because it's required. Rather, we a desire it. Ya think?

 

[jasonj]

I agree with this and it is so subtle too....sometimes it is hard to pick them out because they could just be a product of false teaching or an incomplete understanding of the gospel of the grace of Christ and are just trying to "defend the faith".

None of us have complete truth in all things. Only God knows and can judge the difference of what is in the heart of people.

Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie. Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.

This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[SUP]15 [/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )

This below is what satan is really after...this is why he has false teachers in our midst. He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Let me get this straight hahahaha the Guy who is saying go to Jesus words and obey them is a false prophet???? your arguments have gotten ridiculous and exposed ALOT to anyone who actually reads what is here. wow. definitely need to stay on this site now. If Jesus words aren't the ones keep searchin folks. Gotta learn and follow Jesus to be a christian

 

[BenFTW]

Just a little side-bar here, if you will accept my observation. Perhaps, pre-requisite is a poor word when talking about Obedience. Though it is mandatory, it should be an honor and a privelage to show obedience to the one who gave his life for us.
When one submits to a king, they do so with honor. They do it willingly and with the utmost alligience. obedience is part of that. It's not a hardship, not something we do because it's required. Rather, we a desire it. Ya think?

Loyalty, not tyranny.

 

[jasonj]

Just a little side-bar here, if you will accept my observation. Perhaps, pre-requisite is a poor word when talking about Obedience. Though it is mandatory, it should be an honor and a privelage to show obedience to the one who gave his life for us.
When one submits to a king, they do so with honor. They do it willingly and with the utmost alligience. obedience is part of that. It's not a hardship, not something we do because it's required. Rather, we a desire it. Ya think?

yes pre requisite I didn't recognize. but also if a king tells a subject to do something that requires us to submit what we want to do, there is no reasoning to disobey the Lord an king. the simplest truth is to Just obey Jesus by whatever means necessary. some folk were never as wicked as I, maybe they didn't have so much to give away to the Lord, all I really know about myself is I'm all in with JESUS Hes my Lord so Hes the one I follow. He gave grace to do so, I accept it fully, and my hand is to the plow. my aspiration is to be fit for service, so no one should ever expect me to compromise the words of Christ. I am nothing, His words are where I am pointing. cant be a fallacy in that, He is the truth. said so Himself. l trust Him to sustain me, and set my heart to obey...because THATS WHAT JESUS SAYS TO DO

 

[jasonj]

Loyalty, not tyranny.

loyalty is in the action. loyal to a wife, not committing adultery. Loyalty in Jesus own words? obey my commands

 

[BenFTW]

Let me get this straight hahahaha the Guy who is saying go to Jesus words and obey them is a false prophet???? your arguments have gotten ridiculous and exposed ALOT to anyone who actually reads what is here. wow. definitely need to stay on this site now. If Jesus words aren't the ones keep searchin folks. Gotta learn and follow Jesus to be a christian

Are you feeling convicted? lol He didn't even use the words "false prophet" and it came out of your own mouth. Maybe its time for some self-reflection? Your animosity is telling. No one is saying be disobedient to Christ they are only offering another means of being obedient. Not in the flesh, but by grace and through the spirit as a new creation (I.e; your new identity).

 

[Grace777x70]

Loyalty, not tyranny.

Amen...Obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man. It is not the root. It's the love of God manifesting Himself in and through us to a hurt and dying world and to our fellow brethren.

We obey our Lord and Father because we know Him and trust in His character and obedience is not a set of rules, but a love-trust relationship. When you know the love of God for us we will obey Him naturally and effortlessly.

I maintain that obedience is a fruit of the life of Christ in our inner man that is created in Christ. when we teach the grace of God this enables us to bear His fruit in and through us.