Is the Devil bound right now...?

[JohnOne]

The casting-down is in the Greek aorist tense (i.e. completed action).

It has already occurred.

It was a one time event.

Satan does not have a Disney Land fast-pass to Heaven...

There is a major major major problem with your false interpretation. It doesn't align with God's word. Let me show you.

But before I do I would like to state that you as a senior member with over 5,000 posts you needed to be shown the verses that clearly show satan can accuse people in heaven and that he needs to be cast down for it to stop.

The casting out of heaven and the casting into bottomless pit are different as we see.

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:3 shows that once satan is BOUND ( thousand years ) he can no longer deceive the nations. He is deceiving the nations now as we see. Of course there those that say not everyone can be deceived from a nation. Thats of the thought that everyone of a particular nation needs to be deceived for the nation to be deceived. To answer that is easy. How many people do you need to deceive to deceive the nations or for that matter how many people needed to be deceived to deceive the whole world ( 8 people Noah's ark ). Also how does that fit in with lot and Sodom and Gomorrah. The answer is that thought process and interpretation doesn't align with God's word. So the argument that all people need to be deceived of a nation for a nation to be deceived is an argument with no scriptural backing.

If the casting down has already occurred then we are in the great tribulation and satan's wrath. For it clearly says that in those verses. If satan is bound he can no longer deceive the nations and when he is cast down thats when WOE TO THE inhabiter's of the earth satan's great wrath starts.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiter's of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Satan's great wrath is great tribulation.

In 2 Thess 2 Paul says about great tribulation:

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Paul says satan exalts himself above all that is called God during the great tribulation. KEY WORD EXAULTETH!!

So during great tribulation satan exalts himself.

The day of the Lord = The Lords wrath

Zep 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
Zep 1:15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
Zep 1:16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high tower

Since we know the day of the Lord is the day of wrath. Lets see what scripture says.




Isaiah 2:11-12 KJV The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. 12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

The verse above clearly says the Lord alone will be exalted in that day. What day? The day of the LORD!!! Which according to the old testament prophets is the Lords wrath.

The Lord alone is exalted in that day. Since satan exalts himself during great tribulation and in God's wrath the Lord alone is exalted in that day. Then it is impossible for satan to have been cast down yet never mind be bound. He is still deceiving the nations , he is still roaming around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. He is not seeking to devour those that are already his I might add as he has already devoured them. He is still accusing the brethren for when heaven rejoices is when he is cast out no longer able to accuse us before God.

If the Lord alone is exalted in that day then no one , NO ONE will be exalting themselves at all whatsoever according to God's word. Mankind is still in rebellion and many are exalting themselves. Then God's wrath which is the DAY OF THE LORD termed perfectly as only the Lord will be exalted in that day as its His Day. Will commence. If your not careful it will come upon you as a thief.

So your interpretation of greek words in context is entirely incorrect as shown not by me but by the very words of God.


Mat_4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Luk_4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

 

[JohnOne]

But JESUS SAID he was bound (Matt 12.28-29) Don't you believe Him?

Of course God is a Spirit and the Spirit of God has been binding satan from doing certain things all throughout the bible or did you not read it.

Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 12:29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Where in these verses doe it say satan was bound for 1000 years? It doesn't you have to add that.

In context it fits with the rest of scripture where God has been binding satan from doing certain things at certain times throughout the bible. But he has not been bound from deceiving the nations for 1000 years. He is still deceiving people and they are still exalting themselves and when enough people fall away time will come.

The falling away comes first. Falling away in greek is apostisia ( defection from truth, to forsake ) That is happening now and will grow worse culminating in the great trib. Upon its completion God will distribute His wrath and THE LORD ALONE WILL BE EXALTED IN THAT DAY. Obviously the Lord alone is not being exalted now. Thus your interpretations do not line up with God's word.

he has many minions. It would be foolish not to be concerned about them. but he is bound (matt 12.28-29)

1Ti_5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan. That verse doesn't say turned aside after his minions. Again your adding things to God's word.

Jas_4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

That verse doesn't say minions. Again you have to add that. It says diablos ( The Devil specifically Satan ).

The truth has been shared. The falling away comes first. Apostisia Defection from truth to forsake.

 

[Bowman]

preterism is a red herring. there are NONE here.

Agreed.

But the buzzword sounds sooooooooooooo good to their ears, as they accuse.....

 

[Bowman]

There is a major major major problem with your false interpretation. It doesn't align with God's word. Let me show you.

I study God's word in the original languages, in which they were inspired.

Clearly, it is you who has the false interpretation, as you attempt to muddle your way through with an English translation, ignoring the original, altogether...

The casting out of heaven and the casting into bottomless pit are different as we see.

Most certainly, these are two separate events.....both, of which, have already occurred...

 

[Bowman]

Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Who cast Satan into the abyss...?

And....why is it, once again, in the Greek aorist tense, completed action?

 

[Bowman]

Revelation 20:3 shows that once satan is BOUND ( thousand years ) he can no longer deceive the nations. He is deceiving the nations now as we see. Of course there those that say not everyone can be deceived from a nation. Thats of the thought that everyone of a particular nation needs to be deceived for the nation to be deceived. To answer that is easy. How many people do you need to deceive to deceive the nations or for that matter how many people needed to be deceived to deceive the whole world ( 8 people Noah's ark ). Also how does that fit in with lot and Sodom and Gomorrah. The answer is that thought process and interpretation doesn't align with God's word. So the argument that all people need to be deceived of a nation for a nation to be deceived is an argument with no scriptural backing.

If the casting down has already occurred then we are in the great tribulation and satan's wrath. For it clearly says that in those verses. If satan is bound he can no longer deceive the nations and when he is cast down thats when WOE TO THE inhabiter's of the earth satan's great wrath starts.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiter's of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Satan was bound at The Cross.....and we are in the '1K period' right now.

Again, the Greek is in the aorist tense (completed action).

Its an event that has already occurred.

Come on...

 

[Bowman]

In 2 Thess 2 Paul says about great tribulation:

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Paul says satan exalts himself above all that is called God during the great tribulation. KEY WORD EXAULTETH!!

So during great tribulation satan exalts himself.

Adding context...


2 Thes 2.6 - 7

και νυν το κατεχον οιδατε εις το αποκαλυφθηναι αυτον εν τω αυτου καιρω το γαρ μυστηριον ηδη ενεργειται της ανομιας μονον ο κατεχων αρτι εως εκ μεσου γενηται

kai nyn to katechon iodate eis to apokalyphthēnai auton en tō heautou kairō to gar mystērion ēdē energeitai tēs anomias monon ho katechōn arti heōs ek mesou genētai


And you know that which is binding him for now, to be revealed in his appointed time. For The Hidden, The Lawless is already working, only he is bound at present, taken out of the way, until he comes out of the midst.


Compare…


Col 2.13 - 15

και υμας νεκρους οντας τοις παραπτωμασιν και τη ακροβυστια της σαρκος υμων συνεζωοποιησεν υμας συν αυτω χαρισαμενος ημιν παντα τα παραπτωματαεξαλειψας το καθ ημων χειρογραφοντοις δογμασιν ο ην υπεναντιον ημιν και αυτο ηρκεν εκ του μεσου προσηλωσας αυτο τω σταυρωαπεκδυσαμενος τας αρχας και τας εξουσιας εδειγματισεν εν παρρησιαθριαμβευσας αυτους εν αυτω

kai hymas nekrous ontas en tois paraptōmasin kai tē akrobystia tēs sarkos hymōn synezōopoiēsen hymas syn auto charisamenos hemin panta ta paraptōmata exaleipsas to kath' hēmōn cheirographon tois dogmasin ho ēn hypenantion heminkai auto ērken ek tou mesou prosēlōsas auto tō staurō apekdysamenos tas archas kai tas exousias edeigmatisen en parrēsia thriambeusas autos en autō


And you, being dead in the transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh,He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the transgressions, having blotted out the handwritten bond in the decrees against us,which was an adversary to us, and He has taken him out of the way, having nailed him to the cross; having disarmed the rulers and the powers,He made a show of them in public,triumphing over them in Him.

 

[garee]

I would reevaluate your position garee and that because, believing in the BODILY resurrection of Christ is apart of our faith.

Hi Ahwatokee

Thanks for the reply. I try to stay in a place of re-evaluation


As an example of the invisible work of the Spirit of holiness not seen, God demonstrated the results of putting on the incorruptible as to the prior corruptible. God did not become a man as us. It was an outward one time promised demonstration of the Spirit of God.

When Jesus appeared to the disciples after resurrecting and appeared to them behind closed doors, they thought that they had seen a spirit. But Jesus reassures them that it is He Himself by showing them the nail marks in His hands and feet and referred to his body as being flesh and bone.

Our Supernatural (no nature, as in a beginning) God who has no form demonstrated to them reluctantly. He was not changing the manner of faith and now saying ;we walk by sight after empiricism, after the rudiments of this world . That sign was designed for the rebellious unbelieving Thomas who looked as a hope to a fleshly God, making that seen the Real Presence, making faith (not seen) without effect.

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: Joh 20:29

I see no reason to look for a fleshly Jesus. There is no blessing in walking by sight.That would be the avenues Satan walks in

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

I believe He still desires we worship by faith and even though a few did now Christ after the flesh .The demonstration is over never again are we to look to God as if he was a daysman, as a god like us that has form .

The warning seems clear we know him no more forever more outwardly. Twice he uses the term henthforth to make it clear.
Not the most popular used verse but just as reliable in coming to His truth.

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth “know we him” no more.

He resurrected in the same body that He was crucified in! He did not change into a spiritual being after that, but remained in that resurrected body, ascended in that resurrected body, sat down at the right hand of the Father in that body and will return to gather the church in that same resurrected, immortal and glorified body.

It cannot be attributed to these bodies of death as the same kind of body . The body of Christ’s sinful flesh was corrupted as in any person born of the flesh . It aged in a decaying process that led toward death and destruction. The temporal new was used to show the promise of pouring out his Spirit life on sinful flesh . We are not to look for that outward presence for ever more. The one time demonstration at the time of the first century reformation is over

1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

God who is incorruptible had no need to put on what he was already made of. The flesh profited for nothing. Nothing changes nothing, as if there was a need for God who changes not, to change into a creation

 

[garee]

do you believe that when Jesus came back to life, he made his body alive again, too? or was the body killed on the cross forever dead?

The Spirit of Christ in respect to our savoir Jesus, is the eternal source of spirit life. he has no beginnig of days or end of spirit life
What you see temporarily is not what you get. Incorruptible God has no form.

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hi Garee,

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: Joh 20:29

You have taken the above verse way out of context. Thomas, after seeing Jesus crucified and die and then seeing Jesus in His resurrected body, prompted Thomas to say "my Lord and my God." Then Jesus said to Thomas that he believed because he had seen him in his resurrected body. Therefore "Not seen" is not referring to Jesus being invisible or returning invisibly, but believing because he had seen the Lord in His resurrected body. When Jesus said, "bless are those who believe, but have not seen" he was speaking about all who would become believers who would not have seen Christ in his resurrected body, which would include all believers throughout the entire church period.

I have already shown you that Jesus bodily, physical resurrection was a proof of his being the Son of God (Rom.1) and also that the word "Anastasis" translated "Resurrection" only refers to the body standing up again. I would advise to reevaluate and that because not believing in the bodily resurrection of Christ is detrimental to ones salvation. This is the very reason that the tomb was empty when Martha, Mary, John and Peter arrived. There was no body because was walking around in it. All believers who have died in Christ will be resurrected in the same manner. Their bodies will resurrect, but with immortal and glorified and with heavenly upgrades.

God who is incorruptible had no need to put on what he was already made of. The flesh profited for nothing. Nothing changes nothing, as if there was a need for God who changes not, to change into a creation

What do you think the whole meaning was behind the empty tomb?!

 

[Ahwatukee]

The Spirit of Christ in respect to our savoir Jesus, is the eternal source of spirit life. he has no beginnig of days or end of spirit life
What you see temporarily is not what you get. Incorruptible God has no form.

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Then unfortunately, you are just ignoring the literal meaning of scripture.

 

[abcdef]

My Brother Ahwatukee,

The dragon, Rev 20:2,

has 7 heads and 10 horns, Rev 12:3, Rev 17:3, Rome.

 

[Ahwatukee]

My Brother Ahwatukee,

The dragon, Rev 20:2,

has 7 heads and 10 horns, Rev 12:3, Rev 17:3, Rome.

Hello John,

Here is who the dragon is and his characteristics:

"And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."

"The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Who's the dragon John? Read the scripture above. Who's the dragon? Come on, read it with me! That great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan. Who's the dragon John? The scriptures above identify who he is, which is very simple to understand.

Who is the woman = The woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth.

When John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth.

What do the seven heads of the dragon represent?

"The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits."

The seven hills are where the woman's headquarters is, which represents the city of Rome and her counterfeit religious system. Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills.

"The seven heads also represent seven kings"

Five have fallen = At the time that John was receiving this information, five of those seven kings had ruled and gone.

One is = King number six was ruling at the time that John was receiving this information from the angel.

The other has not yet come = King number seven was future to John and in the past to us.

The beast who once was, now is not and yet will come, is an eighth king and belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. This coming king is that same beast that is let out of the Abyss at the 5th trumpet (Rev.9:11). He is the same beast that will kill the two witnesses at the end of their 3 1/2 years of prophesying (Rev.11:7). He is the same beast that Satan gives his seat, power and great authority to (Rev.13:2). The beast is that eighth king who comes up out of the Abyss and who receives the fatal wound and survives (Rev.13:3, 17:11). He is the same beast who will be captured and thrown into the lake of fire at the return of the Lord to end the age (Rev.19:20)

Who are the ten horns?:

"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

So, the ten horns of the beast represent ten kings who will be appointed as kings only after a short time.

As demonstrated, the dragon is Satan as a whole, with the seven heads and the ten horns being the characteristics of the dragon and are represented by everything that is defined above.

That said, the dragon is not Rome! The woman who rides the beast is Rome and her counterfeit church, with the seven heads being a succession of seven kings and the ten horns being ten future kings who will rule concurrently with the beast.

 

[JohnOne]

I study God's word in the original languages, in which they were inspired.

Clearly, it is you who has the false interpretation, as you attempt to muddle your way through with an English translation, ignoring the original, altogether...

So do I however I also compare scripture with scripture. We are to study to show ourselves approved unto God.

The casting out of heaven and the casting into bottomless pit are different as we see.

Most certainly, these are two separate events.....both, of which, have already occurred...

So according to you satan has been cast out of heaven already. Yet according to God's word lets see:

Ephesians 6:12 KJV For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 6:12 ForG3754 weG2254 wrestleG2076 G3823 notG3756 againstG4314 fleshG4561 andG2532 blood,G129 butG235 againstG4314 principalities,G746 againstG4314 powers,G1849 againstG4314 theG3588 rulersG2888 of theG3588 darknessG4655 of thisG5127 world,G165 againstG4314 spiritualG4152 wickednessG4189 inG1722 highG2032 places.

Greek word numbers to the right of each word. The Greek word number for high is G2032.

G2032 is Greek word ἐπουράνιος spelled epouranios, pronounced ep-oo-ran'-ee-os From G1909 and G3772; IT MEANS above the sky: - celestial, (in) heaven (-ly), high.

John states that the work of Satan has continued from the beginning and remains the same even after the Cross of Christ. Therefore, while Satan’s defeat is assured, he was still at work years after the New Covenant was established.


1 John 3:8 KJV He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning..........................

If Satan has been operating the same way from the beginning, does that mean Satan still has access to the throne of God in heaven today? We will see that Satan still has access to the heavenly throne accusing the saints as he has from the beginning.

Job 16:19 Also now, behold, my witness is in heaven, and my record is on high.

Romans 8:33-34 KJV Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

From the time of Job to the New Testament someone has been accusing the saints and someone has been interceding for them.

Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Satan is our accuser and Christ is our advocate.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that NOW WORKETH in the children of disobedience:







2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

 

[JohnOne]

Hello John,

Here is who the dragon is and his characteristics:

I hope your not saying John as in me cause it was not me who made the post you just quoted and replyed to but said hello John to. lol The poster is abcdef. Unless that is his name and I misunderstood.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I hope your not saying John as in me cause it was not me who made the post you just quoted and replyed to but said hello John to. lol The poster is abcdef. Unless that is his name and I misunderstood.

No, it is not you. You did not write the above quote, did you? You are correct, it is the one whose avatar is "abcdef" His actual name is John, which is why I we include the quotes.

 

[Ahwatukee]

So do I however I also compare scripture with scripture. We are to study to show ourselves approved unto God.





So according to you satan has been cast out of heaven already. Yet according to God's word lets see:

Ephesians 6:12 KJV For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Eph 6:12 ForG3754 weG2254 wrestleG2076 G3823 notG3756 againstG4314 fleshG4561 andG2532 blood,G129 butG235 againstG4314 principalities,G746 againstG4314 powers,G1849 againstG4314 theG3588 rulersG2888 of theG3588 darknessG4655 of thisG5127 world,G165 againstG4314 spiritualG4152 wickednessG4189 inG1722 highG2032 places.

Greek word numbers to the right of each word. The Greek word number for high is G2032.

G2032 is Greek word ἐπουράνιος spelled epouranios, pronounced ep-oo-ran'-ee-os From G1909 and G3772; IT MEANS above the sky: - celestial, (in) heaven (-ly), high.

John states that the work of Satan has continued from the beginning and remains the same even after the Cross of Christ. Therefore, while Satan’s defeat is assured, he was still at work years after the New Covenant was established.


1 John 3:8 KJV He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning..........................

If Satan has been operating the same way from the beginning, does that mean Satan still has access to the throne of God in heaven today? We will see that Satan still has access to the heavenly throne accusing the saints as he has from the beginning.

Job 16:19 Also now, behold, my witness is in heaven, and my record is on high.

Romans 8:33-34 KJV Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

From the time of Job to the New Testament someone has been accusing the saints and someone has been interceding for them.

Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Satan is our accuser and Christ is our advocate.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that NOW WORKETH in the children of disobedience:







2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Hello Johnone,

Just FYI, Bowman is an amillennialist, which means that he ignores the literal context of scripture and opts for spiritualizing them. He believes that we are currently living in the thousand year reign of Christ, which they do not believe as being a literal thousand years. According to them, most end-time events have already taken place and their reasoning for this is centered around the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. Their spiritualizing of scripture makes it pretty much impossible to convince them of anything that scripture actually says and means. Regarding this, they have a distortion or circumvention for every Biblical topic. I'm afraid that they won't believe until scripture begins to take place literally right before their very eyes, if even that!

Remember what Paul said regarding Hymenaeus and Philetus who were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place. This group is believing and teaching the same thing and therefore, what they are teaching is godless chatter which has spread like gangrene, and who destroyed the faith of some and whom Paul said had wander away from the truth.

The god of this world has blinded their eyes.

PS you forgot one:

"We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one."

 

[JohnOne]

Hello Johnone,

Just FYI, Bowman is an amillennialist, which means that he ignores the literal context of scripture and opts for spiritualizing them. He believes that we are currently living in the thousand year reign of Christ, which they do not believe as being a literal thousand years. According to them, most end-time events have already taken place and their reasoning for this is centered around the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. Their spiritualizing of scripture makes it pretty much impossible to convince them of anything that scripture actually says and means. Regarding this, they have a distortion or circumvention for every Biblical topic. I'm afraid that they won't believe until scripture begins to take place literally right before their very eyes, if even that!

Remember what Paul said regarding Hymenaeus and Philetus who were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place. This group is believing and teaching the same thing and therefore, what they are teaching is godless chatter which has spread like gangrene, and who destroyed the faith of some and whom Paul said had wander away from the truth.

The god of this world has blinded their eyes.

PS you forgot one:

"We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one."

Yep and many more verses. Thank you. So I guess they believe the first resurrection has taken place. Whewww!! Thats a difficult one because according to God's word there are only two resurrections and if the first one took place all thats left is damnation of the unjust. So they are teaching no hope then. Hmm what I stated from beginning.

Joh_5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Act_24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

 

[JohnOne]

Maybe I should touch upon when revelation was penned both outside and inside of scripture. Yea lets clarify for those who are studying for truth.

 

[JohnOne]

External Evidence


The external evidence for the late dating of Revelation is of the highest quality.


Irenaeus


Irenaeus (A.D. 180), a student of Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John), wrote that the apocalyptic vision “was seen not very long ago, almost in our own generation, at the close of the reign of Domitian” (Against Heresies 30). The testimony of Irenaeus, not far removed from the apostolic age, is first rate. He places the book near the end of Domitian’s reign, and that ruler died in A.D. 96. Irenaeus seems to be unaware of any other view for the date of the book of Revelation.


Clement of Alexandria


Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 155-215) says that John returned from the isle of Patmos “after the tyrant was dead” (Who Is the Rich Man? 42), and Eusebius, known as the “Father of Church History,” identifies the “tyrant” as Domitian (Ecclesiastical History III.23).


Even Moses Stuart, America’s most prominent preterist, admitted that the “tyrant here meant is probably Domitian.” Within this narrative, Clement further speaks of John as an “old man.” If Revelation was written prior to A.D. 70, it would scarcely seem appropriate to refer to John as an old man, since he would only have been in his early sixties at this time.


Victorinus


Victorinus (late third century), author of the earliest commentary on the book of Revelation, wrote:


When John said these things, he was in the island of Patmos, condemned to the mines by Caesar Domitian. There he saw the Apocalypse; and when at length grown old, he thought that he should receive his release by suffering; but Domitian being killed, he was liberated (Commentary on Revelation 10:11).


Jerome


Jerome (A.D. 340-420) said,


In the fourteenth then after Nero, Domitian having raised up a second persecution, he [John] was banished to the island of Patmos, and wrote the Apocalypse (Lives of Illustrious Men 9).
To all of this may be added the comment of Eusebius, who contends that the historical tradition of his time (A.D. 324) placed the writing of the Apocalypse at the close of Domitian’s reign (III.18). McClintock and Strong, in contending for the later date, declare that “there is no mention in any writer of the first three centuries of any other time or place” (1969, 1064). Upon the basis of external evidence, therefore, there is little contest between the earlier and later dates.


Internal Evidence
The contents of the book of Revelation also suggest a late date, as the following observations indicate.


The spiritual conditions of the churches described in Revelation chapters two and three more readily harmonize with the late date.


The church in Ephesus, for instance, was not founded by Paul until the latter part of Claudius’s reign: and when he wrote to them from Rome, A.D. 61, instead of reproving them for any want of love, he commends their love and faith (Eph. 1:15) (Horne 1841, 382).


Yet, when Revelation was written, in spite of the fact that the Ephesians had been patient (2:2), they had also left their first love (v. 4), and this would seem to require a greater length of time than seven or eight years, as suggested by the early date.


Another internal evidence of a late date is that this book was penned while John was banished to Patmos (1:9). It is well known that Domitian had a fondness for this type of persecution. If, however, this persecution is dated in the time of Nero, how does one account for the fact that Peter and Paul are murdered, yet John is only exiled to an island? (Eusebius III.18; II.25).


Then consider this fact. The church at Laodicea is represented as existing under conditions of great wealth. She was rich and had need of nothing (3:17). In A.D. 60, though, Laodicea had been almost entirely destroyed by an earthquake. Surely it would have required more than eight or nine years for that city to have risen again to the state of affluence described in Revelation.


The doctrinal departures described in Revelation would appear to better fit the later dating. For example, the Nicolaitans (2:6, 15) were a full-fledged sect at the time of John’s writing, whereas they had only been hinted at in general terms in 2 Peter and Jude, which were written possibly around A.D. 65-66.


Persecution for professing the Christian faith is evidenced in those early letters to the seven churches of Asia Minor. For instance, Antipas had been killed in Pergamum (2:13). It is generally agreed among scholars, however, that Nero’s persecution was mostly confined to Rome; further, it was not for religious reasons (Harrison 1964, 446).

So as we can see claiming that all this happened in 70 a.d. is false both inside and outside of scripture.