Hell. It is in the Bible isnt it?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
G

Gr8grace

Guest
I don't know if this will be helpful or change your mind or anything, but I think of the punishment as just the realization that one is being sent away for a good long time. It is in the realization that one has missed out on all the good things God had planned for him. The pain will be from him kicking himself in the butt over how close he had been to having it all, but then turning and walking away.
He is not willing that any should perish. We have examples of satan and other fallen angels that are let loose for a time. satan is even put in the pit for a 1000 years and he comes back out guns ablazing.

I don't think that there are souls in the LoF that have regret. I believe that their hatred for the Lord Jesus Christ grows exponentially. These are souls that would still hate Jesus Christ after 1 billion years and would still not choose for Him.

IMO, at death, Jesus Christ gives unbelievers a perfect opportunity and explains the whole situation(He is not willing that any perish).Only the souls that are rock hard are going. And they don't get better............this is why religion and self righteousness is satans ace trump. religion causes rock hard hearts toward Jesus Christ and FREE grace.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
How would that "change my mind?" It is exactly what I believe "punishment" is all about. A GOOD LONG TIME of kicking yourself in the butt is not Eternity in torture.
Amen. I don't buy into the torture concept either. Eternal regret is punishment indeed. God has no pleasure in sending away the wicked. The Bible says He is long suffering, not willing that any should perish. The battle seems to center over that little word 'perish'. Everybody seems to be doing Greek word studies on it.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
Amen. I'm glad He finally became humble enough to go home.

Like your astronomy avatar pic. The gigantic glow-in-the-dark clock that God created for all of us.
Indeed :) yea it is pretty cool how God created these signs in the heavens for telling time traveling and the like.

Speaking about signs and all just yesterday I had a dragon eye I didn't think much of it, it was just amusing but for someone else in another post I was chatting with it was a sign to them "that's what they implied they felt" that I'm a lizard alien from space because I have ET at the end of my profile name I about fell out it was so funny, I've never in my life was concerned with conspiracy stuff that's just foolish to me though that's my opinion lol it's was to funny.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,374
113
Hello Kedge,

Today many Christians believe that the story of the rich man and Lazarus is a historical account of two individuals’ literal experiences in the afterlife. Based on this belief, some people teach that those who are consigned to the fiery torments of hell will never stop burning throughout all eternity. As with the parable of the trees and the bramble (Judges 9:8-15), however, serious problems arise with a literal interpretation of the story elements.

Let's check this claim out as to whether or not "the rich man and Lazarus" is a parable or an actual event, by comparing it to an actual known parable:

The parable of the wheat and weeds:
"
The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

“ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ “ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ ”

* The man who sowed good seed in his field = The Son of Man (Jesus)

* The field = the world

* Good seed = people of the kingdom

* The weeds = people of the evil one

* Enemy who sows the weeds = the devil

* The harvest = The end of the age

* The harvesters = The angels

=============================

The Rich Man and Lazarus:

"
“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’


“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they
will not also come to this place of torment.’ “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ “ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

* The rich man = The rich man who fared well every day

* Lazarus the poor beggar = Lazarus the poor beggar who desired to eat crumbs from the rich man's table

* By Abraham's side = Father Abraham's side (bosom)

* Hades = Hades, its location being under the earth, properly, the unseen place

* Torment = ὀδυνάω: torment, pain; mid. and pass: I am tormented, pained; I suffer acute pain, physical or mental.

* Fire = because I am in agony in this fire

* A great chasm between us and you = so that no one can cross over from either side

* Five brothers = To warn so that they don't come to this place of torment

* Moses and the Prophets = Moses and the OT Prophets

* Death = Physical death

* Angels = Angels


In the parable of the wheat and weeds, symbolism represents the literal. In the rich man and Lazarus, real names and persons are used, the rich man, Lazarus, Moses, the prophets, the rich man's five brothers and the literal place of Hades. If someone wanted to try to make a parable out of the rich man and Lazarus, it would have to be forced and by conjecture. In keeping with the characteristics of a parable, Abraham, Moses, the prophets, Lazarus, Hades, and the chasm, would all have to by symbolisms representing something literal. So you see, the event of the rich man and Lazarus reads nothing at all like the parable of the weeds and wheat or any other parable.

Abraham, Lazarus and the rich man were in Sheol/Hades, which is under the earth and which had two compartments separated by a great chasm so that neither side could pass over to either side.

We know that Hades is a literal place because at the end of the thousand years, the spirits/souls of the unrighteous dead receive resurrected bodies and stand before God at the great white throne judgment (Dan.12:2, John 5:28-29, Rev.20:11-15). Jesus also reveals where the literal location of Hades is ( Mt.11:23).

The only reason that anyone would claim that the rich man and Lazarus is a parable, is because if it is literal, then it destroys their adopted belief of there being no torment in flame and the belief of soul-sleep. Same reason people claim that the comma is in the wrong place when Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Lazarus and the rich man was a literal event that took place, as revealed by the Lord.

Can we believe that all the saints are even now gathered in Abraham’s bosom?
"If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body." (Phil.1:23)

"Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. For we live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord." (2 Cor.5:6-8)

According to the above scriptures, when a believer in Christ dies, their spirit/soul departs and goes immediately to be in the presence of the Lord. When the unrighteous die, like the rich man, they go into Hades only to be resurrected out and to stand before God at the great white throne to be judged (Rev.20:11-15)

The rich man proclaimed that he was in torment in flame and Abraham stated that Lazarus was comforted, a place of paradise.

The rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus back up to the earth to his father's to warn his five brothers




































 
Last edited:

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,374
113
That's not what Jesus said! (Luke 8:11)

“This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God..."
"The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one,"

This is the actual verse. You are looking at a different parable.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,374
113
That's not what Jesus said! (Luke 8:11)

“This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God..."
Also, I clearly stated that the parable was from Mt.13, not Luke 8:31
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
58,690
28,081
113
Apr 22, 2016
1,218
12
0
;)


Hi Magenta,

Well, it is stated that the punishment is in the lake of fire, so I believe that would qualify as torment, don't you? And since the word "Aionios" is used for both the righteous and the wicked, they must mean the same for both parties, wouldn't you agree? And since we know that eternal life is on-going, conscious existence in eternity with God, then eternal punishment would also have to be on-going, conscious existence in separation from God. And that separation is defined as being in torment in flame.

Please dont tell me you are going purple. Say it isnt so!! :p
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
Hello Kedge,




Let's check this claim out as to whether or not "the rich man and Lazarus" is a parable or an actual event, by comparing it to an actual known parable:

The parable of the wheat and weeds:
"
The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

“ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ “ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ ”

* The man who sowed good seed in his field = The Son of Man (Jesus)

* The field = the world

* Good seed = people of the kingdom

* The weeds = people of the evil one

* Enemy who sows the weeds = the devil

* The harvest = The end of the age

* The harvesters = The angels

=============================

The Rich Man and Lazarus:

"
“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’


“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they
will not also come to this place of torment.’ “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ “ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

* The rich man = The rich man who fared well every day

* Lazarus the poor beggar = Lazarus the poor beggar who desired to eat crumbs from the rich man's table

* By Abraham's side = Father Abraham's side (bosom)

* Hades = Hades, its location being under the earth, properly, the unseen place

* Torment = ὀδυνάω: torment, pain; mid. and pass: I am tormented, pained; I suffer acute pain, physical or mental.

* Fire = because I am in agony in this fire

* A great chasm between us and you = so that no one can cross over from either side

* Five brothers = To warn so that they don't come to this place of torment

* Moses and the Prophets = Moses and the OT Prophets

* Death = Physical death

* Angels = Angels


In the parable of the wheat and weeds, symbolism represents the literal. In the rich man and Lazarus, real names and persons are used, the rich man, Lazarus, Moses, the prophets, the rich man's five brothers and the literal place of Hades. If someone wanted to try to make a parable out of the rich man and Lazarus, it would have to be forced and by conjecture. In keeping with the characteristics of a parable, Abraham, Moses, the prophets, Lazarus, Hades, and the chasm, would all have to by symbolisms representing something literal. So you see, the event of the rich man and Lazarus reads nothing at all like the parable of the weeds and wheat or any other parable.

Abraham, Lazarus and the rich man were in Sheol/Hades, which is under the earth and which had two compartments separated by a great chasm so that neither side could pass over to either side.

We know that Hades is a literal place because at the end of the thousand years, the spirits/souls of the unrighteous dead receive resurrected bodies and stand before God at the great white throne judgment (Dan.12:2, John 5:28-29, Rev.20:11-15). Jesus also reveals where the literal location of Hades is ( Mt.11:23).

The only reason that anyone would claim that the rich man and Lazarus is a parable, is because if it is literal, then it destroys their adopted belief of there being no torment in flame and the belief of soul-sleep. Same reason people claim that the comma is in the wrong place when Jesus said, "Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Lazarus and the rich man was a literal event that took place, as revealed by the Lord.



"If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body." (Phil.1:23)

"Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. For we live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord." (2 Cor.5:6-8)

According to the above scriptures, when a believer in Christ dies, their spirit/soul departs and goes immediately to be in the presence of the Lord. When the unrighteous die, like the rich man, they go into Hades only to be resurrected out and to stand before God at the great white throne to be judged (Rev.20:11-15)

The rich man proclaimed that he was in torment in flame and Abraham stated that Lazarus was comforted, a place of paradise.

The rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus back up to the earth to his father's to warn his five brothers




































Not in the least. It was a parable.
 
Apr 22, 2016
1,218
12
0
And to some that is all it is, sinners preaching, preaching scare tactics. There is no real proof that upon death of a bad person that they will burn in hell for all eternity, someone could interpret it that way but that does not mean it is the truth, some Christians believe in hellfire some don't, yet many claim this is the truth from the Bible, obviously someone is right and someone is wrong, but which one is the truth and which is not the truth?
Theres really only one way to find out!

Romans 10:9-10
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
58,690
28,081
113
Not in the least. It was a parable.
Exactly so, given at the end of a string of parables, starting with a lost sheep (which is rejoiced over when found), then a lost coin (which is rejoiced over when found), then a lost son (who was restored and rejoiced over), the parable of the shrewd manager, and finally the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, equated to the loss of one's very soul for refusing to do God's will, which is to accept His plan for humanity through the propitiatory sacrifice of His beloved sinless Son on the cross as the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world.
 
Last edited:

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,374
113
Amen. I don't buy into the torture concept either. Eternal regret is punishment indeed. God has no pleasure in sending away the wicked. The Bible says He is long suffering, not willing that any should perish. The battle seems to center over that little word 'perish'. Everybody seems to be doing Greek word studies on it.
Hello oyster67,

The reference to God not being willing that any should perish, means that he wants them to come to repentance and receive His Son so that they won't perish, otherwise they will. Since the wicked are going into everlasting fire, would not being in flame constitute torment? All of the words in the context support each other in order to give a clear meaning of what type of punishment the wicked will suffer. Everlasting fire should be enough to convey that message, but for whatever reason, there are those who just cannot comprehend those two words. An unbeliever could read those two words and understand their combined meaning.

The battle seems to center over that little word 'perish'. Everybody seems to be doing Greek word studies on it.
The reason for the above, is because it is the original Greek word that gives us the meaning. Sometimes translated words do not convey the correct meaning. For example, the word "Apollumi" translate "destroy" means "complete loss of well being, ruination." But because of the translated word "Destroy" people apply annihilation or non-existence to it and that is not what it means. It is very important to study these words. And even when being a good Stewart of the word of God and pointing these truths out, people still will not believe, as we have seen on this forum.
 
Apr 22, 2016
1,218
12
0
This is what I am trying to do, but many Christians from what I can see are aware that they need to understand what the Bible teaches, so this too is what I am doing to the best of my ability, plus, I can not know it all on my own, no man can. This is what I have found when searching, Matthew 13:34 Jesus spoke all these things to the crowds in parables. He did not tell them anything without using a parable. Jesus always used stories and illustrations like these when speaking to the crowds. In fact, he never spoke to them without using such parables. So I have to read the Bible to understand it but I can never be sure that what I think it is saying is in fact the truth, that is why I believe it is important to understand the Bible as a collective mind than go it solo.

So clearly it looks as if those that are seeking the truth need to search for it in the Bible (obviously) I am not a Bible expert, I am not a know-it-all, I am struggling to understand what Jesus was saying in His parables let alone anything else, hence the collective minds.


Yes this is heart warming, many including yourself help others to see that Jesus is life, but this does not tell us what hell really is.

This shows a loving Creator God.


this is what someone else said on the internet,


So let me get this straight. Our God of LOVE is going to torture the lost with fire for the ceaseless ages to come? And all for a SHORT life of sin, in a body that is PRONE to sin because of the fall of Adam and Eve? Does this sound like love?

Kedge,
You are putting the cart before the horse. Why indulge in christian discussion when you are yet to be in the family of God? I posted scripture for you way back on a page where I showed you that the Holy Spirit does the teaching and the guiding .
I know I didnt entertain myself with these kind of questions and discussion before God saved me. I simply surrendered to him in Faith. It was a process and it still is.
You will be on that confused road as long as you listen to one camp and then listen to another camp while you havent even walked through the door yet!
Ive never seen a cart pull a horse without some rather awkward moments! LOL

Just cry out to Jesus and ask him to save you! It will be the best thing you ever did. I can most assuredly promise you that!

blessings...........


Luke 11:9-10

[SUP]9[/SUP]"So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. [SUP]10[/SUP]For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

Jesus will meet you right where you are! Cry out to Jesus!!

[video=youtube_share;JmVxRl5bc4Y]http://youtu.be/JmVxRl5bc4Y[/video]
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,374
113
Exactly so, given at the end of a string of parables, starting with a lost sheep (which is rejoiced over when found), then a lost coin (which is rejoiced over when found), then a lost son (who was restored and rejoiced over), the parable of the shrewd manager, and finally the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, equated to the loss of one's very soul for refusing to do God's will, which is to accept His plan for humanity through the propitiatory sacrifice of His beloved sinless Son on the cross as the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world.
That's not gonna fly Magenta! Here is what is in between those parables and the event of the rich man and Lazarus:

“The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

“Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

These above are not parables and the rich man and Lazarus follows them. What is really sad is that you guys didn't consider anything that I provided, that literal names and the real location of Hades are used in the rich man and Lazarus. Parables use symbolism to represent what is literal. The rich man and Lazarus uses real names and the literal place of Hades, which is mentioned elsewhere in scripture.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
58,690
28,081
113
That's not gonna fly Magenta! Here is what is in between those parables and the event of the rich man and Lazarus:

“The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it. It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

“Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

These above are not parables and the rich man and Lazarus follows them. What is really sad is that you guys didn't consider anything that I provided, that literal names and the real location of Hades are used in the rich man and Lazarus. Parables use symbolism to represent what is literal. The rich man and Lazarus uses real names and the literal place of Hades, which is mentioned elsewhere in scripture.
What is really sad is that you cannot accept the literal meaning of the very plain words, "The soul that sinneth shall die." Many times this truth is stated and you reject it, turning the words for utterly destroy into something else, some people call it eternal separation, when no such thing is taught in Scripture. How many times and how many ways must it be said for you to accept that the soul that sins shall die, being dead and utterly destroyed? Yes, Jesus came to fulfill the law, and that is Christianity 101, isn't it? So we attempt to stand by our own merits and fail, and pass out of existence, or we accept the plan God has for humanity, glorifying God, and causing all of heaven to rejoice over the recovery of a lost sinner. This truth is given near the end of the string of parables, the last of which shows the dire consequences for refusing God's sovereignty. How many laws have you broken? Do you stand on your own merit before the Lord God and King? Your version of events means that not even coins or sheep can be real since they are given in parable form. Ridiculous! The parables build up in importance to the loss of one's very soul as the dire consequence of not accepting the great Truth found in none other than Jesus Christ our Lord, Who holds the keys to life and death. If your name is not found in the Lamb's book of life, you do not remain alive so He can torture and torment you for the rest of eternity. To hold to such doctrine is to turn God into a sadistic monster. When all things are made new, sin will no longer exist, nor will sinners, in any way, shape, or form. He, Jesus Christ, is alive forever, and we are either found in Him, covered by His righteous blood to live a more abundant life untainted by the curse of sin and death, or are removed from His wonderful creation. To that end we should all look forward and rejoice over the promise of Scripture that all the old things shall pass away, and everything be made anew. Praise God for His great riches and wonder!
 
Last edited:
Mar 20, 2015
768
13
0
Kedge,
You are putting the cart before the horse. Why indulge in christian discussion when you are yet to be in the family of God?
There are already Christians who say they are in the family of God and yet they say that hellfire is a myth, Christianity is divided on Bible matters and that is plain to see, even if I became a Christian I would still question the alleged place called hell that the unrighteous burn in for all eternity, many long serving Christians disagree with the doctrine of hellfire as a place of eternal suffering for the wicked.





you havent even walked through the door yet!
But others have and for a long time and they claim they have Holy Spirit and it is these ones that say hellfire is a myth.

Just cry out to Jesus and ask him to save you! It will be the best thing you ever did. I can most assuredly promise you that!
Well I am reading through Matthew at the moment and I can already see that Jesus spoke in riddles; even the followers of Jesus were took to one side in private to explain matters. According to others and what they have said... "The fact that the apostles were first century Mediterranean Jews who lived and listened to Jesus for three straight years, but who were still confused by Jesus’ parables should give us hope that if they were confused, it is okay for us to be confused as well."
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
58,690
28,081
113
Well I am reading through Matthew at the moment and I can already see that Jesus spoke in riddles; even the followers of Jesus were took to one side in private to explain matters. According to others and what they have said... "The fact that the apostles were first century Mediterranean Jews who lived and listened to Jesus for three straight years, but who were still confused by Jesus’ parables should give us hope that if they were confused, it is okay for us to be confused as well."
Amen, and Jesus affirms what you have said, for He told us He spoke in parables that people would not understand, and turn to Him to be healed (made whole in Him), and the reason I fathom is because they are not ready, yet I believe you are on your way, as you strike me as a sincere seeker, humble and willing to learn, and God desires those who are willing to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. The Truth is found in Jesus Christ. Look to Him, turn your attention to Him in your mind's eye and within the depths of your very being, your heart of hearts, meditate upon Him and His great love for you. I pray you encounter the Living Lord of Lords. God, I pray Your Spirit moves upon the heart of Kedge, that his eyes may be opened to the Truth of Your Word, and he surrenders to Your will for his life, in laying down his opposition to You, accepting You as sovereign, and Jesus Christ as King of Kings and the center of Truth in his life, amen.
 
Mar 20, 2015
768
13
0
What is really sad is that you guys didn't consider anything that I provided, that literal names and the real location of Hades are used in the rich man and Lazarus.
I am listening to what you are saying and I take things at face value, what I observe though is that there are other Christians who disagree with others on the rich man and lazarus, for example....



Taken from the religious internet, there are lots of debates, Christians v Christians

Why would Jesus not plainly state that the story is a parable? First, let’s identify the audience. According to verse 14, Christ is speaking to the Pharisees. The Pharisees believed and taught many things that were not according to the Scriptures. Among them was that the Jews, upon their death, would go to Abraham’s bosom to live in paradise. This version of the belief in an immortal soul had its roots in the kingdom of Babylon, not in the Scriptures, and was not universally accepted by the Jewish people. (The Sadducees, another leading religious group, disbelieved in any resurrection at all.) Therefore, because Christ was speaking specifically to the Pharisees, He used their own language to emphasize His point.

The Pharisees also viewed earthly wealth as a sign of God’s favor. Thus, when Christ told the story about the rich man going to hell while the beggar found comfort in heaven, He was directly attacking this idea. In combination with the language of Abraham’s bosom, the Pharisees knew exactly what Christ meant: that the Pharisees were incorrect in their traditions, understandings, and teachings.

Christ repeatedly drew His listeners’ attention back to the Old Testament Scriptures (John 5:39, Matthew 22:29, Luke 24:27). Therefore, we should look at the abundance of Scriptural evidence that supports the sleep of death while awaiting the resurrection to draw our conclusions about death, rather than a single story that is illogical unless understood as a parable. Additionally, Christ Himself taught that the dead sleep in their graves until they hear His voice (John 5:25).

It is clear, then, that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus does not support the idea of immediate life in heaven or hell after death.
 
Mar 20, 2015
768
13
0
Amen, and Jesus affirms what you have said, for He told us He spoke in parables that people would not understand, and turn to Him to be healed (made whole in Him), and the reason I fathom is because they are not ready, yet I believe you are on your way, as you strike me as a sincere seeker, humble and willing to learn, and God desires those who are willing to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. The Truth is found in Jesus Christ. Look to Him, turn your attention to Him in your mind's eye and within the depths of your very being, your heart of hearts, meditate upon Him and His great love for you. I pray you encounter the Living Lord of Lords. God, I pray Your Spirit moves upon the heart of Kedge, that his eyes may be opened to the Truth of Your Word, and he surrenders to Your will for his life, in laying down his opposition to You, accepting You as sovereign, and Jesus Christ as King of Kings and the center of Truth in his life, amen.
I appreciate the kind words of encouragement, may it go well with you. What is also on my mind is which house of God do I congregate, hahaha!, One step at a time I hear a voice say.


Many thanks to all, perhaps I should go away for a while and study?