Hell. It is in the Bible isnt it?
- Thread starter MsSuzanna
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R
Umm, Magenta they did not break His legs, seeing that he was already dead.
Psalms 34
20 He guards all his bones;
Not one of them is broken
Psalms 22
13 They gape at Me with their mouths,
Like a raging and roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted within Me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.
16 For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced[a] My hands and My feet;
17 I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
18 They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.
Psalms 34
20 He guards all his bones;
Not one of them is broken
Psalms 22
13 They gape at Me with their mouths,
Like a raging and roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted within Me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.
16 For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced[a] My hands and My feet;
17 I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
18 They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.
I believe that 'must' indicates that even the damned soul must be clothed in something. Legion went into a bunch of pigs, for example. Most of the Christians that I have grown up with never talked much about this stuff because we just assumed that the persistence of a man's soul was a cut-and-dried issue.
I can at least now see how you rationalize your beliefs with Greek word studies. I would say that that the eternal damned will have some sort of material component.
I can at least now see how you rationalize your beliefs with Greek word studies. I would say that that the eternal damned will have some sort of material component.
G
If the Greek word "lou" was used, I would say annihilation or ceasing to exist has a solid foundation.
We have a very hard time using "apollumi" as ceasing to exist or being annihilated.
We do have an example of something that does cease to exist. And both "apollumi" and "lou" are used in the passage. And "luw" is definitely used for something that will no longer exist.
2 Peter 3:6~~9-12~~ "the world at that time was destroyed (apollumi/but still exists), being flooded with water. ... The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish (apollumi)but for all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed (LOU/luw/annihilated/dissolved/loose)with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 11 Since all these things are to be destroyed (LOU/annihilated/dissolved)in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens will be destroyed (LOU/Annihilated/dissolved)by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!"
The righteous and the wicked will be resurrected........in immortal clothes. One to eternal life and one to eternal death.
We have a very hard time using "apollumi" as ceasing to exist or being annihilated.
We do have an example of something that does cease to exist. And both "apollumi" and "lou" are used in the passage. And "luw" is definitely used for something that will no longer exist.
2 Peter 3:6~~9-12~~ "the world at that time was destroyed (apollumi/but still exists), being flooded with water. ... The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish (apollumi)but for all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed (LOU/luw/annihilated/dissolved/loose)with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 11 Since all these things are to be destroyed (LOU/annihilated/dissolved)in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens will be destroyed (LOU/Annihilated/dissolved)by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!"
The righteous and the wicked will be resurrected........in immortal clothes. One to eternal life and one to eternal death.
Last edited:
A
Before I was saved, people who preached hellfire at me, just made me either angry and defiant...all my friends and family weren't Christian,so Why,would I want to go to,a Heaven where they werent?
After,i accepted Jesus,it just made me sad because it caused folks to play pretend and be hyprocrites so God wouldn't punish them and let them in His big mansion...
I think it takes more than hellfire preaching to bring folks to God....His holy spirit has to convict them and show them why they need a savior.
After,i accepted Jesus,it just made me sad because it caused folks to play pretend and be hyprocrites so God wouldn't punish them and let them in His big mansion...
I think it takes more than hellfire preaching to bring folks to God....His holy spirit has to convict them and show them why they need a savior.
That is correct 
The point being made, tongue in cheek style, was that God did not promise eternal torment and torture to Adam for disobeying Him. What has been stated repeatedly throughout Scripture in a multitude of ways is that the wages of sin is death. Belief on the Lord Jesus is enough for one to pass from death into life. John 5:24
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes Him Who sent me
has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."
The point being made, tongue in cheek style, was that God did not promise eternal torment and torture to Adam for disobeying Him. What has been stated repeatedly throughout Scripture in a multitude of ways is that the wages of sin is death. Belief on the Lord Jesus is enough for one to pass from death into life. John 5:24"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes Him Who sent me
has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."
G
That is correct The point being made, tongue in cheek style, was that God did not promise eternal torment and torture to Adam for disobeying Him. What has been stated repeatedly throughout Scripture in a multitude of ways is that the wages of sin is death. Belief on the Lord Jesus is enough for one to pass from death into life. John 5:24
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes Him Who sent me
has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."
The point being made, tongue in cheek style, was that God did not promise eternal torment and torture to Adam for disobeying Him. What has been stated repeatedly throughout Scripture in a multitude of ways is that the wages of sin is death. Belief on the Lord Jesus is enough for one to pass from death into life. John 5:24"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes Him Who sent me
has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."
You are aware that there were 2 deaths described to Adam in Gods command not to eat of the fruit?........"dying, you shall surely die..."
Immediate spiritual death and 900 years later physical death.
Why? and why not? Is there not a cause?
1 Samuael 17:29 And David said, What have I now done? Is there not a cause?
I think have already pointed this out on the other thread. Let me figure some given verses here.
Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
This “destruction” is Eternal death which is the separation or alienation of the soul from God. It does not refer to cessation of respiration causing to the decomposition of the body (flesh) for no one is destroyed and at the same time enters in the gate.
Genesis 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
======================================================================================
Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
To destroy means to kill i.e. putting an end to its vital function. Thus we don’t fear those who can put an end to the flesh-”body” but unable to put an end to the soul. Only fear God who is able to put an end to both the soul and body in hell. I thought sometime that only the lost soul will go to hell and leave the body (flesh) in the graveyard, yet in here is also the body. So what’s the body is talking all about? Yes it is not the natural body but the spiritual body. This body of the lost does refer to the resurrected body with it soul. Yes, he can put both the body and soul in hell. Of course, this refers to the resurrection of the wicked dead to the Great White Throne Judgment.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
=======================================================================================
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the Greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which means to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish, make void.
Here is another look for the word “perish” as used in the bible. Scripture defines itself. Of course, I put scriptures above opinions. This put the word “perish” to mean to wound ones conscience, to offend resorting to the torment of the mind. Thus torment more than kill or destroy body and cease to breath.
1 Corinthians 8: 11-13 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those in the days of Noah (Luke 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all" (not tortured). And it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29) "destroyed them" (not tortured).
Whenever I think of Noah, it’s about water and whenever I think of the Sodom, it’s about fire, so that we have the Lake of Fire. The word “destroy” carries “end”. Thus, the end of the wicked or unrighteous will be in the Lake of Fire.
======================================================================================
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
So a person either receives eternal life, or they perish. Nothing about eternal torment there.
John 5:24, Jesus said
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
In a basketball world, the ball must be thrown to other players. Such common technique is used for a successful scoring move. Likewise, death passed to all men. It does not crossover. Here, is interesting about crossover dribble by Wiki.
A crossover dribble is a basketball maneuver in which a player dribbling the ball switches the ball rapidly from one hand to the other, to make a change in direction.[SUP][1][/SUP] In a typical example the player heads upcourt, dribbling the ball in (say) the left hand, then makes a wide step left with a good head fake. If the defender is deceived, the player can then switch to dribbling with the right hand and surpass the defender. The crossover can allow the player an open short jumper or a clear path to the basket.
Source: Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossover_dribble
=======================================================================================
1 Samuael 17:29 And David said, What have I now done? Is there not a cause?
I think have already pointed this out on the other thread. Let me figure some given verses here.
Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
This “destruction” is Eternal death which is the separation or alienation of the soul from God. It does not refer to cessation of respiration causing to the decomposition of the body (flesh) for no one is destroyed and at the same time enters in the gate.
Genesis 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
======================================================================================
Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
To destroy means to kill i.e. putting an end to its vital function. Thus we don’t fear those who can put an end to the flesh-”body” but unable to put an end to the soul. Only fear God who is able to put an end to both the soul and body in hell. I thought sometime that only the lost soul will go to hell and leave the body (flesh) in the graveyard, yet in here is also the body. So what’s the body is talking all about? Yes it is not the natural body but the spiritual body. This body of the lost does refer to the resurrected body with it soul. Yes, he can put both the body and soul in hell. Of course, this refers to the resurrection of the wicked dead to the Great White Throne Judgment.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
=======================================================================================
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the Greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which means to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish, make void.
Here is another look for the word “perish” as used in the bible. Scripture defines itself. Of course, I put scriptures above opinions. This put the word “perish” to mean to wound ones conscience, to offend resorting to the torment of the mind. Thus torment more than kill or destroy body and cease to breath.
1 Corinthians 8: 11-13 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?
But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those in the days of Noah (Luke 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all" (not tortured). And it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29) "destroyed them" (not tortured).
Whenever I think of Noah, it’s about water and whenever I think of the Sodom, it’s about fire, so that we have the Lake of Fire. The word “destroy” carries “end”. Thus, the end of the wicked or unrighteous will be in the Lake of Fire.
======================================================================================
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
So a person either receives eternal life, or they perish. Nothing about eternal torment there.
John 5:24, Jesus said
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
In a basketball world, the ball must be thrown to other players. Such common technique is used for a successful scoring move. Likewise, death passed to all men. It does not crossover. Here, is interesting about crossover dribble by Wiki.
A crossover dribble is a basketball maneuver in which a player dribbling the ball switches the ball rapidly from one hand to the other, to make a change in direction.[SUP][1][/SUP] In a typical example the player heads upcourt, dribbling the ball in (say) the left hand, then makes a wide step left with a good head fake. If the defender is deceived, the player can then switch to dribbling with the right hand and surpass the defender. The crossover can allow the player an open short jumper or a clear path to the basket.
Source: Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossover_dribble
=======================================================================================
Literally eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire, with the greatest part of the punishment, being eternal separation from God.
Just so you know, not everyone agrees. I have ran into LOTS of people who think a loving GOD will forgive and accept everyone into heaven, and some who think the punishment will be like a Prison Sentence that ends when the Sentence Time is up allowing you then to go to heaven, and even some that think the whole concept of hell is fiction.
So How do Interpret this:
Matthew 13:41-42 (NKJV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
[SUP]42 [/SUP] and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Now if I remember right, that WAILING and GNASHING, are in the Greek tense that implies a continuous action, and therefore the wailing and gnashing of teeth (bitterness towards God) go on, and on continually.
Yes, I know it says to fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell, but IT DOES NOT MENTION WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT PERSON'S "HUMAN SPIRIT". Spiritual Death, DOES NOT MEAN a non-functioning human spirit, but rather a human spirit that NEVER responds to the will of GOD, and is always in rebellion, bitter towards GOD. The exact opposite of being SPIRITUALLY ALIVE towards the LORD GOD our Savior.
Just so you know, not everyone agrees. I have ran into LOTS of people who think a loving GOD will forgive and accept everyone into heaven, and some who think the punishment will be like a Prison Sentence that ends when the Sentence Time is up allowing you then to go to heaven, and even some that think the whole concept of hell is fiction.
So How do Interpret this:
Matthew 13:41-42 (NKJV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
[SUP]42 [/SUP] and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Now if I remember right, that WAILING and GNASHING, are in the Greek tense that implies a continuous action, and therefore the wailing and gnashing of teeth (bitterness towards God) go on, and on continually.
Yes, I know it says to fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell, but IT DOES NOT MENTION WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT PERSON'S "HUMAN SPIRIT". Spiritual Death, DOES NOT MEAN a non-functioning human spirit, but rather a human spirit that NEVER responds to the will of GOD, and is always in rebellion, bitter towards GOD. The exact opposite of being SPIRITUALLY ALIVE towards the LORD GOD our Savior.
God is good all the time because none is good but Him alone as the scripture says. Now when God created the heaven and the earth and all that are within, God says he created it was good. So as the Creator creates the earth is for the purpose of dwelling of His creation. Earth is intended for man’s dwelling for eternity had not been sin entered. The sin caused the fallen man to be separated from God. The separation is what we call death. Death could be either physical or spiritual. Physical death means the separation of soul and spirit from the body, which soul if not saved will be separated from God (spiritual) for eternity in hell. You don’t have to settle to those people who will have to die not knowing Christ or the Bible. Someone will come to their rescue. God knows more than what we think. Certainly we cannot fathom the wisdom of God, he created man not like a robot and actually, hell is not prepared for man originally but for Satan and his co-host. But for sure, I really don’t know if you have a true intention or have an honest question. Anyway, this is a late response and honestly I don’t know if you still buy this one, since many of the thread or issues goes here are mostly hangs to one corner and are unresolved. Happy viewing!
Psalms 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him
Gen.1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Psalms 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him
Gen.1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
Last edited:
Hello VCO,
How's it going in your new home? Doing well I hope. Regarding the above, the only thing that I would add is that, at the end of the thousand years, the unrighteous dead--like those in Christ--will also receive a resurrected body at the great white throne judgment, where they will be cast into the lake of fire in that indestructible resurrected body (Rev.20:11-15)
"The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended" (Unrighteous dead)
"The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done."
Therefore, at the end of the thousand years, at the GWTJ, the unrighteous dead also receive a resurrected body and those bodies are what they exist in, in the lake of fire.
How's it going in your new home? Doing well I hope. Regarding the above, the only thing that I would add is that, at the end of the thousand years, the unrighteous dead--like those in Christ--will also receive a resurrected body at the great white throne judgment, where they will be cast into the lake of fire in that indestructible resurrected body (Rev.20:11-15)
"The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended" (Unrighteous dead)
"The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done."
Therefore, at the end of the thousand years, at the GWTJ, the unrighteous dead also receive a resurrected body and those bodies are what they exist in, in the lake of fire.
What others say.... Jesus could not have been with the thief in heavenly paradise that Friday if He had still not ascended to the Father on Sunday. Is this a contradiction? It would seem to be so on the surface. But what if the comma was after the word today instead of before it? The meaning would change completely.
Jesus could not have been with the thief in heavenly paradise that Friday if He had still not ascended to the Father on Sunday. Is this a contradiction? It would seem to be so on the surface. But what if the comma was after the word today instead of before it? The meaning would change completely.
According to what other say on the topic,
It makes a big difference where the comma is placed. There is a story of a wealthy man whose wife sent him a telegram asking if she could buy a very expensive item. He sent the reply, "No, price too high." Unfortunately the telegraph operator left the comma out of the message. When the wife received the message, "No price too high," she happily went and bought the expensive item.
This story illustrates the importance of correct punctuation. If the punctuation is off by even one word it can mean something entirely different.
[h=3]Conclusion[/h] The Scriptures are clear that Christ had not ascended to the Father on Sunday morning. Therefore, He could not have been with the thief in paradise on Friday. This means that the Bible translators incorrectly placed the comma before the word today instead of after it.
Jesus could not have been with the thief in heavenly paradise that Friday if He had still not ascended to the Father on Sunday. Is this a contradiction? It would seem to be so on the surface. But what if the comma was after the word today instead of before it? The meaning would change completely.
According to what other say on the topic,
It makes a big difference where the comma is placed. There is a story of a wealthy man whose wife sent him a telegram asking if she could buy a very expensive item. He sent the reply, "No, price too high." Unfortunately the telegraph operator left the comma out of the message. When the wife received the message, "No price too high," she happily went and bought the expensive item.
This story illustrates the importance of correct punctuation. If the punctuation is off by even one word it can mean something entirely different.
[h=3]Conclusion[/h] The Scriptures are clear that Christ had not ascended to the Father on Sunday morning. Therefore, He could not have been with the thief in paradise on Friday. This means that the Bible translators incorrectly placed the comma before the word today instead of after it.
And to some that is all it is, sinners preaching, preaching scare tactics. There is no real proof that upon death of a bad person that they will burn in hell for all eternity, someone could interpret it that way but that does not mean it is the truth, some Christians believe in hellfire some don't, yet many claim this is the truth from the Bible, obviously someone is right and someone is wrong, but which one is the truth and which is not the truth?
Last edited: