Can a christian lose their salvation

[JohnOne]

Abraham believed in the Lord and


Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.


Romans 4:20-22 KJV He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.



Malachi 3:6 KJV For I am the LORD, I change not...................

 

[notuptome]

God is not taking his gift back , they are departing from it and casting it off.

You can't leave a building you were never in, you can't depart from a bus you were never on.


1 Timothy 4:1 KJV Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

by grace are ye saved THROUGH FAITH, without faith there is no grace.


1 Timothy 5:11-12 KJV But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; 12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

They cast off their first faith and as a result have damnation ( the opposite of which is salvation )

They cast off their first FAITH. They had faith and cast it off.

You certainly read a lot into these passages. No where does it indicate that the faith which they cast off is saving faith. You know the kind that comes from hearing Gods word. The faith here is the teaching that widows act in certain expected ways. Nothing says they ceased to believe in God or Christ only they chaffed against restrictions on their conduct. Their condemnation was not loss of eternal life but the grief and pain that comes from sin including loss of reputation which casts Christianity in a bad light.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God is not taking his gift back , they are departing from it and casting it off.

Thats just a fancy way of saying God has to take his gift back.

You still have God giving something he calls a gift, and eternal. then make him have to go back on his word (it is not really eternal)

You can't leave a building you were never in, you can't depart from a bus you were never on.

Exactly, And you can't lose a salvation you never had (see 1 John)

1 Timothy 4:1 KJV Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

This is talking about the falling away of the church, not induviduals. We see this happening today with all the false churches and false prophets springing up a over the eplace.

by grace are ye saved THROUGH FAITH, without faith there is no grace.

Oh, there is grace, if there were not, you and i woulld never have been allowed to live as long as we have, we would have been wiped out our first sin.

without faith, there is no salvation, But there is grace.. Having grace does not mean we are saved, Every man and woman alive today are aive and given the chance to repent because of grace..

1 Timothy 5:11-12 KJV But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; 12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

They cast off their first faith and as a result have damnation ( the opposite of which is salvation )

They cast off their first FAITH. They had faith and cast it off.

The context is honoring true widows. Please.. You want to use this to prove one can lose salvation. Paul is speaking of future tense there either way, He says do not allow them because they are young, And will leave the church to find a man (casting of their first faith)

ie, don;t give them a place of office or authority..

 

[Grace777x70]

God is not taking his gift back , they are departing from it and casting it off.

You can't leave a building you were never in, you can't depart from a bus you were never on.


1 Timothy 4:1 KJV Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

by grace are ye saved THROUGH FAITH, without faith there is no grace.


1 Timothy 5:11-12 KJV But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; 12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

They cast off their first faith and as a result have damnation ( the opposite of which is salvation )

They cast off their first FAITH. They had faith and cast it off.

Here is what that scripture is saying...sometimes things in the old english are mis-leading.

It is so important to read scriptures in context or that "text" will "con" you as the saying goes....

1 Timothy 5:11-12 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But refuse to put younger widows on the list, for when they feel sensual desires in disregard of Christ, they want to get married,

[SUP]12 [/SUP] thus incurring condemnation, because they have set aside their previous pledge.

This scripture is not saying that young widows that marry are in "damnation" and that they will spend eternity in hell separated from God - that's ridiculous.

There are many good commentaries that give meaning to this verse. It is talking about a widow that the church is supporting and what all that means.

1 Tim 5:12 = KJV They cast off their first faith = because they, the widoes have set aside their previous pledge. Widows that marry again do not go to hell.

All kinds of nonsense comes when we don't look at scriptures in context.

 

[slave]

Let's ask the right questions: "Where does my Salvation come from?" Jesus Christ on and after the Cross via God - right? And God's Word says if I have the Son I have life - right? And (John 3:36) tells us that exact same message followed directly with ... "Whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

So it's simple. If we remain in Jesus we are guaranteed Salvation. If we, by the power God has placed in our will, redirect ourselves from Jesus, we will stop then by our newly acquired familiar old nature of the beast to disobey Him all over again, for the power of sin is not dead, it is only dead, and completely dead I might add, in the power of Jesus Christ which I am hidden in, and flourish from. If we do this, the wrath of God is still upon us. "If we remain in Christ..." as many have posted over and over in here we have it, but people always want to bye-pass the "if". Salvation is not a Vegas Chip, nor is Jesus a Vegas Chip you hand in to get more cool stuff; namely Heaven, having not crossed from death into life, having been crucified in Christ and been reborn, not having gone from the Old and travelled into the New where all things passed away from the Old, and all things become new in the New man., which in reality is nothing short of radical transformation, supernaturally so and ongoingly Supernormal.

"It is a commitment, an oath, and an understanding we have been boughten with a price which could be slavery but the owner of our ticket is the way, the truth , and the life bearing God who loves us and who created us to be loved by Him, and to share in His glory." The thing we can never do in saving ourselves; Jesus did on our behalf and offers to us to God; (whom is Himself God).

But remember Gods purpose in it. To have us in a "correct relationship with Him once again." Sin and its Characteristics and its position on God is still here, and the two Spirits won't mix; ever! So, the question isn't is Salvation secure, for that is absolutely secure in what Jesus did, He is as secure as secure gets. The right question is, "Are you in a right relationship with God thru being hidden in Jesus Christ, or not?" (And not, hidden from sin for God to see, but hidden in Christ whom events godly living always). If we are in Christ, then, even when we make mistakes, we can confess our sins and He will cleanse-up our wrongs, Your Salvation is not lost, nor even harmed for He cleanses us from ALL unrighteousness, based on the honest change of our heart and intentions.

But if you do not remain in Christ Jesus, inevitably you will not obey Him, for that is the nature of the anti-god, whereas the nature of the life bearing Spirit is that you will (not might) obey yet even beyond yourself, the life He is investing in you... for God is alive and active as is His Word in our lives to fight Satan and prosper in hope and a future. If God is for us who can be against us right?

So, another question would be, "Why am I not in love with my Obedience for God's sake, despite its notable costs, what is left in me that has not been crucified in Christ where I no longer live, yet I would live, if I but let Him live in me?" let's nurture our relationship with God thru Christ Jesus, and offer ourselves as living sacrifices holy and pleasing to God, and not look for a clause to favor Him not, or to get in, by the skin of our teeth, (calling that humility) and keep some of our sins, while keeping God as a figure-head for our righteous pompous piety. Let us not be fools to think we do not reap what we sow, and we can yet cash in our chip for the cool Heaven gig. Let God work wonderful mysterious wonders in our lives, with many different chapters of testimonies of how He worked us thru it all, toward Himself and toward our own health in emotions and wholeness, as He equipped us to obedience of His will, that which we were made to be, naturally so, by God Himself thru Jesus Christ whom He sent.. It is our natural Joyous order to obey; despite its earthen grind when we love Him, so stay in love with Him is the order of business at hand. Let God show us that His vision is Eternally logical, and worth our rest, and cost in Him.

 

[sondra333]

[h=2]Re: Can a christian lose their salvation[/h]

Originally Posted by sondra333

Why do we focus so much on this subject? Is it fear for i could understand that once you have come to know the Lord and our Heavenly Father i fear losing them as well....and yet the Lord said i will never leave you or forsake you, and also that the Comforter (Holy Spirit) will forever abide in you. So to me those listed above that Paul had written warnings about in regards to falling away or following grievous wolves, think and consider this that THEY WALKED AWAY from Christ not the other way around, and those they give up and decide to be a part of the world once again....THEY WALKED AWAY. So we in my humble opinion should never judge or use words as you will lose your salvation for He will never leave or forsake us and the Holy Spirit will forever abide in us...lest we for those without much faith or knowledge send them WALKING AWAY from Christ..so instead of stating your going to lose your salvation...perhaps it be better that we ask them why are you walking away?



Who is judging...... God's words were shared that is all.

Do you mean this Holy Spirit ( God )?

1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.....................

1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Now lets read carefully.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The same Holy Spirit that gives the gift of faith through which grace comes said this....listen carefully God's word.

The same Holy Spirit Speaking Expressly in this verse:


1 Timothy 4:1 KJV Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shalldepart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

According to God ( The Holy Spirit ) speaking expressly, the same Holy Spirit ( God ) who gives gift of faith says that some will depart from that faith.

You are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH. God's words not mine. No judging just sharing God's words on the matter.​

Hello brother,
I hope that i didn't offend you i was actually speaking from personal experience not sure if there was judgement on this matter here on this thread...so i wasn't really referring to you or anybody in particular and yet everyone who has said you will lose your salvation instead of why are you walking away from our Lord? Father knows the hearts of men and i do not, for instance while typing this it was given to me that i could see however after asking why are you walking away from your Lord and Saviour that depending on the love one could say out of terror, or extreme sadness, or both and other feelings as well....YOU WILL LOSE YOUR SALVATION PLEASE DEAR GOD LET THEM HEAR ME....and like i said the Father knows the hearts

 

[JohnOne]

Re: Can a christian lose their salvation

Originally Posted by sondra333

Why do we focus so much on this subject? Is it fear for i could understand that once you have come to know the Lord and our Heavenly Father i fear losing them as well....and yet the Lord said i will never leave you or forsake you, and also that the Comforter (Holy Spirit) will forever abide in you. So to me those listed above that Paul had written warnings about in regards to falling away or following grievous wolves, think and consider this that THEY WALKED AWAY from Christ not the other way around, and those they give up and decide to be a part of the world once again....THEY WALKED AWAY. So we in my humble opinion should never judge or use words as you will lose your salvation for He will never leave or forsake us and the Holy Spirit will forever abide in us...lest we for those without much faith or knowledge send them WALKING AWAY from Christ..so instead of stating your going to lose your salvation...perhaps it be better that we ask them why are you walking away?



Who is judging...... God's words were shared that is all.

Do you mean this Holy Spirit ( God )?

1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.....................

1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Now lets read carefully.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

The same Holy Spirit that gives the gift of faith through which grace comes said this....listen carefully God's word.

The same Holy Spirit Speaking Expressly in this verse:


1 Timothy 4:1 KJV Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shalldepart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

According to God ( The Holy Spirit ) speaking expressly, the same Holy Spirit ( God ) who gives gift of faith says that some will depart from that faith.

You are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH. God's words not mine. No judging just sharing God's words on the matter.​

Hello brother,
I hope that i didn't offend you i was actually speaking from personal experience not sure if there was judgement on this matter here on this thread...so i wasn't really referring to you or anybody in particular and yet everyone who has said you will lose your salvation instead of why are you walking away from our Lord? Father knows the hearts of men and i do not, for instance while typing this it was given to me that i could see however after asking why are you walking away from your Lord and Saviour that depending on the love one could say out of terror, or extreme sadness, or both and other feelings as well....YOU WILL LOSE YOUR SALVATION PLEASE DEAR GOD LET THEM HEAR ME....and like i said the Father knows the hearts

Amen sister and that is a great question and the Holy Spirit provides the answer. They depart from that faith giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils. It is pleasing to the ears to hear that you will never lose your salvation. Fortunately from the beginning we have the truth on the matter from God.

Thats the reason I don't need to ask why people are departing from the faith. The Holy Spirit told us why and how they would. We just share with others in hopes they hear God's word and heed. Just sharing truth.

 

[JohnOne]

When confronted with direct plain truth straight from God through His word people do strange things and come up with some strange off the wall answers.

No where does it indicate that the faith which they cast off is saving faith.

Context is everything.

1Ti 5:6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth. ( clearly spiritual death )


1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

1 Timothy 5:11-12 KJV But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; 12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith

Few verses later same chapter

1 Timothy 5:14-15 KJV I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. 15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.

To turn aside after Satan is to have turned aside from something that was not of Satan. The context is crystal clear.



The answer we got was the faith they cast off is not the salvation faith. Yet God's words makes it clear the faith they cast off resulted in having damnation. Again they equate damnation to salvation.

These are the answers people give when they have no where else to go and nothing to back up their claims. Once confronted with God's words they are left with only these absurd interpretations and responses.

The faith here is the teaching that widows act in certain expected ways.

Nothing says they ceased to believe in God or Christ only they chaffed against restrictions on their conduct.

See the above verses in the post.

Again another absurd answer.

Their condemnation was not loss of eternal life.......

To turn aside after satan and to cast off the faith that equates to having damnation can only be the saving faith spoken of that your in denial over and changing God's word to suit your doctrines. Thus the absurd responses.

 

[JohnOne]

I understand your interpretation of James and every one is entitled to their thoughts on a scripture and it may actually be a combination of our thoughts together too.

2Pe_1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

[fredoheaven]

Ephesians 1:13 KJV In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

So Paul, who wrote of the seal of the Holy Spirit in Eph. chapters 1 and 4, shows by these other scriptures what the seal meant to him.

Ephesians 5:5-7 KJV For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

Paul wanted Christians, who were sealed with the Holy Spirit, to know that No immoral, impure or greedy person - such a man is an idolater - has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. In other words, he wanted them to know that the seal would not prevent those sins from nullifying their inheritance of the kingdom.

In the same breath that Paul wrote of the seal of the Holy Spirit he also warned Christians that sin could cause loss of salvation and being sealed with the Holy Spirit wouldn’t prevent this!

A little study form above mentioned verses:

“For this ye know…” [ ye refers the Ephesian believers who according to the context were called children of God and as saints. They are those who heard the word of truth and believe Christ and the Gospel, who are sealed with the holy Spirit of promise. Eph. 1:13 ]

“…that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God…” [ Unsaved folks being deceived by the deceiver and having displayed these characters will absolutely not going inherit the kingdom of Christ and of God ]

“Let no man deceive you with vain words…” [ The deceivers with his vain words will come to deceive but Ephesians believers were warned not to be partakers with the deceivers as well as the deceived because any spiritual fellowship with them comes the wrath of God. Instead we need to reprove them. Basically, this is about fellowship that we lose not to lose our salvation. ]
Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

“…children of disobedience..” [ Who are then the children of disobedience? The children of disobedience refers to the deceivers and the deceived as well and not the Ephesian believers.
Now for the “seal of the Holy Spirit” signifies that you are already bought by God or owned by Him. The seal stands also for security and nothing can buy you out of this seal, Satan can no longer claimed you or harm you. You will surely be protected by Christ and Father’s hand for no one can pluck it out of Christ’s hand or out of his Father’s hand.
What is sure is that the “sealing” is about preserving salvation and not losing salvation.]

 

[fredoheaven]

Let's ask the right questions: "Where does my Salvation come from?" Jesus Christ on and after the Cross via God - right? And God's Word says if I have the Son I have life - right? And (John 3:36) tells us that exact same message followed directly with ... "Whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

So it's simple. If we remain in Jesus we are guaranteed Salvation.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]JOHN3:36 He that [/FONT]believeth[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that [/FONT]believeth[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For one thing "believing" and not "obeying" is having the everlasting life and those who do not believe does not have the Son or life but the wrath of God dwells in him.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
So it's simple. If we believe in Jesus we are guaranteed Salvation. One thing more it is already the Holy Spirit that dwelleth in us when we believe that "good thing in Christ" meaning the Gospel.

2 Timothy1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost whichdwelleth in us

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

I understand your interpretation of James and every one is entitled to their thoughts on a scripture and it may actually be a combination of our thoughts together too.

2Pe_1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Amen....I like that scripture altho 2 Peter 1:20 is talking about "prophecy"...the book of James is not prophecy...

There is only one full interpretation of what is written in epistles and that is the one from the Holy Spirit who inspired the scripture.

We are not the Holy Spirit and we only now in part and even then we see through a glass darkly. We are all at different levels of understanding in our Christian life with the Lord.

We are just as dependent on the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus in the scriptures as Mary was dependent on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

 

[Grace777x70]

JOHN3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he thatbelieveth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

For one thing "believing" and not "obeying" is having the everlasting life and those who do not believe does not have the Son or life but the wrath of God dwells in him.

So it's simple. If we believe in Jesus we are guaranteed Salvation. One thing more it is already the Holy Spirit that dwelleth in us when we believe that "good thing in Christ" meaning the Gospel.

2 Timothy1:14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost whichdwelleth in us

John 3:36 - I looked up the Greek word for "believeth not" in KJV and "do not obey" is the NASB and it means to "not believe" or "dis-believe" in Christ which is in direct disobedience concerning Jesus' finished work for our salvation. Being obedient to the faith is believing in Christ only for salvation.

Here is the exact same Greek word as used in John 3:36 in Acts in the NASB and the KJV

Acts 14:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] But the Jews who disbelieved stirred up the minds of the Gentiles and embittered them against the brethren.

Acts 14:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their minds evil affected against the brethren.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, Paul said even he can be disqualified for the prize (heaven) if he doesn't run in such a way to win the race.

Is eternal life/salvation a free gift (Romans 6:23) that we receive by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8) or a prize that we run for and earn in an Olympic race? Paul said disqualified for the prize, not disqualified for the gift of eternal life.

In context, Paul has been discussing preaching the gospel. In verse 18 he says, "What is my reward, then?" In verses 24-27 he illustrates this thought of his reward by the picture of a race run for the prize. We must pay attention to the context—this passage concerns reward, prize not losing salvation.

Verse 24 settles the matter for me. 1 Corinthians 9:24 - Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. In the Olympics, all runners run but only one receives the gold medal. So what happens to the runners that receive the silver medal or bronze medal or finish the race with no medal? Are they disqualified from the Olympics or from receiving the gold medal?

 

[mailmandan]

John 3:36 - I looked up the Greek word for "believeth not" in KJV and "do not obey" is the NASB and it means to "not believe" or "dis-believe" in Christ which is in direct disobedience concerning Jesus' finished work for our salvation. Being obedient to the faith is believing in Christ only for salvation.

Here is the exact same Greek word as used in John 3:36 in Acts in the NASB and the KJV

Acts 14:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] But the Jews who disbelieved stirred up the minds of the Gentiles and embittered them against the brethren.

Acts 14:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their minds evil affected against the brethren.

Yes, in John 3:36, "obey the Son" does not mean do extra works for Him, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To believe in the Son is to obey Him and to refuse to believe in the Son is to not obey Him.

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him (John 3:36, NASB). The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son (NKJV - does not believe the Son) shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is "apeitheo" and it means: not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of John 3:36, to not obey the Son means to reject His message. The NIV says ..whoever rejects the Son (by refusing to believe in the Son) will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

 

[John146]

1 Corinthians 9:27, "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

The context is being the right kind of witness to preach the Gospel. Not bringing your body under subjection, living worldly, may disqualify one from preaching the Gospel. It ruins their credibility.

 

[notuptome]

When confronted with direct plain truth straight from God through His word people do strange things and come up with some strange off the wall answers.



Context is everything.

1Ti 5:6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth. ( clearly spiritual death )


1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

1 Timothy 5:11-12 KJV But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; 12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith

Few verses later same chapter

1 Timothy 5:14-15 KJV I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. 15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.

To turn aside after Satan is to have turned aside from something that was not of Satan. The context is crystal clear.



The answer we got was the faith they cast off is not the salvation faith. Yet God's words makes it clear the faith they cast off resulted in having damnation. Again they equate damnation to salvation.

These are the answers people give when they have no where else to go and nothing to back up their claims. Once confronted with God's words they are left with only these absurd interpretations and responses.








See the above verses in the post.

Again another absurd answer.



To turn aside after satan and to cast off the faith that equates to having damnation can only be the saving faith spoken of that your in denial over and changing God's word to suit your doctrines. Thus the absurd responses.

You are like a cat that sat on a hot stove. You've overlearned your lesson. The cat never sat down again. You have taken the word faith and made it something that it's not. You have taken the word condemnation and made it more than it is in this context.

You stretch the English translations to make a doctrine that doesn't exist. If it were as you imply then Paul was totally wrong in 1Cor 5:1 ¶ It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

Paul is teaching that the flesh is destroyed by Gods chastisement but the soul is or remains saved. To follow your line of teaching then anytime a believer sins they lose their salvation and are doomed to eternal condemnation. Even the tiniest fault or flaw would negate the sacrifice of Christ and result in a loss of eternal life.

Why does sound doctrine seem so strange in your ears? From the perspective of Christ any deviation from the word of God and the truth is to turn aside after satan. Even the smallest little slip is the same as going after wonton sin. Only by grace can a soul remain saved and preserved unto the day of redemption. Sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

I'm eternally grateful that God is not capricious and changeable as many make Him to be.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Gr8grace]

When confronted with direct plain truth straight from God through His word people do strange things and come up with some strange off the wall answers.



Context is everything.

1Ti 5:6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth. ( clearly spiritual death )


1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

1 Timothy 5:11-12 KJV But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry; 12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith

Few verses later same chapter

1 Timothy 5:14-15 KJV I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully. 15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.

To turn aside after Satan is to have turned aside from something that was not of Satan. The context is crystal clear.



The answer we got was the faith they cast off is not the salvation faith. Yet God's words makes it clear the faith they cast off resulted in having damnation. Again they equate damnation to salvation.

These are the answers people give when they have no where else to go and nothing to back up their claims. Once confronted with God's words they are left with only these absurd interpretations and responses.








See the above verses in the post.

Again another absurd answer.



To turn aside after satan and to cast off the faith that equates to having damnation can only be the saving faith spoken of that your in denial over and changing God's word to suit your doctrines. Thus the absurd responses.

Wow, just plain ole wow.

loss of salvation~~From pleasure.

Loss of salvation~~a widow remarrying.

Loss of salvation~~Not providing for our own.

Loss of salvation~~speaking reproachfully.

Loss of salvation~~turning aside to satan.

Just your interpretation of these scriptures is "turning aside to satan." This is pretty close to the worst tearing apart of scripture that I have seen on this site thus far.

Roger has some pretty good advice for ya.