First you say wailing will take place on Judgment Day for the mere fact that it will be Judgment Day, now you're saying wailing will take place because they are going to be cast into a furnace of fire. Which is it?
Hell. It is in the Bible isnt it?
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First you say wailing will take place on Judgment Day for the mere fact that it will be Judgment Day, now you're saying wailing will take place because they are going to be cast into a furnace of fire. Which is it?
I changed what you wrote to see things from another perspective [emphasis added].
The same here [emphasis added]
As above [emphasis added]
A level playing field? [emphasis added]
Slightly ostentatious perhaps?
Many do, it is called the Holy Bible.
It appears many have an interpretation [emphasis added]
You'll never be able to help some people see that what they insist upon being divine revelation may be no more than simply THEIR esoteric interpretation. They honestly do believe they are the chosen one to whom God has revealed the "truth" while keeping it hidden from anyone else.
Ya know... You just might turn out to be quite a Christian one of these days.
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Really, Utah, is it such a stretch to accept that they will receive their punishment immediately after being judged on judgement day? You make it sound like there is some kind of contradiction when in reality it makes perfect sense that the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth happens on judgement day at the prospect of their imminent and inescapable fate in the lake of fire. Do you think God is going to have a backlog of cases to try? That maybe it will take a couple of years between being charged, and being tried and found guilty? Maybe a few hundred, or a few thousand years? Ten thousand years? Wow, that would be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth. It certainly won't be the dead who are wailing and gnashing their teeth, nor those who have already passed out of existence. It will be those realizing that they refused the opportunity of an eternal lifetime. Literally.
It is a marvel that Satan has succeeded so well in making men believe that the words of God, "The soul that sinneth it shall die," mean that the soul that sinneth it shall not die, but live eternally in misery. Life is life, whether it is in pain or happiness. Death is without pain, without joy, without hatred.
Satan and his angels have made a special effort to spread the deception and lie first repeated to Eve in Eden. "Thou shalt not surely die." And as this error has been received by the people, and they have been led to believe that man was immortal, he has led them on to believe that the sinner would live in eternal misery.
It Leads Men to Hate God
This has prepared the way for Satan to work through his representatives, and hold up God before the people as a revengeful tyrant, -- one who plunges all those into hell who do not please Him, and causes them ever to feel His wrath; and while they suffer unutterable anguish, and writhe in the eternal flames, He is represented as looking down upon them with satisfaction. Satan knew that if this error should be received, God would be hated by many, instead of being loved and admired; and that many would be led to believe that the threatenings of God's word would not be literally fulfilled, for it would be against His character of benevolence and love to plunge into eternal torments the beings whom He had created.
It Leads to Universalism
Another extreme which Satan has led the people to adopt is to entirely overlook the justice of God, and the threatenings in His word, and to represent Him as being all mercy, so that not one will perish, but that all, both saint and sinner, will at last be saved in His kingdom.
It Leads to Infidelity
In consequence of the popular errors of the immortality of the soul, and endless misery, Satan takes advantage of another class, and leads them to regard the Bible as an uninspired book. They think it teaches many good things; but they cannot rely upon it and love it, because they have been taught that it declares the doctrine of eternal misery.
It Leads to Atheism
Another class Satan leads on still further, even to deny the existence of God. They can see no consistency in the character of the God of the Bible, if He will torment with horrible tortures a portion of the human family to all eternity. Therefore they deny the Bible and its Author, and regard death as an eternal sleep.
It Leads to Insanity
There is still another class who are fearful and timid. These Satan tempts to commit sin, and after they have sinned, he holds up before them that the wages of sin is -- not death, but -- life in horrible torments, to be endured through the endless ages of eternity. By thus magnifying before their feeble minds the horrors of an endless hell, he takes possession of their minds, and they lose their reason. Then Satan and his angels exult, and the infidel and atheist join in casting reproach upon Christianity. They claim that these evils are the natural results of believing in the Bible and its Author, whereas they are the results of the reception of popular heresy.
God's Object in Giving the Bible
God knew that Satan would try every art to destroy man; therefore He caused His word to be written out, and made His purposes in regard to the human race so plain that the weakest need not err. After having given His word to man, He has carefully preserved it from destruction by Satan or his angels, or by any of his agents or representatives. While other books might be destroyed, this was to be immortal. And down near the close of time, when the delusions of Satan should increase, it was to be so multiplied that all who desired might have a copy, and, if they would, might arm themselves against the deceptions and lying wonders of Satan.
God has especially guarded the Bible, yet when copies of it were few, learned men have in some instances changed the words, thinking that they were making it more plain, when in reality they were mystifying that which was plain, by causing it to lean to their established views which were governed by tradition. But the word of God, as a whole, is a perfect chain, one portion linking into and explaining another. True seekers for truth need not err; for not only is the word of God plain and simple in declaring the way to life, but the Holy Spirit is given as a guide in understanding the way to life therein revealed. - See more at: Do we live forever? | Hell Truth
An interesting observation or two:
Some will repeatedly insist that there is no need to change the literal meaning of words if they make sense as written. Do not spiritualize the text, they will say. But then they are faced with the multitude of passages, beginning in Genesis, saying that the soul that sinneth shall die. This is clearly stated many many times, in a number of different ways, right through the Good Book. (I have supplied some of those passages here: link~>#627)
Yet, suddenly their first principle of Biblical exegesis is thrown out the window when they read this multitude of passages that clearly state the fate of unbelieving souls! Where did their conviction go? They reject that the soul that sinneth shall die! Why?
I have been directed to look at the word "destroy" in the original language, being told it does not mean to utterly destroy and I have discovered that it means to utterly destroy!
ἀπόλλυμι apóllymi, ap-ol'-loo-mee; from G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:—destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
And G2532 fear G5399G575 not G3361 them which G3588 kill G615the body, G4983 but G1161 are G1410G0 not G3361 able G1410 to kill G615 the soul: G5590 but G1161 rather G3123 fear G5399 him which G3588 is able G1410 to destroy G622 both G2532 soul G5590and G2532 body G4983 in G1722 hell. G1067
Matthew 10:28 The KJV translates Strongs G622 in the following manner: perish (33x), destroy (26x), lose (22x), be lost (5x), lost (4x), misc (2x).
Another has said they prefer to accept the text at face value and take a literal straightforward reading, yet they have somehow concluded that the soul of man is immortal and have blindly assumed this since who knows when, when the fact of the matter is that this belief is not in any way supported by any literal or straightforward reading of Scripture! Nor is the idea of eternal separation in torment and misery to be found in any straightforward literal reading of Scripture.
A straightforward literal reading of Scripture leaves one with the distinct impression that the soul that sins shall die. Why? Because that is what the text says, again, and again, and again! Jesus has paid the price for our sins. There is no condemnation for those found in Him. Their names are written in the Lamb's book of life. There is only one unforgivable sin now, and that is to deny the work of God.
Some will repeatedly insist that there is no need to change the literal meaning of words if they make sense as written. Do not spiritualize the text, they will say. But then they are faced with the multitude of passages, beginning in Genesis, saying that the soul that sinneth shall die. This is clearly stated many many times, in a number of different ways, right through the Good Book. (I have supplied some of those passages here: link~>#627)
Yet, suddenly their first principle of Biblical exegesis is thrown out the window when they read this multitude of passages that clearly state the fate of unbelieving souls! Where did their conviction go? They reject that the soul that sinneth shall die! Why?
I have been directed to look at the word "destroy" in the original language, being told it does not mean to utterly destroy and I have discovered that it means to utterly destroy!
ἀπόλλυμι apóllymi, ap-ol'-loo-mee; from G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:—destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
And G2532 fear G5399G575 not G3361 them which G3588 kill G615the body, G4983 but G1161 are G1410G0 not G3361 able G1410 to kill G615 the soul: G5590 but G1161 rather G3123 fear G5399 him which G3588 is able G1410 to destroy G622 both G2532 soul G5590and G2532 body G4983 in G1722 hell. G1067
Matthew 10:28 The KJV translates Strongs G622 in the following manner: perish (33x), destroy (26x), lose (22x), be lost (5x), lost (4x), misc (2x).
Another has said they prefer to accept the text at face value and take a literal straightforward reading, yet they have somehow concluded that the soul of man is immortal and have blindly assumed this since who knows when, when the fact of the matter is that this belief is not in any way supported by any literal or straightforward reading of Scripture! Nor is the idea of eternal separation in torment and misery to be found in any straightforward literal reading of Scripture.
A straightforward literal reading of Scripture leaves one with the distinct impression that the soul that sins shall die. Why? Because that is what the text says, again, and again, and again! Jesus has paid the price for our sins. There is no condemnation for those found in Him. Their names are written in the Lamb's book of life. There is only one unforgivable sin now, and that is to deny the work of God.
Originally Posted by Ahwatukee
It is always uplifting to me when I see that a Spirit has revealed the same interpretations to others.
I changed what you wrote to see things from another perspective [emphasis added].
You should not have changed "the Spirit" to "a Spirit." What are you a JW? The Spirit that I was speaking of is the One who reveals God's word to us, which is the Hoy Spirit, which is who I was referring to.
Yes, unfortunately there are many false teachers in the world and the word of God is not being rightfully discerned.
Do me a favor, do not change what I have written, because what you changed them to, specifically my reference to the Holy Spirit, is not what I meant. When I said "The Spirit" with an upper case "S" it refers to the Holy Spirit, not "a spirit."
G
Gr8grace
Guest
But it does not mean cease to exist.
millions and millions of people have already died. Has any of them ceased to exist?
Don't get snippy with me, Sunshine. I've always shown you great respect so to take your pompous attitude elsewhere. You believe what you will, and I'll believe what I will. Bottom line, Jesus is Lord and what He says goes. One day all questions will be answered to His glory.
I am perplexed at your inability to understand we are discussing the fate of those not found in Christ following judgement day.
"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."
This is the Spirit (not a spirit), that I was speaking of and how I know these end-time events that I have been sharing here.
This is why I know what I know regarding Revelation and end-time events, the things yet to come, which the Spirit has revealed to me through the diligent study of God's word. The sad part is that because of the influence of false teachings and lack of personal study, many do not recognize the truth when it is presented to them.
As an example, when there were false teachers in Thessalonica teaching that the resurrection had already taken place, the Thessalonians wrote to Paul regarding this issue because they were concerned. For they were familiar with Paul's teachings from the Lord, that immediately following the resurrection of the dead the living believers would be changed into those immortal and glorified bodies and caught up in the clouds with those who will have just resurrected to meet the Lord in the air. And since there were those who were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place, their concern to Paul was, "Hey Paul, if the resurrection has already taken place, how come we haven't been caught up?! And Paul comforts and reassures them, which is what Paul was responding to in his letter to them to in 2 Thes.2:1-12.
In comparison, if today someone says the resurrection has already taken place, hardly anyone blinks and eye and that because they don't understand the teachings that the Thessalonians understood, that once the dead in Christ are resurrected, the living in Christ follow immediately afterward. In stark contrast to this, we have people today claiming that there is no such event where the living are going to be changed and caught up, even though it is stated right in scripture and in detail. And this is the way it is with many other Biblical truths and that because people are adopting false teachings and getting their information as the word of God from you tube, web-sites, books and seminars, instead of from the word of God.
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G
Gr8grace
Guest
Come now. When is judgement day? Yet future.
Millions and millions of unbelievers have died. Have they ceased to exist?
Exactly. It is a future event. You seem to be having great difficulty accepting God's Word at face value. At that great day of reckoning, when unbelievers pass into the second death, having their names blotted out of the Lamb's book of life, and being consigned to the lake of fire to be utterly destroyed, both body and soul, as God's Word clearly states, do you think it will be similar to dying physically and being buried in the ground to await the resurrection of all on the day of judgement?
G
Gr8grace
Guest
Please don't skirt around the question. You are saying that death/perish/destroy means cease to exist.
The GWTJ is yet future and many unbelievers have died,perished, been destroyed.........have they ceased to exist?
I am not skirting the issue at all, and your pretending I am is dishonest of you. We are discussing the fate of those at the second death where their body and soul is destroyed. If you want to equate the first death with the second death, that is your problem, not mine. Why you want to pretend they are the same thing is beyond me.
Yes but I was just showing another prespective, as that is what I said. Let me (if I may?) just explain that because YOU claim to have the Spirit of the God of the Holy Bible is not necessarily proof that YOU have divine disclosure on all matters concerning Scripture. You and many other Christians have interpretations of those Scriptures but this does not necessarily make it the absolute truth and meaning. That is all I was pointing out.
I can agree and this is in and of itself a very challenging task at hand, for it has been made known that Satan masquerades as an angel of light, I have to be cautious.
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
G
Gr8grace
Guest
Have unbelievers that have died/perished/been destroyed ceased to exist?
It is a simple yes or no question.
If they are going to be judged and dumped into the LOF at the WTJ, Then they are still being punished in Hades until then. Is this how it works?
The God of the Holy Bible Commanded the man (Adam) Genesis 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” We know that death ends life, I personally do not believe that the God of the Holy Bible would make a false statement with a deliberate intent to deceive.
I have had others misrepresent and even create texts and put it in my quote box, also ckaiming to just make a point, but this is deception, and can cause others to believe a lie when they read those posts in the future.
In my opinion, this should be a serious violation.
I know first-hand the trouble that comes because others have misrepresented my words/intentions, and I'd hate to see Ahwatukee be misunderstood because someone else manipulated his posts/text.
I don't think the person should be banned, as I don't believe there was malicious intent, as I believe was done to me, but there should be a warning, and Ahwatukee was correct in pointing it out and asking it not be done again. These topics are difficult enough to try to discuss clearly without ppl manipulating someone elses quotes. Highlighting or condensing may be one thing, but changing words, or adding or deleting, while leaving it in the quote-box is deceptive practice. Just my opinion.
In my opinion, this should be a serious violation.
I know first-hand the trouble that comes because others have misrepresented my words/intentions, and I'd hate to see Ahwatukee be misunderstood because someone else manipulated his posts/text.
I don't think the person should be banned, as I don't believe there was malicious intent, as I believe was done to me, but there should be a warning, and Ahwatukee was correct in pointing it out and asking it not be done again. These topics are difficult enough to try to discuss clearly without ppl manipulating someone elses quotes. Highlighting or condensing may be one thing, but changing words, or adding or deleting, while leaving it in the quote-box is deceptive practice. Just my opinion.