Is the Devil bound right now...?

[JohnOne]

Not only is Bowman wrong and proven wrong by God's word but also by the beliefs of early followers outside God's word.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1] Justin Martyr, who is praised and quoted by many as a fine example of early Christian Orthodoxy. Justin Martyr was converted about the year 130 A.D. and was beheaded in 165 A.D. Here is a quote from his Dialogue with Trypho:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this [truth], and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians, even as one, if he would rightly consider it, would not admit that the Sadducees, or similar sects of Genistae, Meristae, Galilaeans, Hellenists, Pharisees, Baptists, are Jews (do not hear me impatiently when I tell you what I think), but are [only] called Jews and children of Abraham, worshipping God with the lips, as God Himself declared, but the heart was far from Him. But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, [as] the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare."

[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]And again he writes:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]"And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place."[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica][SIZE=-1]THIS IS the eschatology of primitive Christianity, and those who deny this are lying. [/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[Bowman]

Rev 20:1-3
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. [SUP]2 [/SUP]He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; [SUP]3 [/SUP]and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

The answer, as stated in the bible is 'a little while'. How long that period of time is depends on how God determines 'a little while'.

Amazing...

So. according to you...Satan is bound for an EXACT amount of time.....down to the year, month, day, minute, second....but, he is unbound for an unknown, and indeterminate amount of time...

See the hypocrisy going on here...?

 

[Bowman]

John is told to write the things hast seen , the things which are and the things which shall be hereafter. Starting in Revelation 4:1 clearly shows that the things which shall be hearafter are going to be shown so John can write them down.

Thus showing an order you just denied. Your wrong again Bowman.

The events recorded in Revelation repeat themselves with various epithets...like a musical symphony...

 

[Bowman]

Who is the dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns, Rev 12:3?

He was waiting to devour the man child v.4-5, and sent a flood after the woman v 15-16.

And he was released in 1929....?

Show us the scripture that says this date.

At least you admit that Satan has been bound.....you are ahead of most the others on this thread...

 

[Ahwatukee]

LOL Spoken like a real man.

Most of the reformers who chose the amil position and had real guests. Where they a bunch of real little girls or men reforming dark Catholicism according to sola scriptura?

My point being, no literal return of Jesus, no literal thousand years, no literal fulfillment of the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgment, etc. Everything is spiritualized with them.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello Garee,

The first time the actual term ‘‘a thousand’’ is used in a figurative sense in Scripture is found in Deuteronomy 1:10-11where Moses is seen speaking to the children of Israel, saying, ““The Lord your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude. (The Lord God of your fathers make you A THOUSAND times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!).”

Your error is what you and amil's don't understand is that, there is no need to go looking to see where a thousand is used elsewhere in scripture! The context right in Rev.20:1-7 stands alone and the meaning can be understood by reading the context. The event lists the words "a thousand years" six times, which should be a red flag that God's word means what it says. For the life of me, I cannot understand why you people read the verse and then go searching all through the word of God to figure out what the meaning of "a thousand years" is referring to?!

In addition to that, God has done nothing but use exact numbers in Revelation, seven churches, seven seals, seven trumpets, seven bowls, 144,000, white robed saints to great to count, a third of the sun, a third of the moon, a third of the stars, 200 million mounted troops, etc., etc., etc.......

God: The sky is blue thus saith the Lord.

Amils: What do you think he means by the color blue? I don't know. Let's go search the scriptures and find out! I found it! It's not a color at all, but represents the historical event of the French Revolution.

Guy's, how about a literal angel comes down out of heaven and seizes Satan and throws him into the Abyss and locks and seals if over him for a thousand years, which is during the same time that Jesus rules on this earth? There is nothing in Rev.20:1-7 that would trigger the need to interpret the scripture as anything but in the literal sense.

 

[garee]

So....

Your reply is that only God has the power to cast-down Satan.

No the point I was trying to make was Christians because they have God they can cast him down every time he tries to deceive us in the imaginations of our heart ..That will occur all the way up until the last day. It is like I suggested .What is he bound from, seeing you cannot literally bind a lying spirit that has no dna ..

He is still the god of this world and will be until both him and this present corrupted creation shown by its aging, decaying process leading towards death at the end of time, the last day, the last trump signified by the word thousand which began over two thousand literal years ago.

If it began a literal thousand year ago. Where is the fleshly Jesus in whom men say he is still clothed with? Should we not be able to see him reigning since a literal thousand years has passed?

We must also conclude that Satan is spiritually bound (or curtailed) now through the victory of the Lord Jesus Christ at the cross, and that Christ now reigns victoriously in the world in the hearts of His blood bought people –– ‘‘the Church.’’

 

[Ahwatukee]

It is like I suggested .What is he bound from, seeing you cannot literally bind a lying spirit that has no dna ..

Garee, there are currently many spirits bound in the Abyss! When the Abyss is opened by that angel at the 5th trumpet, all of those demonic beings come out to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months. Their king is angel of the Abyss, who is that beast that comes out and kills the two witnesses. Have you considered that God may have some type of spiritual boundary (force-field) under the earth that fallen angels cannot cross? Whatever it is, there is currently something that keeps them from escaping from their prison.

We must also conclude that Satan is spiritually bound (or curtailed) now through the victory of the Lord Jesus Christ at the cross, and that Christ now reigns victoriously in the world in the hearts of His blood bought people –– ‘‘the Church.’’

Jesus did indeed strike a blow against the powers of darkness by meeting the righteous requirements of the law, satisfying it and by paying the penalty for sin. But, the binding recorded in Rev.20:1-3, is not referring to when Christ was crucified, but is an event that, according to the chronological order of events, will take place just after the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, with the beast and the false prophet being thrown alive into the lake of fire and then Satan being thrown into the Literal Abyss for a literal thousand years. Here is what John has to say regarding Satan's current status:

"We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one."

Satan still has the same power over the world that he did before Christ came and he is going to have even more once the church has been removed. The benefit is for those who are have received Christ as Lord and savior through faith. Unbelievers are just as vulnerable as they have always been. Furthermore, during the great tribulation, Satan, through the beast, is going to have authority over every tribe, people, nation and language.

 

[garee]

Your error is what you and amil's don't understand is that, there is no need to go looking to see where a thousand is used elsewhere in scripture! The context right in Rev.20:1-7 stands alone and the meaning can be understood by reading the context. The event lists the words "a thousand years" six times, which should be a red flag that God's word means what it says. For the life of me, I cannot understand why you people read the verse and then go searching all through the word of God to figure out what the meaning of "a thousand years" is referring to?!

No need to search out the word thousand in other places? What is the purpose of parables?

The context is the whole Bible. If we take away the spiritual meaning from one passage by making it literal we take it away from the whole.

The term “thousand years” is implied ten times throughout the scripture and is used the same way every time, to represent an unknown amount of time.

I would think the idea of searching the whole scriptures, by comparing the spiritual things (not seen ) found in parables to the spiritual is what God requires of us.. Not the literal understanding, to the literal.(the things of men)

The later would be in respect to the wisdom that man teaches . There is no spiritual meaning when a person tries to make it a literal understanding as do literalist .

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; “comparing spiritual things with spiritual.”But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Co 2:14

In the book of Revelation.The word ‘‘revelation’’ in verse 1 of chapter 1 means ‘‘unveiling.’’ This verse of the Revelation also informs us that this unveiling was “signified” to John. This word “signified “ means that the message, or unveiling, was given in symbols, or figures. So, there is something amiss when a symbol which was given to unveil God’s plan becomes a hiding of insignificance”” That is the opposite way a parable is designed. The word signified is used 6 times in the same way

Revelation 20 sits in the most symbolic book of the Bible; a book that is saturated in numerology and the most figurative language in Scripture. We must therefore examine the chapter in such a manner and interpret it in such a figurative context less error would arise in its overall interpretation.

Like all parables we must search for the spiritual meaning hid from the unbeliever. Remember without parables Christ, the anointing Holy Spirit of God spoke not to the whole world (the multitude) This is especially when looking as the Book of Revelation.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The term “thousand years” is implied ten times throughout the scripture and is used the same way every time, to represent an unknown amount of time.

The above is not necessary! The meaning of the thousand years can be obtained right in the context that it is written, i.e. a literal thousand years. Just because that number is used symbolically elsewhere, does not require that formula be applied here in Revelation. By doing so, you are distorting the meaning of the scripture. You're going to look for answer elsewhere that is right in front of you. Not everything requires a spiritual interpretation!

In the book of Revelation.The word ‘‘revelation’’ in verse 1 of chapter 1 means ‘‘unveiling.’’ This verse of the Revelation also informs us that this unveiling was “signified” to John. This word “signified “ means that the message, or unveiling, was given in symbols, or figures. So, there is something amiss when a symbol which was given to unveil God’s plan becomes a hiding of insignificance”” That is the opposite way a parable is designed. The word signified is used 6 times in the same way.

No, it doesn't! symbolism should only be applied when the literal sense doesn't make good sense. This is in fact the problem today is that, everyone approaches Revelation as only a symbolic book, which it is not. The Revelation that Jesus gave His angel to show John was "the things that must soon take place." Those things are the events of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. The book of Revelation is a detailed account of the day of the Lord leading up to Christ's return to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.

Symbolism:
"A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head."

Literal:
"And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

Symbolism:
"There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls."

Literal:
"The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, 9a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

The meaning to the symbolism in Revelation is revealed right in the book itself, with some information also contained in other books such as Daniel and Genesis.

 

[garee]

God: The sky is blue thus saith the Lord.

Amils: What do you think he means by the color blue? I don't know. Let's go search the scriptures and find out! I found it! It's not a color at all, but represents the historical event of the French Revolution.

LOL...And pink?

Thanks, for the brotherly love

Actually it represents those found without a righteousness’ of their own-self (the bride of Christ) in so much we are clothed with Christ. His clothing as to His righteousness is expressed by many color like the coat Joseph had.

Blue is used 49 times. In Ezekiel blue is used to reveal false prophets that the apostate Jewish harlot chased after. They turned the color blue into an idol. Many of the pagan nations used the things of God and turned them into the things of men..

And Aholah played the harlot when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians her neighbours,Which were clothed with blue, captains and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding upon horses.Thus she committed her whoredoms with them, with all them that were the chosen men of Assyria, and with all on whom she doted: with all their idols she defiled herself. Eze 23:5

Guy's, how about a literal angel comes down out of heaven and seizes Satan and throws him into the Abyss and locks and seals if over him for a thousand years, which is during the same time that Jesus rules on this earth? There is nothing in Rev.20:1-7 that would trigger the need to interpret the scripture as anything but in the literal sense.

The literal thousand years, literally ran out of time, over a thousand literal years ago.

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

I don’t think you can throw a lying spirit, the father of lies that has no dna, into a literal pit which a literal lock, and a literal seal.

The word angel simply means messenger the apostles as sent ones sent with the messages of God fit the meaning of the word . They are sent with his message and not that of their own selves. Neither are they sent by the angels that have no form..(the other creation.)

Angel as messengers do not have literal bodies unless they are believers(sisters and brothers in Christ) .

Its why we should be careful who we do entertain as strangers that we can see with our eyes , they could be sent from God with the gospel or he could send a brother to us to help them understand what is the gospel.

The other creation, as angels not seen that have no DNA they are not subject to the gospel they have no understanding of salvation.(no brotherly love)

Let brotherly love continue.Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

 

[garee]

Again its seems clear to me. In the book of Revelation.The word ‘‘revelation’’ in verse 1 of chapter 1 means ‘‘unveiling.’’ This verse of the Revelation also informs us that this unveiling was “signified” to John. Its the nature of the whole book.

“Signified” ...signs as that seen and wonders, the interpretation of that not seen.Marvel not.Signs and wonder ,two fold. Taking that seen an giving the spiritual understanding, not seen.Hiding in from natural man who does walk by sight.

Not literal water.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.oh 3:5

I think we can understand God who is not seen in regard to the spiritual as that which is hidden from those who understand by that seen, by rejecting the faith of God, in Christ. .

God has no form (DNA) as if he was a creature and not a Faithful Creator who a by a work of His faith creates creatures.

Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

Literal:
"And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

A literal angel as that seen, with a literal key, as that seen , cast into a literal Abyss ,as that seen, holding in a literal hand, a literal chain, as that seen in respect to a literal dragon, as that seen ? Its simply a parable .Without parables, Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God spoke not.

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

Literal:
"The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, 9a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

A literal trumpet, or as the literal voice of God? Is it something like a huge mountain? I think mountains literally represents kingdoms . Or is it a literal huge mountain of dirt ? What would be the purpose of putting dirt in the sea? Did the sea used to represent judgment, literally turn into literal blood .What would be the purpose of that?

The meaning to the symbolism in Revelation is revealed right in the book itself, with some information also contained in other books such as Daniel and Genesis.

The book of John informs us we are to drink the blood of Christ. What is the spiritual meaning of that parable.? Or do we literally drink the literal blood that was literally poured out into the literal ground, literally returning as a spiritless substance in the lifeless dust from it came it from, while the Spirit essence of life returned to the father.

What do you think it means to drink the blood?

 

[tourist]

Amazing...

So. according to you...Satan is bound for an EXACT amount of time.....down to the year, month, day, minute, second....but, he is unbound for an unknown, and indeterminate amount of time...

See the hypocrisy going on here...?

According to the bible. I didn't write the book.

 

[valiant]

My point being, no literal return of Jesus, no literal thousand years, no literal fulfillment of the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgment, etc. Everything is spiritualized with them.

not 'spiritualised'. interpreted in accord with the book and the teaching of Jesus. although we certainly believe in the literal return of Jesus! You are misleading everyone with your lies.

 

[Dan_473]

I've had this vague memory the whole time I've been posting on this thread, that I'd resolved the whole 'devil' issue in my mind before.

Then I remembered James 4 and I'm glad other people have posted this too,
Humble yourself before God, resist the devil and he'll take off.

So if satan is roaming around the earth or not (I think he is), the important thing is we humble ourselves before God, resist the devil, and then he's not roaming around us.

 

[Linda70]

Great verses Dan!

James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
James 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1 Peter 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

What is the purpose of submitting yourself to God and resisting the devil if the devil is already bound? I haven't seen anyone of the amill crowd post any Scripture verse (or verses) stating where the devil is bound at the present time.

So, amills, where is the devil bound right now?

 

[Dan_473]

If Satan went his way then he went on his own. There is no bounding that takes place. God knew full well how the ancient texts were to be interpreted and represented in the major versions of the bible.

It is clearly evident, from many passages, despite your own wresting with scripture to suit your particular point of view, that Satan will not be bound until the beginning of the 1000 year reign of Jesus. At the end of that time he will be released to deceive the nations once again until the time comes that he is thrown in the lake of fire. Pretty Simple.

You try your best to make it seem like only a biblical scholar, due to the original languages that the bible was written, is capable of accurate interpretation. If that is true then the bible has no relevance for the 99.95% of the others who take the bible at its word and the spirit that was intended.

Even Elvis would agree that the bible was meant to be understood by those who thirst for the truth and desire to apply it to their lives.

An excellent point!

I think there are many illiterate people who have a better understanding of God and his ways and the fruits of the spirit than the most notable scholars.

 

[Dan_473]

Great verses Dan!

James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
James 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1 Peter 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

What is the purpose of submitting yourself to God and resisting the devil if the devil is already bound? I haven't seen anyone of the amill crowd post any Scripture verse (or verses) stating where the devil is bound at the present time.

So, amills, where is the devil bound right now?

Thanks!

Your post reminded me of that old praise song from James 4:10, Humble yourself in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up!

 

[Bowman]

According to the bible. I didn't write the book.

You just mis-interpret it...

 

[Bowman]

No the point I was trying to make was Christians because they have God they can cast him down every time he tries to deceive us in the imaginations of our heart ..That will occur all the way up until the last day. It is like I suggested .What is he bound from, seeing you cannot literally bind a lying spirit that has no dna ..

He is still the god of this world and will be until both him and this present corrupted creation shown by its aging, decaying process leading towards death at the end of time, the last day, the last trump signified by the word thousand which began over two thousand literal years ago.

If it began a literal thousand year ago. Where is the fleshly Jesus in whom men say he is still clothed with? Should we not be able to see him reigning since a literal thousand years has passed?

We must also conclude that Satan is spiritually bound (or curtailed) now through the victory of the Lord Jesus Christ at the cross, and that Christ now reigns victoriously in the world in the hearts of His blood bought people –– ‘‘the Church.’’

That's dancing around the question.

Q: Who cast Satan from Heaven?