The Modern “Grace Message” — Revolution or Rebellion?
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That seems to be a common untrue and completely false accusation...here is a short video about Jude 4...you will find the word "turning the grace" actually means to "replace the grace" of God which is exact opposite of what believers in Christ's grace believe.
Grace teaches us how to live godly in this present world. Titus 2:11-12
[video=youtube;5fIqZ5sPSEg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fIqZ5sPSEg[/video]
Grace teaches us how to live godly in this present world. Titus 2:11-12
[video=youtube;5fIqZ5sPSEg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fIqZ5sPSEg[/video]
What utter.......... (I can't even think of a word to describe the foolishness.)
What on earth is "a clean, obedient faithful grace?" Jesus sat down and ate in the houses of the unclean, disobedient, faithless sinners of His day. So, we can't be expected to do such detestable things as He did. Of course not. I guess we are supposed to sit in our isolated pews, and disdain the unwashed masses?
What on Earth is the "clean, obedient, faithfulness" you speak of? Can you describe how that is lived out in daily life?
What on earth is "a clean, obedient faithful grace?" Jesus sat down and ate in the houses of the unclean, disobedient, faithless sinners of His day. So, we can't be expected to do such detestable things as He did. Of course not. I guess we are supposed to sit in our isolated pews, and disdain the unwashed masses?
What on Earth is the "clean, obedient, faithfulness" you speak of? Can you describe how that is lived out in daily life?
There is simply some mis-understanding of what is actually being said and then there are just some people that don't agree with some aspects of it so they attack it vehemently.
Sometimes what is said is "twisted" to make it say something it is not really saying ...like "go and sin all you want"...this is the complete opposite of what believers in the grace of Christ teach.
When we preach the gospel that Paul did, you are going to get opposition against it just like he did. When you preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?...are you saying we can sin all we want now?" If no one says that - you are not preaching the true gospel of the grace of Christ.
Paul himself had to in Romans alone speak 4x times to this issue. He said he was slandered because some said he is saying to "go out and sin all you want" ( Romans 3:8 ). They did not understand the true gospel. Make no mistake about it. The gospel of Christ alone for salvation is offensive to certain types of people.
Sometimes what is said is "twisted" to make it say something it is not really saying ...like "go and sin all you want"...this is the complete opposite of what believers in the grace of Christ teach.
When we preach the gospel that Paul did, you are going to get opposition against it just like he did. When you preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?...are you saying we can sin all we want now?" If no one says that - you are not preaching the true gospel of the grace of Christ.
Paul himself had to in Romans alone speak 4x times to this issue. He said he was slandered because some said he is saying to "go out and sin all you want" ( Romans 3:8 ). They did not understand the true gospel. Make no mistake about it. The gospel of Christ alone for salvation is offensive to certain types of people.
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We can agree without grace, We would die in our sins and trepass.
We can agree that faith is an unearned gift from God.
However we disagree that santification is by grace and faith alone, because in James we are encouraged to add to our faith, virtue, knowledge, self control, perservance, brotherly kindness and love.
Faith is just the beginning but it tells us that what God starts in our lives, He will see it finished but we still need to learn to walk with Him and not whine like babies who always want to be carried. Or give up if we fsll, but learn to persevere.
We can agree that faith is an unearned gift from God.
However we disagree that santification is by grace and faith alone, because in James we are encouraged to add to our faith, virtue, knowledge, self control, perservance, brotherly kindness and love.
Faith is just the beginning but it tells us that what God starts in our lives, He will see it finished but we still need to learn to walk with Him and not whine like babies who always want to be carried. Or give up if we fsll, but learn to persevere.
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The way you apply that verse is troubling....can we continue and read more?
*Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; *for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.*Do all things without complaining and disputing, *that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, *holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain. - Philippians 2:12-16
*Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; *for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.*Do all things without complaining and disputing, *that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, *holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain. - Philippians 2:12-16
True...and Paul calls it "slander" in Romans 3:8..it's a work of the flesh just like adultery..etc....it's just socially accepted in some Christian circles because it is not the "biggie sins" like adultery, fornication, stealing..etc.
I wonder if these types of people living in the flesh will go to heaven even though they have never stolen or committed fornication like the real bad Christians might have done?
( Of course they will go to heaven....salvation for being with Christ is not dependent on what we do but what He has already done. )
I wonder if these types of people living in the flesh will go to heaven even though they have never stolen or committed fornication like the real bad Christians might have done?
( Of course they will go to heaven....salvation for being with Christ is not dependent on what we do but what He has already done. )
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The reason we work is not to obtain our own salvation but because we have been saved and God uses us to be a light into the lives of others.
I can't judge another's salvation but I can tell a brother or sister that their words are bitter, water their tongue hurtful barbs, their actions smothering the light and their lives not glorifying God.
I can state that they are still enslaved to their flesh and sin and can pray with them.
It's important to note How we are told to work...without complaining or disputing.
It's important to note why we work....to be blameless and harmless and a light to a perverse world.
I can't judge another's salvation but I can tell a brother or sister that their words are bitter, water their tongue hurtful barbs, their actions smothering the light and their lives not glorifying God.
I can state that they are still enslaved to their flesh and sin and can pray with them.
It's important to note How we are told to work...without complaining or disputing.
It's important to note why we work....to be blameless and harmless and a light to a perverse world.
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Let's take a poll....how many people in this thread actually read the original article?
Just curious to see how many actually want to have a conversation or just want to hear themselves speak.
I believe a lot of misunderstanding and false accusations would be avoided if people spent more time reading what others actually post and less tell others what others say or think.
Cut out the gossip, get it straight from the source.
The original article doesn't preach a works based salvation....so why erect a straw man and burn it?
Just curious to see how many actually want to have a conversation or just want to hear themselves speak.
I believe a lot of misunderstanding and false accusations would be avoided if people spent more time reading what others actually post and less tell others what others say or think.
Cut out the gossip, get it straight from the source.
The original article doesn't preach a works based salvation....so why erect a straw man and burn it?
It is the difference between being a faithful Bride dressed in white, or playing the Harlot with the ways of the world, thus being disobedient and unfaithful.
God's grace is given to those who truly love Him, and keep His commandments...
Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Deuteronomy 5:10
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
This kind of love for God is what Hyper grace calls "legalism" or "works Salvationism" or DIY "self righteousness".
God's grace is given to those who truly love Him, and keep His commandments...
Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Deuteronomy 5:10
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
This kind of love for God is what Hyper grace calls "legalism" or "works Salvationism" or DIY "self righteousness".
It was when He rebuked the Hypocrites....those who say, but do not.
There is definitely some confusion on your part in comparing Pharisees with grace believers in Christ alone for salvation.
Jesus exposed their D.I.Y self-righteousness and condemned it. He showed grace to those that knew they needed a Savior as they knew that their works would never get them to heaven.
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