Hell. It is in the Bible isnt it?

[kedge]

The interpretation of the whole word is not wholly divided.

But division can cause disenchantment.

It is only a few certain things that people will disagree on.

But they are important nonetheless, in many ways it is serious, one's life could depend on it.

Because not all are reading the word in the letter of the spirit. Thats the truth whether you agree or not.

One can not ignore the fact that there are many Christians who disagree with Christians on Scripture and its true meaning, one could deprive another of the true message through misinterpretations.

It's only the spirit of God that can teach and until a person surrenders to that, he cannot properly learn.

And yet many have and yet many Christians are divided on Scripture.

Wouldnt you want to know the absolute truth taught by Gods spirit other than a mere man?

And it is mere man (Christians) that are interpreting Scripture.

God teaches us in all things and that includes being able to discern what is truth and what is not.

That is what many Christians say and that is their prerogative to hold fast to their own convictions, surely there can be only one truth in Scripture? and yet there are different interpretations by Christians therefore different truths and yet there is only one Holy Spirit. This, is a huge problem.

Mature discernment comes with maturity.

Research leads to knowledge, knowledge leads to truth, tell me, what, exactly, is the truth about what hell really is?

 

[MsSuzanna]

Ya, it seems like that same spirit of God has been teaching something to one believer regarding a specific subject in the Bible, and another to other believer. Can that be the case? No. One of us is deceived. If we talk about the omnipotence, the eternal LOVE, and the eternally magnificent grace of Christ, then unfortunately that eternal grace, eternal love and righteousness doesn't seem to apply to people who were completely ignorant of Christ in the pre-Christ period or era.

We got a problem with our doctrine here then, if we think all souls within the pre-Christ era outside of Israel like India, China and Africa all will burned and tormented in Hell for eternity unto eternity? Really?

God makes himself known to all creation.
Romans 1: 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.…


Psalm 19:1
For the choir director. A Psalm of David. The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.

Isaiah 40:21
Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been declared to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?

 

[Mitspa]

I noticed you highlighted the bit about 'man has no preeminence over animals', it is not me deliberately perverting or confusing Scripture it is Scripture itself that makes one interpret it a way it can be interpreted, even Jesus Christ confuses me, it is not easy reading and understanding that's for sure and I am not even sure if I am meant to understand the Holy Bible anyway, it appears it was only meant for the apostles and Jesus took them aside to explain, how can Jesus take a modern man aside and explain by mouth in person? why has God selected only a few? and which few should I believe? what to do? and who should we trust in this deceptive world that we all live in? seriously, why should I believe what another modern day sinner interprets?.


the confusing scripture about man not having preeminence over animals

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20
For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust.

I read Matthew, Mark, Luke and just started on John over the weekend, I was often scratching my head in disbelief and confusion, haha

What Jesus Christ spoke According to Matthew

To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: “You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive. For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.” But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.


Scratches head, I really truly do not understand a lot of the Bible? but at some point (if i choose to continue with all this?) I am just going to have to trust in others.

What point do you think you are making with those passages? Your idea that men and animals are the same is just silly ..yes the body will go back to dust...but that has nothing to do with the soul of a man verses a animal .. You seem like troll to me.

 

[kedge]

Im not your sister.

Ok, there really was no adam nor eve?

You told me you are not a christian.

I don't presume I am anything, tell me, what constitutes a Christian?

The content is in the body of the thread.

Content or contentious?

 

[kedge]

Your idea that men and animals are the same is just silly.

It's not my idea it's in the Bible, did you not see the Holy Scripture?

 

[kedge]

the soul of a man verses a animal.

Depends on the definition of what a soul is, a soul could be a body so yes animals and man have bodies. To claim a man has an invisible soul lurking inside him is based on philisophical and theological speculative conjecture.

 

[organicbeast]

God makes himself known to all creation.
Romans 1: 18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.…

That verse that you mentioned, you have taken it out of context I think. It talks about the timeline from Genesis to all the time period of the Israelites in the OT.

Please show me scriptures on how the eternal power, and divine nature of God/Christ has been clearly seen and understood by the people of the world during the pre-Christ era., for ex: India, China and Africa.

 

[organicbeast]

Depends on the definition of what a soul is, a soul could be a body so yes animals and man have bodies. To claim a man has an invisible soul lurking inside him is based on philisophical and theological speculative conjecture.

Yes it seems the scriptures say that we are made up of 'body, soul and spirit'. Body is body the physical component. Soul is personality. Spirit is the breath of Life that God gave us and also the ability to communicate with Him.

"Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1st Thess 5:23

 

[kedge]

Depends on the definition of what a soul is, a soul could be a body so yes animals and man have bodies. To claim a man has an invisible soul lurking inside him is based on philisophical and theological speculative conjecture.

Spelling mistake (philisophcal) philosophical, inb4 the grammar gremlins

 

[kedge]

Yes it seems the scriptures say that we are made up of 'body, soul and spirit'. Body is body the physical component. Soul is personality. Spirit is the breath of Life that God gave us and also the ability to communicate with Him.

That is how I interpret it, I agree. Anyway, I am getting off this merry-go-round. I must try to maintain love for friend or foe.

 

[organicbeast]

That is how I interpret it, I agree. Anyway, I am getting off this merry-go-round. I must try to maintain love for friend or foe.

Yep. Suzanne has already broken off all ties with you! Now she doesn't know you or recognize you. I hope she has not shut the doors of salvation on you!

 

[VCO]

Even the Hindus believe in a God including the Muslims. IMO, I don't believe you are qualified to make that statement to somebody who has never HEARD of "CHRIST". You are expecting some ignorant human being to come to the knowledge of Christ from empty air? Keep it up! Your statement is an eternally hopeless one to the one that perished w/o the knowledge of Christ back in the days.HOW would you approach a person in the Pre-Christ period to believe in Him? Are you expecting the knowledge of Christ to be in-built within every human being that is born in this natural world? Really?

Do you know what the scriptures say about the carnal/natural mind of every human being that is born into this world?

Romans 8:7 - "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be"

I needed to hear what you had to say, and it is clear. ALL SOULS within the PRE-CHRIST era are going to be burned in and tormented in HELL for eternity and eternity.

Thanks VCO for enlightening my mind.

As WRONG as can BE, you hear what you want to hear, and remain blind is can be to what I am saying:

What about the Old Testament Saints?


I believe the Bride is the sum total of all true believers of all time.

We NT saints are those who believe Jesus is the Messiah and received HIM as Lord.

The OT saints are those who believed Messiah would come and received HIM EVEN THOUGH THEY KNEW NOT WHAT HIS NAME WOULD BE.

See it, it is the same faith, the Faith of Abraham.

Jeremiah 2:2 (NIV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]"Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem: "'I remember the devotion of your youth, how as a bride you loved me and followed me through the desert, through a land not sown.

Isaiah 62:5 (ASV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee; and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.


Ephesians 5:23 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of the body.

NOW THAT TRANSLATED TO ENGLISH LITERALLY? NO, and neither was this:

Matthew 16:18 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.


I have news for you the word CHURCH is NOT in the original language Greek Manuscripts:

Ephesians 5:23 (YLT)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] because the husband is head of the wife, as also the Christ is head of the assembly, and he is saviour of the body,

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT? The ASSEMBLY is what the gathered group of Old Testament Believers were called. I suspect someone in the very early Translations, (which is NOT the KJV as the Original Preface of the 1611 KJV, openly admits it is a paraphrase of earlier English translations); hated the Jews and wanted to disassociate NT Believers from OT Believers, so they substituted the word CHURCH for the literal translation THE ASSEMBLY. The first member of the ASSEMBLY was ADAM, and the last member of the ASSEMBLY that our LORD is building will be the last martyred Saint of the Great Tribulation Period. THE BRIDE OF CHRIST IS THE ASSEMBLY made up of OT Saints and NT Saints.

John 10:16 (YLT)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] and other sheep {NT BELIEVERS} I have that are not of this fold {OT BELIEVERS}, these also it behoveth me to bring, and my voice they will hear, and there shall become one flock{THE ASSEMBLY}--one shepherd {THE BRIDGROOM, JESUS CHRIST}.

 

[VCO]

As WRONG as can BE, you hear what you want to hear, and remain blind is can be to what I am saying:

What about the Old Testament Saints?


I believe the Bride is the sum total of all true believers of all time.

We NT saints are those who believe Jesus is the Messiah and received HIM as Lord.

The OT saints are those who believed Messiah would come and received HIM EVEN THOUGH THEY KNEW NOT WHAT HIS NAME WOULD BE.

See it, it is the same faith, the Faith of Abraham.

Jeremiah 2:2 (NIV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]"Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem: "'I remember the devotion of your youth, how as a bride you loved me and followed me through the desert, through a land not sown.

Isaiah 62:5 (ASV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee; and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.


Ephesians 5:23 (HCSB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of the body.

NOW THAT TRANSLATED TO ENGLISH LITERALLY? NO, and neither was this:

Matthew 16:18 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.


I have news for you the word CHURCH is NOT in the original language Greek Manuscripts:

Ephesians 5:23 (YLT)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] because the husband is head of the wife, as also the Christ is head of the assembly, and he is saviour of the body,

Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT? The ASSEMBLY is what the gathered group of Old Testament Believers were called. I suspect someone in the very early Translations, (which is NOT the KJV as the Original Preface of the 1611 KJV, openly admits it is a paraphrase of earlier English translations); hated the Jews and wanted to disassociate NT Believers from OT Believers, so they substituted the word CHURCH for the literal translation THE ASSEMBLY. The first member of the ASSEMBLY was ADAM, and the last member of the ASSEMBLY that our LORD is building will be the last martyred Saint of the Great Tribulation Period. THE BRIDE OF CHRIST IS THE ASSEMBLY made up of OT Saints and NT Saints.

John 10:16 (YLT)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] and othersheep{NT BELIEVERS} I have that are not of this fold {OT BELIEVERS}, these also it behoveth me to bring, and my voice they will hear, and there shall become one flock{THE ASSEMBLY}--one shepherd {THE BRIDGROOM, JESUS CHRIST}.

FORGOT ONE VERSE, sorry:

WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT? The ASSEMBLY is what GOD called the gathered group of Old Testament Believers.

Leviticus 16:33 (ASV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] and he shall make atonement for the holy sanctuary; and he shall make atonement for the tent of meeting and for the altar; and he shall make atonement for the priests and for all the people of the assembly.

 

[organicbeast]

As WRONG as can BE, you hear what you want to hear, and remain blind is can be to what I am saying:

What about the Old Testament Saints?

I believe the Bride is the sum total of all true believers of all time.

We NT saints are those who believe Jesus is the Messiah and received HIM as Lord.

The OT saints are those who believed Messiah would come and received HIM EVEN THOUGH THEY KNEW NOT WHAT HIS NAME WOULD BE.

VCO, I've already closed your case but you came back with the scriptures again that I am already familiar with and heard and read them myself as I am fortunate to be born and alive in the post-Christ era.

Why don't you go and preach the Bible to those dead souls of the pre-Christ era? India, China, Africa and other nations in the corners of the world. Can you do that? I somehow doubt that.

But Christ did it, and in fact he preached to all those dead souls in prison who once rebelled against God during the first earth period. You see the magnificent mercy and grace of God?

Sadly, it seems you've already pronounced your judgement and gave your verdict to all those SOULS around the world during the pre-Christ era that they will be ALL tormented, and tortured in Hell for eternity unto eternity.

Please don't come back to me with scriptures again, I rather wish you could visit those dead souls who died without any hope or reconciliation with God.

Thanks

 

[VCO]

VCO, I've already closed your case but you came back with the scriptures again that I am already familiar with and heard and read them myself as I am fortunate to be born and alive in the post-Christ era.

Why don't you go and preach the Bible to those dead souls of the pre-Christ era? India, China, Africa and other nations in the corners of the world. Can you do that? I somehow doubt that.

But Christ did it, and in fact he preached to all those dead souls in prison who once rebelled against God during the first earth period. You see the magnificent mercy and grace of God?

Sadly, it seems you've already pronounced your judgement and gave your verdict to all those SOULS around the world during the pre-Christ era that they will be ALL tormented, and tortured in Hell for eternity unto eternity.

Please don't come back to me with scriptures again, I rather wish you could visit those dead souls who died without any hope or reconciliation with God.

Thanks

Only if they reject the light of evidence for GOD the Creator, even if that light is but a blossom on a pear tree.

But a free gift does not become yours until you receive it.

As for your suggestion as to where I should go, WOULDN'T THAT BE SOMETHING!
I used to long and pray for that opportunity, but God had other plans. He opened the doors for me to become the first Volunteer Chaplain in the baddest Prison Security Housing Unit (the Hole), in California. I was a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain in the California Department of Corrections for 15 years. My health and bad back would not allow me to go now. How about you go for me, I know people who can get you on the Amazon River to minister to Jungle Tribes? How does that sound?

Matthew 28:19-20 (ASV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, {ethnos - ethnic groups}
baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
[SUP]20 [/SUP] teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

 

[organicbeast]

yes the body will go back to dust...but that has nothing to do with the soul of a man verses a animal .. You seem like troll to me.

Interesting that you mentioned. The only difference between us and animals is we have a spirit and they do not. But, both animals and humans have souls/personality(s) and physical bodies. So they defecate and urinate and we defecate and urinate. Besides humans, even animals have testosterone and estrogen.

Natural man has all the aggressive, crafty and evil qualities that surpasses us beyond all other beasts. Natural man is simply a beast, with a spirit inside him. So, we know that the carnal/natural mind is not in the image of God/Christ as it operates in enmity to God. [Romans 8:7]

And also the Bible says, "so that you maybe conformed into the image of his Son?" [Romans 8:29]
So whose image were you/your-natural-side was in to begin with before, due to that the conversion to the image of His son deems necessary? Wanna take a guess?

 

[organicbeast]

Only if they reject the light of evidence for GOD the Creator, even if that light is but a blossom on a pear tree.

Finally the old man has changed his mind eh j/k.

My health and bad back would not allow me to go now. How about you go for me, I know people who can get you on the Amazon River to minister to Jungle Tribes? How does that sound?

Ahh sorry sir, but I have a desire to go to Iraq and die there as a martyr if possible. That's my zeal. There is too much tyranny and injustice being perpetrated against women and children there. Sexual slavery in the 21st century, can you believe it?

 

[Magenta]

Ahh sorry sir, but I have a desire to go to Iraq and die there as a martyr if possible. That's my zeal. There is too much tyranny and injustice being perpetrated against women and children there. Sexual slavery in the 21st century, can you believe it?

You need not leave your country to fight against men tyrannizing women, sexually or otherwise.

 

[organicbeast]

You need not leave your country to fight against men tyrannizing women, sexually or otherwise.

Oh no maam, I wish not to go there to repay evil with evil, but with Good through the will of God. But without an anointing and calling from God, I prefer to wait on Him. But, I have asked him many times

 

[MsSuzanna]

That verse that you mentioned, you have taken it out of context I think. It talks about the timeline from Genesis to all the time period of the Israelites in the OT.

Please show me scriptures on how the eternal power, and divine nature of God/Christ has been clearly seen and understood by the people of the world during the pre-Christ era., for ex: India, China and Africa.

No. I did not take it out of context. God has made himself known through creation as you see it now or yesterday or tomorrow. Does not india,china, or africa has a sky with birds? Do they not have oceans that are held within their realm? Do they not have all kinds of amazing wonders that they ask themselves in their minds and God hears them? Does not God answer them so that they can understand? God is not limited to a continent or language. He is able to reach all mankind .

THAT IS WHAT THAT SCRIPTURE IS SAYING.