Verse for "once saved always saved"?
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S
1 John 3:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
This verse is saying those born again literally cannot sin. This does not mean "practice sin" as some interpret, but it means those "born of God" are not able to sin. All of our sin has been removed as far as the East from the West as far as God is concerned. We are "one spirit with Him". He cannot be in the presence of sin. The only way we can sin is in our flesh. To God, our flesh died with Jesus on the cross. He sees us as already perfected and in the glorified state because He sees the future. There is nothing we can do in our flesh to separate us from God, He saw us crucified with Christ and our flesh is no more! Read this passage carefully from 1 Corinthians.....
1 Corinthians 15:45-50
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
[SUP]50 [/SUP]Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
This verse is saying those born again literally cannot sin. This does not mean "practice sin" as some interpret, but it means those "born of God" are not able to sin. All of our sin has been removed as far as the East from the West as far as God is concerned. We are "one spirit with Him". He cannot be in the presence of sin. The only way we can sin is in our flesh. To God, our flesh died with Jesus on the cross. He sees us as already perfected and in the glorified state because He sees the future. There is nothing we can do in our flesh to separate us from God, He saw us crucified with Christ and our flesh is no more! Read this passage carefully from 1 Corinthians.....
1 Corinthians 15:45-50
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
[SUP]50 [/SUP]Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Note: When I started this thread I asked: Is there a verse that states clearly "once saved always saved". I didn't ask for a verse saying how people could lose their salvation. If such a verse exists or not is not the point of the original question of this thread. People make the statement "once saved always saved" or "once a son always a son" and I wonder if it is clearly found in Scripture?
Unfair assumption: You haven't found me saying in this thread that if a verse clearly stating "once saved always saved" isn't found that then it follows that a person can lose their salvation. I am asking if the belief "once saved always saved" is based on a verse that states it clearly or if it a result of Scriptural interpretation?
Response to #128
Response to #128
You have asked and have been answered. You have stated that you have had this debate on other forums and places. You have said you have studied the Bible for many yrs and have studied Greek for 20 yrs.
I submit you are NOT looking for a verse that says the words "once saved always saved" but you knew this the second you joined and started a thread about this subject. I spoke early about the need to ignore you and thought you did deserve the benefit of the doubt.
For me at least, the jury is in and you wanted to cause strife. I wish you well in you walk with Christ, and I pray He works in your heart to stop this fruitless quest and simply love the brethren.
I submit you are NOT looking for a verse that says the words "once saved always saved" but you knew this the second you joined and started a thread about this subject. I spoke early about the need to ignore you and thought you did deserve the benefit of the doubt.
For me at least, the jury is in and you wanted to cause strife. I wish you well in you walk with Christ, and I pray He works in your heart to stop this fruitless quest and simply love the brethren.
[/QUOTE]
Hi Sir Chester,
So I now surely understand your point, you are looking a verse for a word for word that does say “Once saved always saved” in this case, we are all looking for naught. That maybe the reason why others abandoned your original OP and even your 20 years Greek study would surely found none just saying. But any way glad to meet
Hi Sir Chester,
So I now surely understand your point, you are looking a verse for a word for word that does say “Once saved always saved” in this case, we are all looking for naught. That maybe the reason why others abandoned your original OP and even your 20 years Greek study would surely found none just saying. But any way glad to meet
Nice try, only you have not considered “rightly dividing the word of truth” .But there’s also a need to know that there are practical atheists. They are religious but lost. One thing more, we cannot earn or merit salvation, ‘tis already done deal. God already placed its effort so you will no longer put fort effort. Christ said “TETELESTAI” and the old hymn says “Would you be free from your passions and pride? There is POWER in the BLOOD!” That’s in the blood of the Lamb.
Hello BibleGuy,
It so happen that I am a Gentile by birth and saved by God's grace and I am not of the "house of Israel." Bless you too
[h=1]Ezekiel 18:24-26King James Version (KJV)[/h][SUP]24 [/SUP]But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
It so happen that I am a Gentile by birth and saved by God's grace and I am not of the "house of Israel." Bless you too
[h=1]Ezekiel 18:24-26King James Version (KJV)[/h][SUP]24 [/SUP]But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Well said! There is a massive difference between the Old Covenant which was based on man "doing " things in order to get God to do something - we now live in the New Covenant which is by grace through faith in what Christ has already done for us. Grace says "Jesus did all".
The Old Covenant is now obsolete for a good reason. Live in the new covenant where God's righteousness inside our new creation reigns - in Christ we are created in righteousness and holiness - Eph 4:24.
The Old Covenant is now obsolete for a good reason. Live in the new covenant where God's righteousness inside our new creation reigns - in Christ we are created in righteousness and holiness - Eph 4:24.
John 6:37 - All that the Father gives me shall come to me; and him that comes to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
Romans 8:29 "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son.
Romans 8:38 - For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:3-5 - Blessed be the God...who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable
----
I know, there is no "once saved, always saved" wording, but the meaning is the same.
John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
Romans 8:29 "For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son.
Romans 8:38 - For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:3-5 - Blessed be the God...who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable
----
I know, there is no "once saved, always saved" wording, but the meaning is the same.
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Amen..and believing in what Christ has already done is called "being obedient to the faith"...some try to make this to mean " to do what I am doing - then you are being obedient ".
We live from an exchanged life now and as we see Christ in us - His life will manifest out of our inner man - and this life affects our outward behavior and renews our mind.
B
Believe is a verb. And a verb is a action word. Faith is not a verb. Same in the english same in the greek.
Back sliding back slider back sliden. All the referances must then be 1. A bad translation. 2. Typographical error. 3. Just a joke?
4. A warning to those of us that have repented and been baptised.
James the brother of my Lord wrote.
Chapter5
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Back sliding back slider back sliden. All the referances must then be 1. A bad translation. 2. Typographical error. 3. Just a joke?
4. A warning to those of us that have repented and been baptised.
James the brother of my Lord wrote.
Chapter5
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Hello Fredoheaven!
You wrote: "...I am not of the 'house of Israel' ".
My response: Then you are NOT participating in the New Covenant.
Remember? The New Covenant is ONLY between YHVH and Israel (Jer. 31:33; Heb. 8:10).
Now, the truth is that you surely DO participate in the New Covenant, right?
Well then, it follows that you ARE included as a fellow Israelite in the House of Israel....you just don't know it yet!
Yes...Gentiles are not consider strangers...but are welcomed as fellow participants in the COVENANTS (plural) between YHVH and Israel (Eph. 2:12).
And, we Christians (i.e., Israelites) should live the way Israelites should be living....in obedience to the TORAH of the covenants in which we participate.
Remember? Torah passes directly into the New Covenant (Jer. 31:33; Heb. 8:10; Heb. 10:15-16).
Moreover, Jesus said the prophets are NOT abolished (Mt. 5:17).
That's why Eze. 18:24-26 still applies to us as Christians...because we Christians have been grafted into Israel so as to participate in the covenants between YHVH and Israel.
blessings...
BibleGuy
You wrote: "...I am not of the 'house of Israel' ".
My response: Then you are NOT participating in the New Covenant.
Remember? The New Covenant is ONLY between YHVH and Israel (Jer. 31:33; Heb. 8:10).
Now, the truth is that you surely DO participate in the New Covenant, right?
Well then, it follows that you ARE included as a fellow Israelite in the House of Israel....you just don't know it yet!
Yes...Gentiles are not consider strangers...but are welcomed as fellow participants in the COVENANTS (plural) between YHVH and Israel (Eph. 2:12).
And, we Christians (i.e., Israelites) should live the way Israelites should be living....in obedience to the TORAH of the covenants in which we participate.
Remember? Torah passes directly into the New Covenant (Jer. 31:33; Heb. 8:10; Heb. 10:15-16).
Moreover, Jesus said the prophets are NOT abolished (Mt. 5:17).
That's why Eze. 18:24-26 still applies to us as Christians...because we Christians have been grafted into Israel so as to participate in the covenants between YHVH and Israel.
blessings...
BibleGuy
I would like to make a few comments about what you wrote here:
Quote : KenAllen # 169 "The reason many people believe and teach we can lose our Salvation is because they have no Foundation. They are not grounded in Jesus nor do they really understand what Salvation is."
This is your opinion and as an opinion it may be correct. But what about the person who grows up and is taught that a person can lose his salvation. And yet this person knows Jesus, pursues him, and has deeply known the love of God in his life. Does this person have "no Foundation" ? Such a person may come to this forum honestly seeking truth.
Quote :"Look at Ephesians 2:8,9.
Ephesians 2:8,9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not of works, lest anyone should boast.
First, we have been Saved. This means we have received Salvation from God. Second we have been saved by Grace and Faith. Where in this verse does it say anything about receiving Salvation by not sinning?"
It doesn't say anywhere in this verse that we receive salvation by not sinning
Quote: "Since Salvation is not received by not sinning then Salvation cannot be lost by sinning!"
I agree with both your premise here and also the conclusion. But let me point out that I don't see how the conclusion is proved by the premise. Example: Since you don't get a job at MacDonalds by not shooting the manager, then the job at MacDonalds cannot be lost by shooting the manager.
Let me point out that that many people who do not hold to "once saved always saved" also agree with my current position (my opinion): salvation is lost when we lose our faith in God (not because of sins we commit).
Quote: "We receive Grace and Faith from God because NO one goes looking for God.
Romans 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
If none seek for God and all have turned aside, then where do we receive the Faith needed for Salvation?
We receive the Faith from God FIRST then we seek Him out and receive Salvation!
Face it folks, trying to keep your Salvation by your deeds is a waste of time. We can never lose our Salvation because receiving Salvation is based on what God has done, not on what we have done."
The lines above are interesting to me because I would basically agree with you (I might say it in different words or a different way). So when you say - "Face it folks, trying to keep your salvation by your deeds is a waste of time" I agree wholeheartedly and say "Amen"! But where I am confused is that you then make the statement "we can never lose our salvation because receiving salvation is based on what God has done, not on what we have done." I get the last part (salvation is based on what God has done), but I don't see how it follows dogmatically that this means we can "never lose our salvation".
Quote : KenAllen # 169 "The reason many people believe and teach we can lose our Salvation is because they have no Foundation. They are not grounded in Jesus nor do they really understand what Salvation is."
This is your opinion and as an opinion it may be correct. But what about the person who grows up and is taught that a person can lose his salvation. And yet this person knows Jesus, pursues him, and has deeply known the love of God in his life. Does this person have "no Foundation" ? Such a person may come to this forum honestly seeking truth.
Quote :"Look at Ephesians 2:8,9.
Ephesians 2:8,9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not of works, lest anyone should boast.
First, we have been Saved. This means we have received Salvation from God. Second we have been saved by Grace and Faith. Where in this verse does it say anything about receiving Salvation by not sinning?"
It doesn't say anywhere in this verse that we receive salvation by not sinning
Quote: "Since Salvation is not received by not sinning then Salvation cannot be lost by sinning!"
I agree with both your premise here and also the conclusion. But let me point out that I don't see how the conclusion is proved by the premise. Example: Since you don't get a job at MacDonalds by not shooting the manager, then the job at MacDonalds cannot be lost by shooting the manager.
Let me point out that that many people who do not hold to "once saved always saved" also agree with my current position (my opinion): salvation is lost when we lose our faith in God (not because of sins we commit).
Quote: "We receive Grace and Faith from God because NO one goes looking for God.
Romans 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
If none seek for God and all have turned aside, then where do we receive the Faith needed for Salvation?
We receive the Faith from God FIRST then we seek Him out and receive Salvation!
Face it folks, trying to keep your Salvation by your deeds is a waste of time. We can never lose our Salvation because receiving Salvation is based on what God has done, not on what we have done."
The lines above are interesting to me because I would basically agree with you (I might say it in different words or a different way). So when you say - "Face it folks, trying to keep your salvation by your deeds is a waste of time" I agree wholeheartedly and say "Amen"! But where I am confused is that you then make the statement "we can never lose our salvation because receiving salvation is based on what God has done, not on what we have done." I get the last part (salvation is based on what God has done), but I don't see how it follows dogmatically that this means we can "never lose our salvation".
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