Verse for "once saved always saved"?

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Gr8grace

Guest
I rejoice knowing God will never forsake us, however, we have free will and I believe that means we can walk away from His saving grace in Jesus. Just a gut feeling; hopefully I'm wrong. :)
The ones that have walked away from Grace............think salvation can be lost.

But they still have eternal life from Him saving them, IF they actually did have a moment in time when they placed full trust in Him alone.
 
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Gr8grace

Guest
You would hope, but not every Christian is being discipled properly, not every Christian has a Bible, not every Christian can attend a church, not every Christian has good circumstances to grow in their faith. Some, if not many, get sucked right back into the ways of this world, carnal living.
And from my experience, they don't go back to the pub or a needle. The majority walk away from Him into religion and try to make their flesh better. Carnal living from the "good" side of our flesh. Moral degeneracy,not immoral degeneracy.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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If we "walk by the Spirit" we will always "know" the price Christ paid. However, unless we are continuing in the knowledge of grace we can lose our sensitivity to the gospel. Yes it is possible to "walk away" and still be saved. That is why Hebrews was written.
Hebrews 10:22-23

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)


https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/mcgee_j_vernon/Hbr/Hebrews.cfm
A person will never be what they were before they were saved. How can they? With God in them, Chastening them, and if need be,, bringing them home. But I can;t believe a child of God can act like the world.. I tried, it was impossible for me.. God would not let me..

and I spent 5 years of hell trying, and could not do it..
 
Mar 14, 2011
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You would hope, but not every Christian is being discipled properly, not every Christian has a Bible, not every Christian can attend a church, not every Christian has good circumstances to grow in their faith. Some, if not many, get sucked right back into the ways of this world, carnal living.
They will not live exactly the way they lived before.

You ever been chastened by God? I have, No matter how hard you try, if your born of God, You can;t do it.

If you can, I would question your salvation.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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The ones that have walked away from Grace............think salvation can be lost.

But they still have eternal life from Him saving them, IF they actually did have a moment in time when they placed full trust in Him alone.
Key words "If They"
 

Scriptureplz

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
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A person will never be what they were before they were saved. How can they? With God in them, Chastening them, and if need be,, bringing them home. But I can;t believe a child of God can act like the world.. I tried, it was impossible for me.. God would not let me..

and I spent 5 years of hell trying, and could not do it..
That's right, you tried for 5 years, I tried for 20 years. I guess we need to define what "walk away" means? To the Hebrews it meant go back under the Old Covenant, but I guess it could mean leave Gods will, or even His fellowship. But once we have been sealed with the "Holy Spirit of promise" upon faith in Christ, we can never walk away from salvation. It's because it's a work of God and it is completed the moment we believed the gospel. Only God knows if someone has believed or not. Our action in the flesh may or may not testify to it. Mine didn't for a long time and I wasted a lot of time. I got to the point that I was no longer sure of my salvation, but I was still saved whether I was sure of it or not because of HIS already completed work in me.

I haven't learned what everyone believes here yet, but I think we pretty much agree on most everything. Not trying to teach you anything, just showing my viewpoint of this.
 

PurerInHeart

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Apr 12, 2016
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I think you should listen to McGee to see if you can gain some understanding on this. Unless you think your understanding is true. I think McGee easily shows the error of your thinking if you would just listen though.
Im not here to hear from professor McGee, I'm here to CONSIDER what YOU have to say, in hopes that you will also CONSIDER what I have to say.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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That's right, you tried for 5 years, I tried for 20 years. I guess we need to define what "walk away" means? To the Hebrews it meant go back under the Old Covenant, but I guess it could mean leave Gods will, or even His fellowship. But once we have been sealed with the "Holy Spirit of promise" upon faith in Christ, we can never walk away from salvation. It's because it's a work of God and it is completed the moment we believed the gospel. Only God knows if someone has believed or not. Our action in the flesh may or may not testify to it. Mine didn't for a long time and I wasted a lot of time. I got to the point that I was no longer sure of my salvation, but I was still saved whether I was sure of it or not because of HIS already completed work in me.

I haven't learned what everyone believes here yet, but I think we pretty much agree on most everything. Not trying to teach you anything, just showing my viewpoint of this.

I agree,, My version of walking away is becoming like the world again.. A child of God can not sin, because he has been born of God.

We can turn to religion, Get legalistic in our own lives, And even judge others, But to live like the heathen? Again, God would not allow it..

I just wanted you to see my point using my context. not saying you were wrong in what you were saying.. sorry if you thought I was being nasty.. I did not intend that
 

PurerInHeart

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2016
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The bible says there are those who were once enlightened, but left and can never return. You cannot leave someplace that you have never been to. And if someone leaves, you can't say they were never truly there to begin with.


(Denial ain't just a river in Egypt)
 
Sep 4, 2012
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The ones that have walked away from Grace............think salvation can be lost.

But they still have eternal life from Him saving them, IF they actually did have a moment in time when they placed full trust in Him alone.
That essentially encapsulates your Free Grace belief (not to be confused with the free gift of grace). A person believes one time (the right way) and is saved. That is salvation by nature (new birth), not by faith. IMO, this belief is indistinguishable from salvation by gnosis in which the divine spark within is awakened, and consequently can never perish.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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That's right, you tried for 5 years, I tried for 20 years. I guess we need to define what "walk away" means? To the Hebrews it meant go back under the Old Covenant, but I guess it could mean leave Gods will, or even His fellowship. But once we have been sealed with the "Holy Spirit of promise" upon faith in Christ, we can never walk away from salvation. It's because it's a work of God and it is completed the moment we believed the gospel. Only God knows if someone has believed or not. Our action in the flesh may or may not testify to it. Mine didn't for a long time and I wasted a lot of time. I got to the point that I was no longer sure of my salvation, but I was still saved whether I was sure of it or not because of HIS already completed work in me.

I haven't learned what everyone believes here yet, but I think we pretty much agree on most everything. Not trying to teach you anything, just showing my viewpoint of this.

Amen...The other thing is just what is fruit? It is the fruit of the spirit within us is love..etc.

Someone could have love or kindness or goodness but still struggle with a sin that other people would classify as not being a sign of having fruit. What they are really saying is " your fruit is not like my fruit" - so you are not going to heaven. This is Phariseeism at it's finest.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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The bible says there are those who were once enlightened, but left and can never return. You cannot leave someplace that you have never been to. And if someone leaves, you can't say they were never truly there to begin with.
To be enlightened does not mean you took the plunge. It just means the truth was made known to you, so you were enlightened to truth.

So no, that passage does not say one was saved, then lost it, It says they were enlightened to truth, then walked away without having excepted or trusted in it,

You always go wiht what you trust, You may try new things, but you will always return to what you trust

like a dog, he always returns to his vomit, Why? Because he is a dog..



(Denial ain't just a river in Egypt)
Pride always comes before the fall.. God will resist the proud.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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And from my experience, they don't go back to the pub or a needle. The majority walk away from Him into religion and try to make their flesh better. Carnal living from the "good" side of our flesh. Moral degeneracy,not immoral degeneracy.
Bingo.....this is when they have to "maintain" their salvation by doing deeds of righteousness. There are 2 sides of flesh..actually it's like Baskin Robbins with 31 flavors. Flesh comes in many flavors but it is still flesh - whether good flesh or the bad flesh.
 
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bikerchaz

Guest
Despite years of Bible study and talking to many people, I have not yet had anyone show me a verse that clearly says "once saved, always saved?" Is there such a verse in the Bible, or is the doctrine of eternal security a conclusion from study of Scriptural themes and principles?
Welcome to CC, This subject as a contentious one whether you want it or not, I am sorry about that. For those who question OSAS most will say that 'one is trying to earn one's way to the Kingdom' when nothing of the sort is said or implied.

I am not a big word user, I don't go in for Greek and Hebrew studies, I use the child intellect, and trust the Holy Spirit to show me where I am on the map of righteousness as it were. I do have a couple of concordances, a stong's for the KJV and a Zondinovan's for the NIV, I don't use them much any more.

I am also not overly educated so first second third or forth person doesn't mean much to me but I do understand what I read and I am not a stupid or foolish fellow. In this everything written about how God can protect us from loosing our salvation, eg "there is neither height nor depth etc nothing in all creation that can separate us from the love of God" is all ok but for me. I. Myself.

I have had it said that "there is nothing I can do to loose my salvation", I retorted with does that mean I can commit adultery or fornication etc, because that is what those words mean. No one, even the one who stated it has given me a strait answer, no one will and no one can. I understand that as long as I, me, myself, want to Hold on to Gods promise of life eternal, then nothing can take that away from me. In this I stand. I also think everyone will agree with this.

If I decide because of reasons to evil to think of that I would turn away from God and start mocking Him and resorting to abuse those he has chosen, causing others to fall away because of my actions and words, then the "mill stone" scenario would come into play.

I have heard it said "Am I supposed to account for every sin I commit?" as if one would have to keep a diary for sins committed in ones pocket so one could bring them to account afterwards.

It is my understanding that The Holy Spirit lives in us all the time, and we are convicted of wrong doing as we do it and we give thanks for the sacrifice of Jesus there and then, in that moment. In my heart this is a reflection of the sprinkle effect with the blood of the sacrificed offering being sprinkled by the high priest here and there as it were, horns of the alter etc etc.

I myself am not convinced that if I wanted to I could not turn away from God. I am convinced that because I do not want to, that my salvation is assured, and that nothing in all creation can remove me from that situation, because I do not want to be removed from that situation.

If I thought otherwise then I would have licence to act and behave as I will, to indulge the flesh, which is far from the truth. It is a subtle change but as far as I am concerned it is dangerous, not for me I can stand and I am assured, but for those whose faith is week, for those who are coming to grips with a new life in Christ.

There are also those who will say of the servants that they are not servants, the ones to whom Jesus says "depart from me I never knew you". They will say they can't be saved at the first or else they would still be saved. "From those who have been given, it shall be taken away, even the little they have" (paraphrase mine).

In putting in this post I am trying to welcome you to CC and bring you up to speed with the very large undercurrent of OSAS that exists here. I hope you are not put off, and I hope you will stay. I will not post on these threads any more, usually, but because you are new I could not let you open this box of snakes without a heads up.
 
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Mar 14, 2011
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That essentially encapsulates your Free Grace belief (not to be confused with the free gift of grace). A person believes one time (the right way) and is saved. That is salvation by nature (new birth), not by faith. IMO, this belief is indistinguishable from salvation by gnosis in which the divine spark within is awakened, and consequently can never perish.
No one is ever saved just because they believe. Why you keep thinking people say this is mind boggling.

They are saved because they trusted God, this may take weeks or months of the work of God to bring you to this point of total humility and repentance in order to fall on our faces.

But when it happens, Then you are saved forever.
 
May 21, 2016
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If our salvation was dependent on us and something we had to do then none would be saved. If it were possible for us to lose our salvation then we would all lose it. But Because it is God alone who has saved us we are secure and can not lose it. Those who fear they can lose their salvation have not been perfected in love.

Just a thought.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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We are born again from incorruptible seed - the word of God which is Jesus in us. Jesus said "I shall be in you and you shall be in Me"...the "divine spark" is the Lord Jesus Christ and His nature in us. We are a new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness in our new heart.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever
.

Without understanding the new birth in Christ - the new creation. Then all this being saved stuff will be a mystery to us and a complete blurr and thus we will have to "maintain" our salvation by what "we" do. This is anti-the gospel of the grace of Christ.

Remember there is a salvation for eternity and a saving of our temporal life while we are here on earth. Don't confuse the two.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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If our salvation was dependent on us and something we had to do then none would be saved. If it were possible for us to lose our salvation then we would all lose it. But Because it is God alone who has saved us we are secure and can not lose it. Those who fear they can lose their salvation have not been perfected in love.

Just a thought.

I think God gave mankind three choices.

1. Reject me altogether,,
2. Work hard to try to make yourself right with me,, But if your going to do it, here are my demands (the law) and your required to obey every letter from beginning to end..
3. Realize 1 and 2 will not work, so you have no hope. so repent, And receive the grace of God by faith in him.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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They will not live exactly the way they lived before.

You ever been chastened by God? I have, No matter how hard you try, if your born of God, You can;t do it.

If you can, I would question your salvation.
Why not? Believers at Corinth were living carnally, of the world. I've gone through seasons of my life where I was walking after the flesh and not after the Spirit. There were times that if you saw me, you would never believe I was saved, but I was. Was I convicted? Absolutely, but I never acted upon my convictions, instead, sunk deeper into the pleasures of this world.
 

PurerInHeart

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2016
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To be enlightened does not mean you took the plunge. It just means the truth was made known to you, so you were enlightened to truth.

So no, that passage does not say one was saved, then lost it, It says they were enlightened to truth, then walked away without having excepted or trusted in it,

You always go wiht what you trust, You may try new things, but you will always return to what you trust

like a dog, he always returns to his vomit, Why? Because he is a dog..





Pride always comes before the fall.. God will resist the proud.


No, the bible says he who does not have eyes to see and ears to here (stubbornness), they will not see or accept the plain truth right in front of them. I see it all the time on this sight. I feel like the boy in the movie the sixth sense, yet instead of saying, "I see dead people, they don't know they are dead." I say, "I see spiritually dead people, they don't know they are spiritually dead. They walk around like Christians, bending scriptures to mean what they want them to mean."




 

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