Is the Devil bound right now...?

valiant · May 25, 2016

that is simply untrue. it shows that you don't read many bible commentaries

Amillennialism is the correct interpretation of the Bible, as the majority of believers hold.

give me ONE example

LOL try Rev 6, the sixth seal. Rev14 . to name but two. if you deny it you are fighting the obvious to propagate a theory

garee · May 25, 2016

Linda70 said:

The book of Revelation in regard to without parable Christ spoke not to the multitude, hiding the spiritual meaning from one and revealing it to His elect. The use of metaphors holds especially true to the last chapter of the Bible, the book of the law.

Again its seems clear to me. In the book of Revelation.The word ‘‘revelation’’ in verse 1 of chapter 1 means ‘‘unveiling.’’ This verse of the Revelation also informs us that this unveiling was “signified” to John. It’s the nature of the whole book.

“Signified” ...signs as that seen, and wonders, the interpretation of that not seen in the parables.

Marvel not without parables Christ spoke not in the Book of revelation.

Bowman · May 25, 2016

abcdef said:

I would imagine that all of the demons have a host come Judgment Day...

Bowman · May 25, 2016

prove-all said:

[the beast] in this bible verse is not satan the dragon.
and this verse happens before satan is locked up for a 1000 years,

in rev 13 we see that the dragon[satan] gave the beast [a king over a kingdom]its power

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast:
and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast?
who is able to make war with him?

above[beast] is refering to the revived holy roman empire.
the greatest war making machine there was

the last ten kings[or toes] are given power for a short time frame,
with the beast as the leader ,power given them from satan.

this bible verse in no way says satan was reliesed for 60 minutes

The First Beast described in Rev 17 is most certainly Satan.

abcdef · May 25, 2016

Bowman said:

Just as a guess,

what part of the mill. do you think that we are in?

First part, middle, end?

Bowman · May 25, 2016

garee said:

So...

Only God has the power to cast-down Satan.

Tell that to the deniers on this thread who keep attempting to steal Jesus' divinity and pin it on a mere angel.

Bowman · May 25, 2016

abcdef said:

We have kept God's command and have filled the earth pretty well....and should be approaching the two myriads of myriads number of demons...but have not yet encountered the doomsday signals that the end is upon us...

Yourself?

Linda70 · May 25, 2016

valiant said:

It shows that amills read only commentaries of the amillennialists. I limit all my commentary reading to commentaries which are written by pre-mill dispensationalists.

Amillennialism is false and definitely NOT the correct interpretation of the Bible. Amillennialist doctrine is skewed and twisted and it has been proven throughout this thread. It is only the majority of "amillennial" believers whow hold to this false doctrine and spiritualized and allegorized interpretation of the Bible.

Forcing the amillenialist interpretation in the book of Revelation to teach the false doctrine of Satan being bound at the present and that we are now living in the Kingdom and Jesus is now reigning over this Kingdom.

Satan is NOT bound now and we are not living in the Kingdom now. Satan will be bound in the bottomless pit/abyss at the end of the LITERAL 1,000 year reign of Christ on this earth from Jerusalem. (Revelation 20:1-3) Satan will be loosed "for a short season" (this is NOT symbolic)......it means a literal short period of time. He (Satan) will lead a final rebellion and lose the battle of Gog and Magog and then he will be cast into the eternal lake of fire where the Antichrist and the false prophet were cast 1,000 years previous.

Revelation 6 has NOTHING to do with the second coming. The sixth seal is a judgment, not Christ coming back. Christ is the one who opens all the seals in heaven. Revelation 6 is the beginning of the tribulation period, not the second coming.

Revelation 14 has nothing to do with the second coming of Christ. Chapter 14 opens with the 144,000 (not a symbolic number) and proceeds to four climatic announcements:

1. The proclamation of the everlasting gospel preached by an angel. Revelation 14:6-7
2. The fall of Babylon, the source of all religious false teaching, from Nimrod to Antichrist. Revelation 14:8
3. The judgment of the lost. Revelation 14:9-11
4. The blessedness of the saved. Revelation 14:12-13

The entire chapter surveys the final states of blessing and judgment that are coming in the future. There is no mention of the second coming of Christ in Revelation 14....unless, of course, you interpret it spiritually and allegorically, which is the method of the amillennialists.

It is apparent who is fighting the obvious in order to propagate a theory. That theory being propagated (which is false) is amillenialism.

prove-all · May 25, 2016

Bowman said:

I let the bible interput the bible.

please supply a bible verse saying that the word beast means satan,'

again we see in rev that satan gives the beast its power, can not be the beast.

abcdef · May 25, 2016

Bowman said:

Brother Bowman,

I believe that we are at the very last few moments of the mill and this planet.

There are many signals, but I see things a little different than most people.

I believe that it is the end, but for slightly different reasons.
======================================

We agree that Rev is not linear in it's time line.

From our viewpoint, the placement of the divisions and the time line is everything.

====================================

Foe me the key signal of the end, (Fire from heaven), is the release of the dragon of seven heads, etc.

The dragon v2 is Rome, a nation.

He deceives Magog, the gentile nations

Who surround Jerusalem, presently.

Unto attacking Jerusalem, soon.

How soon? That is the Question.

It all depends on how you see the divisions in Rev.
====================================

You are right about the myriads of demons approaching,

but they are in men.

Right NOW in the middle east, they are there preparing their attack on Jerusalem.

Those people in the middle east who hate Israel, Iran, Isis, etc.

THEY HAVE THE DEMONS INSIDE THEM!

THEY ARE GOING TO ATTACK ISRAEL TO DESTROY THEM!

THEY ARE THE BEST EXAMPLE OF DEMON POSSESSION THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN!
========================================================

Rome will soon speak the words that deceive them, Rev 16:13-14.

You won't miss it, Iran will attack Israel afterwards.

That is how I see it.

Is it possible?

Ahwatukee · May 25, 2016

garee said:

Garee,

Scripture already demonstrates that it was to that generation of Israel that Jesus spoke in parables to and not to his disciples nor the church. Jesus spoke in parables to them (that generation of Israel) in fulfillment of a prophecy spoken against them as demonstrated below:

=====================================

The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

Notice the disciples said "why do you speak to the people in parables" not the disciples.

He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

The verse above is self explanatory, the knowledge of the kingdom of heaven was given to the disciples, which includes all believers in the church, but it hasn't been give to them, which would be that generation of Israel whom he was addressing referred to as "them."

Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’

But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

======================================

The above is pure conjecture and misapplication on your part, for scripture never says that "without parables Christ spoke not in the book of Revelation."There are many people who try to use the "Jesus only spoke in parables" spiel as a reason why we can't understand what the word of God is saying. Now it has been proven to you, again, that Jesus' speaking in parables was only for that generation of Israel and that as a fulfillment of the prophecy above. So please stop using this excuse as to why we can't understand what Jesus was saying. And please stop applying it to the book of Revelation, for the reason for the book of Revelation is made clear which is to "to show his servants what must soon take place."

The book of Revelation should be read in the literal sense unless a symbolic interpretation is obvious and not vise versa. Too many people make the error of reading Revelation as being all symbolic and thereby distort its meaning. When this happens, then we cannot know the information of "what must soon take place."

garee · May 25, 2016

Hi Awhatukee , thanks for the reply

I can see you are trying to make some difference between a unconvered jew and an unconverted gentle as if Christ was a respecter of person. All men must be born again.

The whole of scripture speaks to a multitude. It was never intended for one group of men whose outward flesh was Jewish The word of God was written and applies to the whole world regardless of nationality.

So yes scripture, God’s interpretation to us is self-explanatory, as it teaches us we abide in the Spirit of Christ as it abides in us. If any man has not the Spirit of Christ then neither do they belong to Him.

A disciple is a student of the teacher , in our case, Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God.. So yes the students of the teacher whether they were believers or not. They are called the multitude .The multitude is everyone that heard the word of God.

The believers are the ones who did mix faith(not seen) in what they did hear and received the spiritual understanding . It was given but not those disciples who walked away in unbelief, no faith.

John 6 uses many parables and provides a good understanding of the two kinds of disciples. The one we can look at is the parable of drinking the blood of Christ as to what it spiritually means to drink blood. Seeing to drink the literal blood is an abomination.

Many (not all of the disciples) therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?Many disciples were offended as a hard saying at the proposed interpretation of the parable Joh 6:60

When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from “the beginning “who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man(Jew or gentile) can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.Joh 6:61-68

The book of Proverbs is the book of Parables . The word “mashal” used for both English words is the same.

The Catholics who look to the literal meaning believe we are to drink the literal blood. Is that your understanding also? What does it mean spiritually to drink the blood of men? How do we eat and drink spiritually?

"

Neither does it say he spoke in parables in respect to any books alone. Did he say he spoke in parable in the book of Exodus or Genesis? Which books can we find parables? Do you have a list?

Your thoughts ?

Ahwatukee · May 25, 2016

Hello John,

We have not even entered into the millennial period and that because it follows the wrath of God, which are the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which themselves have yet to take place. God's wrath must be fulfilled first, followed by Christ's literal return to the earth to end the age as demonstrated in Rev.19:11-21.

Linear: progressing from one stage to another in a single series of steps; sequential

Linear is exactly what Revelation is, as it takes place in chronological order through three sets of seven judgments. The key to understanding the time-line of the events of Revelation is found in Rev.1:19 where Jesus told John to "write what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later." What is "Now" is represented by the letters to the churches, which also represents the entire church period i.e. "what is now" and which we are still in. The "what must take place later" begins in Rev.4:1 which is what takes place after "what is now" i.e. "after the church period."

The "what must place later" are the events of God's wrath which must take place upon this earth leading up to Christ's physical and visual return to the earth to end the age (Mt.24:30-31, Rev.1:7, 19:11-21). All that said, we could not possibly be living in the millennial period and that because Jesus has not returned. Regarding the Lord's return, remember that scripture states that "every eye shall see him" and we have no fulfillment of that even nor of the events of wrath that must take place prior to that.

The "fire from heaven" does not happen until the end of the millennial period which--as was pointed out previously--which has not yet begun. The fire from heaven that God rains down will be upon those people whom Satan gathers together after he has been released from the Abyss, which he has not been put into yet. If you would just follow Revelation in the order that it is written, then you would understand the order of events.

Rome is a city, not a nation. She is that great city that ruled over the kings of the earth that when he was receiving this information from the angel. she is that prostitute, that idolatrous city that sits on seven hills. Her liturgy are those who are dressed in purple and scarlet.

The above event will not take place until the end of the millennial period, which again has not yet begun, for the wrath of God and Jesus' literal return must take place first.

How soon? The building of the church will continue until Jesus descends and gather's his church, then that antichrist will be revealed making his seven year covenant with Israel, while at the same time God's wrath will begin to be poured out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. After the 7th bowl judgment has been poured out this will complete the wrath of God and then Jesus will return to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.

There is no myriads of demons approaching! There are however demons let loose from the Abyss upon the earth at the 5th trumpet to torment mankind with stings like that of a scorpion for five months. And also at the 6th trumpet where those four fallen angels and their army of 200 million will kill a third of the inhabitants of the earth. But again, all of the seals and trumpets 1 thru 4 must take place first, of which none of them have.

Rome does not speak the words of Rev.16:13-14. Just as the scripture states, those are demonic beings performing those miraculous signs and they will be going out into the whole earth to gather the nations to Har-Mageddon where they will make war against the Lamb as he is descending to the earth with his church following him riding on white horses and wearing fine linen, white and clean (Rev.19:11-21). Rome and her idolatrous religious system, will have been destroyed prior to when Jesus returns to end the age, so she won't be saying anything! Fallen, Fallen is Babylon the great! Her destruction will take place sometime during that last 3 1/2 years before Christ returns to the earth to end the age.

Ahwatukee · May 25, 2016

garee said:

Dude, you make no sense whatsoever! You don't even pay attention to what I wrote. You can't even comprehend that the parables where spoken to that generation of Israel, which the scripture makes very clear. The "them" in the scripture that Jesus is speaking in parables to, is that generation of Israel ONLY! As the scripture makes clear, that information was given to the disciples and all believers to understand. You're just speaking spiritual fluff and not comprehending the literal meaning of scripture!

Did you read the following?

"He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them."

The "you" in "has been give to you" are referring to the disciples and all believers. The "but not to them" refers to that generation of Israel that Jesus was speaking parables to. Do you understand the clear meaning of this? Stop spiritualizing things, it only distorts the word of God. And please stop misapplying scripture to other scriptures that are unrelated.

abcdef · May 25, 2016

Brother Ahwatukee,

It seems that we are missing a couple of posts on this thread.

Remember the post where you said that the woman of Rev 12 was Israel?

Not #2523.

I responded, but now both the post and response have disappeared?

Anybody else notice this?

Bowman · May 26, 2016

prove-all said:

Revelation 17

And one of the seven angels having the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying to me, Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot sitting on the many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the ones inhabiting the earth became drunk from the wine of her fornication.And he carried me away into a desert, by the Spirit. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast,filled with names of blasphemy, possessing seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and being gilded with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominations and unclean things of her fornication.And on her forehead was a name having been written: Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of the Harlots and of the Abominations of the Earth. And I saw the woman being drunk from the blood of the saints, and from the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. And I marveled, seeing her, with a great marveling. And the angel said to me, Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of thewoman, and of The Beast supporting her, the one possessing the seven heads and the ten horns. The Beast which you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss, and goes to perdition.And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, the ones whose names have not been written on the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, seeing The Beast, that it was a thing, and is not, yet will be.Here is the mind having wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains, where the woman sits on them. And the kings are seven. The five fell, and the one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he does come, he must remain a little.AndThe Beast which was, and is not,even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes to perdition.And the ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive authority as kings one hour with The Beast.These have one mind, and their power and authority they shall give up to The Beast.These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and the ones with Him are the called and elect and faithful ones. And he says to me, The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.And the ten horns which you saw andThe Beast, these will hate the harlot, and will make her desolated and naked. And they will eat her flesh, and will burn her down with fire.For God gave into their hearts to do His mind, and to act in one mind, and to give their kingdom to The Beast,until the Words of God shall be fulfilled.And the woman whom you saw is the city,the great, the having a kingdomoverthe kings of the earth.

Indicators that ‘The Beast’ of Rev 17 is Satan:

· The events described lead up to Judgment (Rev 17.1)
· Mankind (i.e. referred to as the woman, the great harlot, Babylon the great, the great city, etc) is stated to have been seated upon The Beast (17.3, 17.7)
· The Beast’s color is described as scarlet (Rev 17.3)
· The Beast that carried mankind was, and is not (because he is bound), and will come out of the abyss (future tense) and go to perdition (Rev 17.8, 17.11).
· The Beast is shown to be separate from the seven heads and the ten horns via the usage of articular nouns (Rev 17.7)
· Only The Beast is mentioned to have gone away and then to return in the future (Rev 17.8, 17.11)
· When The Beast comes out of the abyss, the ten horns will unite with him for a very short period of time (Rev 17.12 – 13)
· The Beast and his army wage war on The Lamb and His army – but the Lamb is victorious (Rev 17.14)

Bowman · May 26, 2016

abcdef said:

What is the infatuation with Rome?

abcdef · May 27, 2016

Bowman said:

Brother Bowman that is a good question.

We are trying to identify symbols and time lines.

You and I agree that we are in the mill. But where?

Satan is called the dragon in Rev 20:2,

This dragon is identified in Rev 12:3 as having 7 heads and 10 horns.

We are told in Rev 17, that the 7 heads are 7 hills, etc.

This says Rome.

It's this dragon, Rome, that reappears at the end of the mill to deceive the nations Magog.

Rome became a nation again in 1929, the sea beast reunited with the earth beast.

Rome has power over her "spiritual kingdom of darkness", but no military to destroy restored Israel.

That's why Rome speaks a lie Rev 16:13, that deceives the Kings of the East, this would be Magog, Iran and it's allies, the 200 million man army of the sixth trumpet.

Israel is restored, that's why they surround them, to destroy them.

this is beginning to happen right now.

This depends a great deal on where you place the divisions of the book of Rev.

Bowman · May 27, 2016

abcdef said:

Brother Bowman that is a good question.

We are trying to identify symbols and time lines.

You and I agree that we are in the mill. But where?

Satan is called the dragon in Rev 20:2,

This dragon is identified in Rev 12:3 as having 7 heads and 10 horns.

We are told in Rev 17, that the 7 heads are 7 hills, etc.

This says Rome.

It's this dragon, Rome, that reappears at the end of the mill to deceive the nations Magog.

Rome became a nation again in 1929, the sea beast reunited with the earth beast.

Rome has power over her "spiritual kingdom of darkness", but no military to destroy restored Israel.

That's why Rome speaks a lie Rev 16:13, that deceives the Kings of the East, this would be Magog, Iran and it's allies, the 200 million man army of the sixth trumpet.

Israel is restored, that's why they surround them, to destroy them.

this is beginning to happen right now.

This depends a great deal on where you place the divisions of the book of Rev.

The text does not warrant placing a name and date on the events.

Perhaps you can show your exegesis...

Dan_473 · May 27, 2016

abcdef said:

in your view, what happened in 1929? is it related to the vatican?

Is the Devil bound right now...?

Is Satan bound right now?

Yes

No

I don't know

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