Many still ask's, is Sin Serious?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#1
Many still ask this question: is Sin Serious?

When a disease has been diagnosed, or if someone in your family was rushed to hospital, naturally it’s important to ask the question: ‘Is it serious?’ there will be a sense of worry kicking in.

But if one asks that same question about the spiritual disease of Sin. Many people will almost cheerfully admit to being sinners, because they have no idea what this means. They treat it as being ‘just human nature’, or they shelter behind the fact that ‘everybody does it, so why can’t I?’ But those statements dodge the real issue: Is Sin Serious? Well here are some of the things the Bible says about you as a sinner.

1. You are debased: This does not mean that you are as bad as you can possibly be, or that you are constantly committing every sin. Nor does it mean that you cannot tell right from wrong, or do things that are pleasant and helpful. But it does mean that sin has invaded every part of your nature and personality – your mind, your will, your affections, conscience, your disposition and your imagination. The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. The root of your trouble is not what you do but what you are! You sin because you are a sinner, that’s fact and there is now way around it.

2. You are defiled: The Bible pulls no punches here: From within, out of men’s heart, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. Notice that the list includes thoughts, words and actions. This shows that in God’s sight all sin is equally serious. Some people even limit their idea of sin to things like murder, adultery and robbery, but the Bible makes it clear that we have no right to think of sin in this way. Sin is anything that fails to meet God’s perfect standards. Anything we say, think or do that is less perfect is sin. Now face up to this question: Who can say, ‘I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin’? Can you? Be honest about that question? If not, you are defiled.

3. You are defiant: the Bible teaches that sin is lawlessness, deliberate rebellion against God’s authority and law. No civil law forces you to lie, cheat, have impure thoughts, or sin in any other way. You choose to sin. It’s as simple but serious as that. You are the one who chooses to break God’s Holy law. You deliberately disobeyed him and that my friends, is serious, so yes Sin is serious, because God is a righteous judge who expresses his wrath every day. God can never be ‘soft’ about sin, and you can be sure that not even one sin will go unpunished. Some small part of God’s punishment of sin comes in this life (though we may not recognize it). But the final punishment will be inflicted after death, when on the day of judgement each one of us will give account of himself or herself to God.

So let’s re-ask this same question again, ‘Is Sin serious?’ what does your heart tell you now? What does your thought tell you now? What do your Words say about it now? And most importantly, what does your action tell you now?

"Some text taken from John Blanchard booklets."
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#2
Sin is destructive on many fronts. It distorts our perception of God, other people and ourselves.

Sin will destroy us and those we love and is a bad witness for the Lord. Sin is deceitful and deceives us from seeing what is healthy and true life.

Thank God, Jesus took our sin away and we can now life free from it as we walk by the new creation in us in Christ. Walk by the spirit and we will not fulfill "it's" desires. Thank you Lord!
 
R

Richie_2uk

Guest
#3
Sin is destructive on many fronts. It distorts our perception of God, other people and ourselves.

Sin will destroy us and those we love and is a bad witness for the Lord. Sin is deceitful and deceives us from seeing what is healthy and true life.

Thank God, Jesus took our sin away and we can now life free from it as we walk by the new creation in us in Christ. Walk by the spirit and we will not fulfill "it's" desires. Thank you Lord!
Yes Thank you Father, for sending your Son Jesus to pay for our Sin. So that we all may be saved. Most Sin comes from the Devils influences, but we carry them out on behalf of the devil. So who is getting the big laugh? We all need to come to a point, and face the devil and say 'NO' no more fooling me, no more deceiving me, no more influencing me, and no more enticing me. We can all do it. But do with God's strength, and with God's backing, and with God's Word.
 
May 19, 2016
417
2
0
#4
Hello Friends....


Let's all remember what "SIN" is....

Sin is violation of Torah (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4).

So, should we sin? No. (Rom. 6:15).

This means we should NOT disobey Torah.

This means we should OBEY Torah.

It follows that we who eat pork are sinning...(Lev. 11)

So let's stop doing that....so that we can be pleasing to our Father, and to His Son Yeshua, who teaches us to obey the commands of the Torah.

blessings...
Bibleguy
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#5
Hello Friends....


Let's all remember what "SIN" is....

Sin is violation of Torah (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4).

So, should we sin? No. (Rom. 6:15).

This means we should NOT disobey Torah.

This means we should OBEY Torah.

It follows that we who eat pork are sinning...(Lev. 11)

So let's stop doing that....so that we can be pleasing to our Father, and to His Son Yeshua, who teaches us to obey the commands of the Torah.

blessings...
Bibleguy
You can't keep one law and not all the others.....because we should be stoning people for all kinds of things that they do....like approaching the presence of God ( Ex. 19:12-13 ) adultery ...idolatry...etc.


it's best to come out of the Old Covenant and into the New Covenant. The Old one is obsolete and is a goner! Jesus is High Priest now of a new and living way
.
 
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
0
#6
Hello Friends....


Let's all remember what "SIN" is....

Sin is violation of Torah (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4).

So, should we sin? No. (Rom. 6:15).

This means we should NOT disobey Torah.

This means we should OBEY Torah.

It follows that we who eat pork are sinning...(Lev. 11)

So let's stop doing that....so that we can be pleasing to our Father, and to His Son Yeshua, who teaches us to obey the commands of the Torah.

blessings...
Bibleguy
It is spiritual now,and not a physical covenant.People in the Old Testament were fleshy,and could not have the Spirit like today,so God had them do physical ordinances,and physical laws,until Christ came.

1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

We can eat whatever meat we want to eat in the New Testament,because it is now a spiritual covenant,and not a physical covenant,and the only law we have to obey is love,for love is the fulfilling of the law.
 
Feb 11, 2016
2,501
40
0
#7
Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink;
but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Romans 14:18
For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God,
and approved of men.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
#8
Hello Friends....


Let's all remember what "SIN" is....

Sin is violation of Torah (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4).

So, should we sin? No. (Rom. 6:15).

This means we should NOT disobey Torah.

This means we should OBEY Torah.

It follows that we who eat pork are sinning...(Lev. 11)

So let's stop doing that....so that we can be pleasing to our Father, and to His Son Yeshua, who teaches us to obey the commands of the Torah.

blessings...
Bibleguy
Oh boy . . .

-JGIG
 
R

redeemed2014

Guest
#9
Hello Friends....


Let's all remember what "SIN" is....

Sin is violation of Torah (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4).

So, should we sin? No. (Rom. 6:15).

This means we should NOT disobey Torah.

This means we should OBEY Torah.

It follows that we who eat pork are sinning...(Lev. 11)

So let's stop doing that....so that we can be pleasing to our Father, and to His Son Yeshua, who teaches us to obey the commands of the Torah.

blessings...
Bibleguy
If you are following the Torah, shouldn't you be finding a lamb or goat without blemish to sacrifice at the tabernacle which no longer stands.

Luckily for you though the veil was ripped in twain so you can go directly in the most holy place, you can thank the Lord Jesus Christ for that. But finding a Levite priest may be a little harder.

I'm sorry if that is coming off harsh, but the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the law (Torah). Not you, me, or anybody else can take the nails out of the Lord Jesus Christ's hands. To please the Father you must believe and have a true faith in the Lord Jesus Christ's death, burial, and Resurrection. Works will manifest after a true belief and faith, you will fulfill the law through love because of the Lord Jesus Christs sacrifice and the holy Spirit working through you.

God Bless
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#10
Good points made by all. But we're excluding one variable - the flesh. Even when it's not being plied by satan and his minions, it's still flesh - defiant and opposed to God. That's what the old covenant was about - subduing the flesh through corporal means... which proves to be quite ineffective. Under the new, we are trying to subdue the flesh thru spiritual means. That's a better way, and ultimately the only way. But here and now, we still have flesh to subdue.

Sin has to do with the actions of the flesh that are contrary to God's will. The difference is that BC we tried to control our actions thru physical means. Now we try to control them thru spiritual means. Either way, losing that control makes us contrary to God. Sin is serious, both BC and AD.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
4,030
1,319
113
Australia
#11
Hello Friends....


Let's all remember what "SIN" is....

Sin is violation of Torah (Rom. 3:20; 7:7; 1 Jn. 3:4).

So, should we sin? No. (Rom. 6:15).

This means we should NOT disobey Torah.

This means we should OBEY Torah.

It follows that we who eat pork are sinning...(Lev. 11)

So let's stop doing that....so that we can be pleasing to our Father, and to His Son Yeshua, who teaches us to obey the commands of the Torah.

blessings...
Bibleguy
The debate about the law (Torah) and the old and new covenants have been talked about in many other threads,
But where do you draw the line, How do you draw the line about what parts of the law (Torah) are valid today.

Jesus is the Answer
 
May 19, 2016
417
2
0
#12
Hello all...

Some Scriptural thoughts for you all in response to your recent posts...

Grace777x70 wrote: “You can't keep one law and not all the others.....because we should be stoning people for all kinds of things that they do....like approaching the presence of God ( Ex. 19:12-13 ) adultery ...idolatry...etc.

My response: No. The context of Ex. 19:12-13 clearly confirms that the stoning command, there, had an immediate direct application to that particular historical event.

And, the other Torah stoning laws are not presently observable because we do not presently have Torah-obedient governments in place. But Moses assures us that ALL Torah will again be obeyed AFTER we return to the land (Dt. 30:1-8).

Thus, we CAN keep some laws but not others. Moses PROPHESIED that this would be the case (Dt. 30:1-8) until our diaspora finally ends.

Grace777x70 wrote: “it's best to come out of the Old Covenant and into the New Covenant. The Old one is obsolete and is a goner! Jesus is High Priest now of a new and living way.”

My response: No. Heb. 8:13 says the Old Covenant is READY (Gr. “engoos”) to pass away, thereby confirming that it had NOT yet passed away as of the New-Covenant-era time of the writing of the book of Hebrews.

AND, Torah passes directly into the New Covenant (Jer. 31:33)…so let’s obey the Torah!

===================================

Mpaper345 wrote: “It is spiritual now,and not a physical covenant.”

My response: No. The Torah IS spiritual (Rom. 7:14).

Mpaper345 wrote: “People in the Old Testament were fleshy,and could not have the Spirit like today,so God had them do physical ordinances,and physical laws,until Christ came.”

My response: No. The ordinances and physical laws remain in force! We live by faith (Gr. “pistis”, Gal. 3:11) which is Heb. “emunah” (Hab. 2:4), and the ways of this “emunah” by which we live include the ordinances and judgments of Torah (see “emunah” in Ps. 119:30,86,138).

Mpaper345 quoted 1 Ti. 4:3-5. But the word of God and prayer function to consecrate our food (1 Ti. 4:1-5; Lev. 11; Dt. 14). The Torah is the word of God (Dt. 5:27-33; Mk. 7:9-13). So, the Torah and prayer consecrate our food. Christians should, therefore, obey the Torah (including the Torah dietary instructions in Lev. 11 and Dt. 14) so that their food may be properly and prayerfully consecrated.

Mpaper345 quoted Col. 2:14-17. But this merely states that the CERTIFICATE OF DEBT was cancelled…not the law itself. Remember, Paul told us to keep God’s commands (1 Cor. 7:19), NOT pretend that they are cancelled. Where are God’s commands found? The written Torah of Moses! (1 Ki. 2:3).

Mpaper wrote: “We can eat whatever meat we want to eat in the New Testament,because it is now a spiritual covenant,and not a physical covenant,and the only law we have to obey is love,for love is the fulfilling of the law.”

My response: No! Love fulfills the law because it requires OBEDIENCE to the law! That’s why Jesus applies Dt. 6 to you (Mt. 22:37). And HOW do we express this love for God? Through obedience to all the commands of Torah (Dt. 6:25), just as Jesus commanded.

Even in the future, God will be VERY angry at pork-eaters (Is. 66:17). So, it’s no surprise that Peter APPLIES Lev. 11 to us (1 Pe. 1:15-16).

===================================

Pilgrimpassingthru quoted Rom. 14:17-18. But this does not give license to reject Torah dietary food laws. Why? Because that’s NOT the issue addressed in Rom. 14. After all, there is NO Torah law that says we should eat only vegetables (Rom. 14:1). Therefore, Paul is NOT addressing the question of whether Torah dietary laws are in force.

Besides, Paul already told us to NOT sin (Rom. 6:15), meaning NOT disobey Torah (Rom. 3:20;7:7), meaning Paul taught Torah-obedience!

===================================

Redeemed2014 wrote: If you are following the Torah, shouldn't you be finding a lamb or goat without blemish to sacrifice at the tabernacle which no longer stands.

My response: In our present diaspora, not all Torah laws are presently observable. Moses prophesied that ALL Torah laws will again be observed by us in the future, however (Dt. 30:1-8).

The following passages ALSO guarantee restoration of sacrificial/Levitical Torah (Zec. 14:16-21; Jer. 33:20-22; Eze. 40-47; Is. 66:21-22; Mal. 3).

Redeemed2014 wrote: Luckily for you though the veil was ripped in twain so you can go directly in the most holy place, you can thank the Lord Jesus Christ for that. But finding a Levite priest may be a little harder.

My response: Of course it’s not presently observed in the diaspora…but this is only a temporary limitation upon our capacity to obey Torah. AND, it’s NOT an excuse to disobey Torah portions which ARE presently observable.

Redeemed2014 wrote: I'm sorry if that is coming off harsh, but the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the law (Torah). Not you, me, or anybody else can take the nails out of the Lord Jesus Christ's hands. To please the Father you must believe and have a true faith in the Lord Jesus Christ's death, burial, and Resurrection. Works will manifest after a true belief and faith, you will fulfill the law through love because of the Lord Jesus Christs sacrifice and the holy Spirit working through you.

My response: Jesus fulfilled the Torah (Mt. 5:17), but did NOT abolish it (Mt. 5:17)…thus it is STILL in force!
Torah passes away only AFTER heaven/earth pass away (Mt. 5:18). That hasn’t happened yet.

Our Torah-teaching and Torah-obedience determines our position in the coming kingdom (Mt. 5:19).

Our Torah-obedient works of righteousness must EXCEED that of the Pharisees (Mt. 5:20).

The New Covenant (inaugurated by Jesus) consists of Torah (Jer. 31:33) written upon our hearts. And, such Torah should be obeyed (Dt. 30:14), not ignored!

No one needs to take nails out of the Lord Jesus Christ’s hands.

And, Yes! We agree that we “fulfill the law through love..”

BUT, how is this love for God to be expressed? Mt. 22:37 applies Dt. 6 to you!

Thus, we love God in obedience to Torah commands (Dt. 6:25)…just as Jesus commanded that we so love.

===================================

RickyZ wrote: “That's what the old covenant was about - subduing the flesh through corporal means... which proves to be quite ineffective.”

No…it’s only ineffective without proper faith.

David obeyed Torah in faith, and David was found righteous in God’s sight.

Moses obeyed Torah in faith, and Moses was found righteous in God’s sight.

Zacharias and Elizabeth were also righteous in obedience to the law (Lk. 1:5-6).

Moreover, the Torah of the Old Covenant passes directly into the New Covenant (Jer. 31:33)…so let’s stop thinking that Torah somehow does not apply anymore.

===================================

TMS wrote: “The debate about the law (Torah) and the old and new covenants have been talked about in many other threads, But where do you draw the line, How do you draw the line about what parts of the law (Torah) are valid today. Jesus is the Answer.”

My response: Great question…this question immediately refutes the lawlessness widely upheld by many religious people.

Answer: Grow in faithful obedience to as much Torah as is presently possible to properly obey, for this is HOW we express our love for God (1 Jn. 5:3; Dt. 6:4-25).
Jesus is the answer! Jesus tells us to obey Torah so as to achieve a great position in the coming kingdom (Mt. 5:19).

Ok….let’s not sin...let's obey!

Just as the Father, Son, Spirit, Torah, Prophets, Psalms, Proverbs, Apostles, and Epistles have commanded us to do.

Blessings…
BibleGuy
 
Last edited:
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#13
You can't pick on law over another one. That is watering down the law and it is just what Jesus chastised the Pharisees about.

The Old Covenant is obsolete and is a goner! Step into the New Covenant where everything in the law was a mere shadow of the real thing - which is Christ - He is the real substance.

James 2:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
63
#14
Hi BibleGuy,

Welcome to CC :).

I have a question for you:


  • Who is the current, Permanent, Perfect High Priest, appointed by an oath from God, according to Scripture?


-JGIG
 
P

PurerInHeart

Guest
#15
This goes along with how much someone fears to sin against God. Godly fear keeps you from sinning, cause His wrath will be mighty. It's best to get on His good side and obey Him now, He's given us the opportunity to escape His coming wrath. But those who sin willfully, well I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#16
Hello all...

Some Scriptural thoughts for you all in response to your recent posts...


RickyZ wrote: “That's what the old covenant was about - subduing the flesh through corporal means... which proves to be quite ineffective.”

No…it’s only ineffective without proper faith.

David obeyed Torah in faith, and David was found righteous in God’s sight.

Moses obeyed Torah in faith, and Moses was found righteous in God’s sight.

Zacharias and Elizabeth were also righteous in obedience to the law (Lk. 1:5-6).

Moreover, the Torah of the Old Covenant passes directly into the New Covenant (Jer. 31:33)…so let’s stop thinking that Torah somehow does not apply anymore.


Blessings…
BibleGuy
David was found righteous because of his faith, that's true. But he also committed lust, adultery, and murder, all of which are sins in God's eyes according to the Torah. Even someone as 'holy' as David found the law to be ineffective against controlling his sinful flesh.

And the Torah does indeed apply today. The difference is before it applied externally, now it is applied internally thru the Holy Spirit.
 
May 19, 2016
417
2
0
#17
You can't pick on law over another one. That is watering down the law and it is just what Jesus chastised the Pharisees about.

The Old Covenant is obsolete and is a goner! Step into the New Covenant where everything in the law was a mere shadow of the real thing - which is Christ - He is the real substance.

James 2:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
Hello,

You wrote: "You can't pick one law over another one. That is watering down the law and it is just what Jesus chastised the Pharisees about."

My response: Wrong. During the Babylonian captivity, should the Israelites have rejected ALL Torah?

Of course not...they should have obeyed to the extent possible in that present diaspora.

Likewise, Moses PROPHESIED that we would return to YHVH (which implies "obey Torah"), but Moses also prophesied that complete obedience again to ALL Torah commands would not occur until our diaspora ends (Dt. 30:1-8). We still await fulfillment of this prophecy.

The point? You can still obey Torah (to the extent possible in this present diaspora), even though it's not 100% observable presently.

So, you are wrong to claim "You can't pick one law over another one."

And, I'm not arbitrarily picking-and-choosing. Rather, I'm advocating what Scripture requires: Obey as much as you presently can!

Now, regarding Pharisees...why was Jesus angry at them in Mark 7?

Was it because they obeyed? or because they disobeyed?

Go read it. He was angry because they did NOT obey God's commands (Mk. 7:8).

Thus, Jesus DESIRES obedience to Torah, not disobedience!

So let's stop disobeying, ok?

Let's stop pretending that it does not apply. Ok?

Remember, Jesus was angry at the religious leaders in Mt. 23....but He was not angry because they obeyed the law! He was angry because they chose not to obey portions of the law that were observable at that time. (Mt. 23:23).

Likewise, we should obey all portions of Torah that are presently observable.

So, do you obey (or disobey) Lev. 18:23?

If obey, then Torah is still in force!

If disobey, then we've definitely got some problems here...

blessings...
Bibleguy

PS The Torah is NOT a "goner"! I've told you about three times now...Heb. 8:13 confirms that the Old Covenant was READY (Gr. "engoos") to pass away as of the New-Covenant-era time of the writing of the book of Hebrews, thereby confirming that Old Covenant AND New Covenant function simultaneously.

Why do you refuse (about three times, now) to address this Scriptural fact which disconfirms the claim you are repeatedly posting?
 
May 19, 2016
417
2
0
#18
Hi BibleGuy,

Welcome to CC :).

I have a question for you:


  • Who is the current, Permanent, Perfect High Priest, appointed by an oath from God, according to Scripture?


-JGIG
Hello JGIG,

Of course Jesus is the High Priest...of the order of Melchizedek.

Now, a question for you!

Where do the prophets GUARANTEE restoration of the Levitical/sacrificial/ceremonial priesthood?

Ok...I can't resist...I'll tell you! Dt. 30:1-8; Zec. 14:16-21; Mal. 3; Is. 66:21-22; Jer. 33:17-21; Eze. 40-47.

Ready or not....the sacrifices are coming back, baby!

It will be AWESOME to serve YHVH in greater fullness when these prophecies come to pass!

For then, we will also receive our inheritance in the land, as coheirs of the inheritance given to Abraham.

The kingdom WILL be restored to Israel once again.

Exciting times...

blessings...
BibleGuy
 
May 19, 2016
417
2
0
#19
David was found righteous because of his faith, that's true. But he also committed lust, adultery, and murder, all of which are sins in God's eyes according to the Torah. Even someone as 'holy' as David found the law to be ineffective against controlling his sinful flesh.

And the Torah does indeed apply today. The difference is before it applied externally, now it is applied internally thru the Holy Spirit.

Hey there RickyZ,

Thanks for your comments...

You wrote: "...before it [Torah] applied externally, now it is applied internally..."

My response: No. Proper Torah-obedience has ALWAYS been internal, from the heart (Dt. 30:14).

And, Paul says that this faithful Torah-obedience IS the word of faith which he preached (Dt. 30:14 cited in Rom. 10:8).

So, it has ALWAYS been properly applied in one's heart...it's just that most Israelites tended to be hard-hearted and stiff-necked...so their Torah-observance was all wrong, unless accompanied by proper faithful acceptance of God, His word, and His promises.

Remember, when Paul talks about circumcision of the heart, he also states that GENTILES who properly obey Torah are viewed as having been circumcised in heart (Rom. 2:26).

Paul didn't just randomly invent this concept...

It's inspired by Dt. 10:16; Dt. 30:6; and Jer. 4:4....ALL of which confirm that a circumcised heart OBEYS Torah, just as Paul expects Gentiles to properly obey Torah with circumcised hearts in Rom. 2:26.

blessings...
BibleGuy
 
R

redeemed2014

Guest
#20
Hey there RickyZ,

Thanks for your comments...

You wrote: "...before it [Torah] applied externally, now it is applied internally..."

My response: No. Proper Torah-obedience has ALWAYS been internal, from the heart (Dt. 30:14).

And, Paul says that this faithful Torah-obedience IS the word of faith which he preached (Dt. 30:14 cited in Rom. 10:8).

So, it has ALWAYS been properly applied in one's heart...it's just that most Israelites tended to be hard-hearted and stiff-necked...so their Torah-observance was all wrong, unless accompanied by proper faithful acceptance of God, His word, and His promises.

Remember, when Paul talks about circumcision of the heart, he also states that GENTILES who properly obey Torah are viewed as having been circumcised in heart (Rom. 2:26).

Paul didn't just randomly invent this concept...

It's inspired by Dt. 10:16; Dt. 30:6; and Jer. 4:4....ALL of which confirm that a circumcised heart OBEYS Torah, just as Paul expects Gentiles to properly obey Torah with circumcised hearts in Rom. 2:26.

blessings...
BibleGuy
Have you read Romans 10:8?


  • Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Where do you get that it is faith to the Torah? If you keep reading you will see


  • Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Verse 9 tells us that the word of faith which he preached was if you confess the Lord Jesus and believe in the death, burial, and Resurrection you WILL be saved. Not be circumcised, obey the Sabbath, etc. and be saved.


  • Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Also Romans 2:26 the context of the verses is that the Jew knowing the law is only condemned by the law, Romans 2:1 the first word is therefore. So it is a continuation of Romans Chapter 1 which is telling the gentiles that they also are sinners because of the law.

Read Romans 3:21-31 a very important verse in that is verse 28.


  • Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Grace does not give us a license to sin, Gods heart does not change, the law was only to condemn us of sin. If you are doing 45 miles per hour down a road you are not a law breaker, unless there is a speed limit sign that says 30 miles per hour. But if a police officer is giving you a 15 mile per hour GRACE you are still a law breaker but you will not be punished for it. Much like the Lord Jesus Christ's imputed grace saves us even though we are law breakers.