Have the New Testament Charismatic gifts ceased?

[RickyZ]

I do not think that to be true either that is an assumption. If it is bonafide as stated then it cannot be challenged even if it is not accepted. Jesus said that in JOhn 9 or 11 . when one doesn't accept the work of God and speaks out of an unlearned mind then it is opinionated, and should not draw immediately it is suggesting the work of satan .

I did caveat that it is an implication, not an outright accusal. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..?

 

[ember]

exactly - I have seen fire walking and even suspended animation - wincam

sorry

what point are you making again?

 

[RobbyEarl]

I agree

The Bible states that the 'letter' kills, but the Spirit gives life...the Holy Spirit makes the Word come alive

ok...and not just cause you are a mod...but I firmly firmly go by 'no one comes to God unless the Spirit draws him' yup

yes...faith in action is belief

good!

Wincam is a moderator, wow.

 

[wincam]

We need the Holy Spirit today, God doesn't change, if they needed Him then we sure need him now, in fact you truly cannot understand the bible without the Holy Spirit. He who has eyes to see and and ears to hear, let them see and hear.

it matters not a hoot what you think or I think it only matters what God says - so if we need the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible why is there so much misunderstanding claiming to be inspired by the Holy Spirit - this is blasphemy - wincam

 

[CS1]

I did caveat that it is an implication, not an outright accusal. But if it walks like a duck and quacks

like a duck..?

yes I believe you did(caveat) . I think some do however assume it bo so .

 

[CS1]

it matters not a hoot what you think or I think it only matters what God says - so if we need the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible why is there so much misunderstanding claiming to be inspired by the Holy Spirit - this is blasphemy - wincam

lol
I think not could you answer my question wincam I did clarify for you as you have asked John 14:1 ?

 

[RickyZ]

it is denied as a bonafide gift - see Jn.14:17/1Cor.2:14/13:8 - wncam

John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well

Hmmm... curious passage. Does that mean we know the Holy Spirit as well?

1 Corinthians 2:14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

Even more interesting. Seems to say that if you do not recognize bonafide gifts, you do not have the Holy Spirit in you. Roger are you listening?

1 Corinthians 13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

Not sure where this plays in, as none of the gifts have ceased..?

 

[RickyZ]

where does it say that - in fact it says exactly the opposite at Jn.14:17 - the Apostles and early Christians needed the Holy Spirit because they did not have the Bible as we do - wincam

Ooooh, ok that's where you are coming from.

Question - did God give us gifts to prove Himself to us? Or as a counter to the things we lost in the fall?

Is not the purpose of the Christ/Messiah to restore what was lost in the fall?

Have all of those things been restored? If not then perfection has not come.

 

[wincam]

I did caveat that it is an implication, not an outright accusal. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck..?

it seems you must finish up with duck quack - wincam

 

[RickyZ]

Nothing has ceased, the only thing that has ceased is faith and belief. People are still being healed and are still being filled with The Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, Miracles are still happening, the dead being raised is still happening and not by means of the devil but by the power of the Holy Ghost and by the means of the cross.

Exactly, except I would say that faith and belief are being denied by some, not ceased altogether.

 

[RickyZ]

Tongues = not speaking but hearing in foreign languages was a genuine gift but gibberish is rubbish and the Holy Spirit must not be credited with speaking rubbish or confusion = this is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit - wincam

Tongues with interpretation are a form of prophecy. That is different from the tongue without interpretation that is used privately. 1 Cor 14 is Paul's convoluted attempt to explain that.

 

[RickyZ]

it matters not a hoot what you think or I think it only matters what God says - so if we need the Holy Spirit to understand the Bible why is there so much misunderstanding claiming to be inspired by the Holy Spirit - this is blasphemy - wincam

Because obviously many are placing themselves in the 1 Cor 14 camp.

 

[RickyZ]

it seems you must finish up with duck quack - wincam

Sometimes this debate makes me quack up

 

[wincam]

Ooooh, ok that's where you are coming from.

Question - did God give us gifts to prove Himself to us? Or as a counter to the things we lost in the fall?

Is not the purpose of the Christ/Messiah to restore what was lost in the fall?

Have all of those things been restored? If not then perfection has not come.

in an instant on the last day - 1Cor.15:52 - wincam

 

[RickyZ]

in an instant on the last day - 1Cor.15:52 - wincam

Exactly. Perfection comes when Christ returns and sets the world straight!

(I can only imaging the AHA! moment we will all share when that happens)

 

[wincam]

thank you for correcting me wincam let me try again if you like we can go over John 14 and 16 the chapter s

the question I asked you is in john 14:1 is this verse only to the Apostles or to all believers .

it cannot be taken in isolation but becomes clear a bit further along at 5 and 8 - this is exactly where many go wrong and apply to themselves what does not apply to them like 'a brood of vipers or whited sepulchres' etc - wincam

 

[CS1]

it cannot be taken in isolation but becomes clear a bit further along at 5 and 8 - this is exactly where many go wrong and apply to themselves what does not apply to them like 'a brood of vipers or whited sepulchres' etc - wincam

ok but you did not answer my question about verse 1 and verse 5 is Thomas asking Jesus so the context of verse 1, 2, 3, and 4 can be applied to us today as verse 5 contextual understanding is Jesus answering verse 5 in verse 6 which again I ask you does this apply to all believers.

 

[CS1]

it cannot be taken in isolation but becomes clear a bit further along at 5 and 8 - this is exactly where many go wrong and apply to themselves what does not apply to them like 'a brood of vipers or whited sepulchres' etc - wincam

Isolation? no how about context to the whole chapter?

 

[wincam]

Isolation? no how about context to the whole chapter?

Yes - so why not - Jn,14:17 applies to us and the rest of the chapter to the Apostles imho - wincam

 

[CS1]

Yes - so why not - Jn,14:17 applies to us and the rest of the chapter to the Apostles imho - wincam

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

verse 17: the context is contrast between the Believer and the "world" which refers to the unsaved.
No verse 17 does not apply to the Apostles nor the believer today because they have the Spirit of God as verse 18 points out " I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.".

And if Verse 1 does in fact apply to us today then it is clear so Does the Holy Spirit .