Have the New Testament Charismatic gifts ceased?

[notuptome]

1 Tim 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[miknik5]

I did read what Paul said and his one concern wAs ever and always order in the church and all things done for the common good of all the members of christ's body

 

[ember]

1 Tim 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

and this is your response to Christians?

who are filled with the Holy Spirit?

we are hypocrites who speak lies?

according to your understanding, the truth is revealed and according to your rejection of that same truth, we have the very unedifying summation of your belief

 

[miknik5]

1 Tim 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

And isn't that the key?
They depart from HIM..."go out" from HIM..."progress above" the DOCTRINE of CHRIST and by what they say and do are made manifest that they did indeed "Go out"?

 

[notuptome]

And isn't that the key?
They depart from HIM..."go out" from HIM..."progress above" the DOCTRINE of CHRIST and by what they say and do are made manifest that they did indeed "Go out"?

It means that they define Christ to suit themselves and reject the Christ of the bible.

Purity goes out the window. Holiness goes out the window. Enter diverse doctrines of losing salvation, water baptism essential to salvation. Enter worldly music and casual attire. Give up the necessity to separate from worldliness and unclean associations.

Place self will above the will of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

why do you assume that prophesy must be the way you do it? Martin Luther (and many others) were 'prophets'.

A biblical prophet is one that declares the word of God.Not their own word as there own thoughts. A false prophets adds his own thoughts and calls it prophecy. God is no longer bringing new prophecy .He put a seal at the end of the now perfect word of prophecy, scripture, and a warning not to add to it or take away from it.

All Christians as a kingdom of priest are considered prophets and apostles (sent ones). The great commission is still in effect. God is still sending out his apostles with His existing prophecy the gospel of our salvation..

 

[notuptome]

and this is your response to Christians?

who are filled with the Holy Spirit?

we are hypocrites who speak lies?

according to your understanding, the truth is revealed and according to your rejection of that same truth, we have the very unedifying summation of your belief

Since the verses do not describe Christians why would you apply it to yourself?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[miknik5]

A biblical prophet is one that declares the word of God.Not their own word as there own thoughts. A false prophets adds his own thoughts and calls it prophecy. God is no longer bringing new prophecy .He put a seal at the end of the now perfect word of prophecy, scripture, and a warning not to add to it or take away from it.

All Christians as a kingdom of priest are considered prophets and apostles (sent ones). The great commission is still in effect. God is still sending out his apostles with His existing prophecy the gospel of our salvation..

No more prophets in that there is no more foretelling, nothing needs to be added to the Story of mankind's salvation in, by and through THE SON...and any man who adds more to the Story of Mankind's salvation in, by and through THE SON does not even understand the Story of Mankind's salvation in, by and through THE SON and HIM alone...

No more prophets but today only witnesses...witnesses who testify of HIM and hold to THE TESTIMONY of JESUS...

I agree with you...

 

[ember]

Since the verses do not describe Christians why would you apply it to yourself?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

now now

turnaround is not fair play here

we all know how you applied that verse...considering your belief that those who speak in tongues have demon

really getting a tad childish here Roger...

 

[garee]

Nope,nope,nope

Experience is a hands on dynamic of a walk with a REAL LIVE SAVIOR,GOD,AND FRIEND.

AND that experience is validated by the word.

Experience comes before the word.

Hope beyond human hope to the unseen eternal... hope, hope,hope.

Our experiences are validated by the word as you said the first time. It can’t be both ways as if we could serve two masters..

Anyone can get saved (experience) with NO BIBLE WITHIN A THOUSAND MILES.

I got saved with no bible,and don't know if any of my friends did either.

The bible does not need to be in ones hand to be saved. it is just that we cannot know him without it. It is not an idol by which we summon God to come down and commune with us.

The Bible as the perfect law of God which does quicken our souls, giving us simply one His understanding .

Without that law, in the book of His law (Bible) no man could understand God and therefore have the God given ability to search him out. The living word, His written witness that he has spoken determines whether or not a person has heard the word of God and believed to the salvation of their soul..No law no salvation.

Romans 2:12 For as many “as have sinned” without law shall also perish without law: and as many “as have sinned” in the law “shall be judged by the law”
One standard for all Christian as our master.;

Human experience as a work of one imagination after their own fleshly mind it is not prophecy inspired by God . He warns us of such,
Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a “voluntary humility” and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath “not seen”, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Today now that God is no longer bring any new revelation after any manner , The interpretation of dreams or a vision as in lo is Christ. This is not God bringing new revelations that could be added to His existing revelation the bible which is sealed up till the end of time.

Having what people call an out of body experience is simply lying spirits bringing information into a person fleshy mind. It was Satan, the father of lies, the god of this world who tried to perform that kind of work of lying signs and wonders on Christ .Who although did not move from with inside His body in His flesh he was shown all the kingdoms of the world and the glory thereof . The same goes with hypnotism there is a danger that seducing spirit can enter in and deceive the person

Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.Jesus said unto him, “It is written again”, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Mat 4:5

 

[RobbyEarl]

Hope beyond human hope to the unseen eternal... hope, hope,hope.

Our experiences are validated by the word as you said the first time. It can’t be both ways as if we could serve two masters..



The bible does not need to be in ones hand to be saved. it is just that we cannot know him without it. It is not an idol by which we summon God to come down and commune with us.

The Bible as the perfect law of God which does quicken our souls, giving us simply one His understanding .

Without that law, in the book of His law (Bible) no man could understand God and therefore have the God given ability to search him out. The living word, His written witness that he has spoken determines whether or not a person has heard the word of God and believed to the salvation of their soul..No law no salvation.

Romans 2:12 For as many “as have sinned” without law shall also perish without law: and as many “as have sinned” in the law “shall be judged by the law”
One standard for all Christian as our master.;

Human experience as a work of one imagination after their own fleshly mind it is not prophecy inspired by God . He warns us of such,
Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a “voluntary humility” and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath “not seen”, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Today now that God is no longer bring any new revelation after any manner , The interpretation of dreams or a vision as in lo is Christ. This is not God bringing new revelations that could be added to His existing revelation the bible which is sealed up till the end of time.

Having what people call an out of body experience is simply lying spirits bringing information into a person fleshy mind. It was Satan, the father of lies, the god of this world who tried to perform that kind of work of lying signs and wonders on Christ .Who although did not move from with inside His body in His flesh he was shown all the kingdoms of the world and the glory thereof . The same goes with hypnotism there is a danger that seducing spirit can enter in and deceive the person

Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.Jesus said unto him, “It is written again”, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Mat 4:5

When was there law?

 

[miknik5]

When was there law?

Which one are you referring to?
The written commands or the first verbal one to Adam which was "do not"...

 

[popeye]

I am not coming down on one side or the other at the moment, but I do have a legitimate question. When I was a kid, one of my friends showed me how to speak "in tongues". He said he learned it in church. I have never had any reason to believe he was saved. I don't know if I was saved at the time or not.

Some years later, as an adult, another friend and I were goofing around "speaking in tongues" to one another. And even now, I can do it any time I like. I make no spiritual claim about it.

Also, there have been a number of comedians who have pretended they were speaking a foreign language when they were not. They made it sound German, Italian, French, etc. So obviously, the ability to "appear" to speak in tongues is a common human ability.

My first question is, respectfully, what is the difference between these experiences of appearing to speak in tongues and those that people believe come from God? How does one discern the difference?

(This is not a criticism. Merely an honest question.)

Another question I have also wondered about is that if one can "speak" in tongues, can one "write" in tongues? If so, would it be intelligible to someone somewhere, or would it just be gibberish?

How would one discern the difference between random writing and true tongues writing?

Paul never mentioned it.we already have the written word.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Which one are you referring to?
The written commands or the first verbal one to Adam which was "do not"...

Not Eve and to the rest there was no law as there was no tree of knowledge, what law did Noah obey?

 

[garee]

When was there law?

When did it not exist?

The whole bible is the perfect law of God .Not one word of the Bible comes as a philosophical opinion of men as a private interpretation or a personal commentary. His word ,the who is law.

Because it is alive it can judge the very intent of our heart/conscience. His law as being greater than it. and cannot return void from the the good purpose by which God sends it .It can perform what it infallibly claims it can. If it was a philosophical theory as a oral tradition of men and not a law we would be like all of the other pagan nations of this world (no faith)

The law of the LORD "is perfect", converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD "is sure", making wise the simple.
The statutes of the LORD "are right", rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD "is pure", enlightening the eyes. The fear of the LORD "is clean", enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD "are true and righteous altogether".
More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Moreover "by them" is thy servant warned: and in keeping "of them" there is great reward.
Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.Psa 19:7

He fulfilled his perfect law, he did not abolish it, making it to no effect.

 

[RickyZ]

The power is in the word of God.

Jas 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
Jas 3:8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

Jesus taught His disciples to pray but He never taught them to pray in tongues. Our relationship with our Father in heaven is open through Christ and does not require us to pray through any mediator like tongues.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That's true, no one is required to speak in tongues.

But then again, when in their car no one is required to shift out of first gear either

 

[RickyZ]

Roger? why don't you just come right out and tell the good folks what you really think about those who pray in tongues?

I mean I know what you think and some other members know what you think...because we have had this conversation before

you know...the part where you state that it is your belief that those who pray in tongues do so by the power of a demon?

so, now that's finally out in the open

That is thought provoking.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Wow. ember just invited Roger to commit the unforgivable sin...

and ol' Rog is seriously considering it.

Stay tuned folks!

 

[RickyZ]

This was Paul's idea,

1Co 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking in the Spirit of God saith, Jesus is anathema; and no man can say, Jesus is Lord, but in the Holy Spirit.

Thus he saw some prophecy and tongues as demonic and some as genuine,

Exactly! Discernment, not dismissal, is the key here.

 

[RickyZ]

1 Tim 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You should know about this one Rog.

IT IS TALKING ABOUT YOU

 

[RickyZ]

now now

turnaround is not fair play here

we all know how you applied that verse...considering your belief that those who speak in tongues have demon

really getting a tad childish here Roger...

desperate I believe is the word