WOF is Heresy & Should be Avoided at all Costs!

[Stephen63]

[video=youtube;d_fDAhAEwsk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_fDAhAEwsk[/video]

You would think every false preacher/teacher/prophet would have their own version of doctrine to tell the masses, but they don't..... they all say the same thing. Why? How could carnal, unsaved people all say the same thing with unity?

The answer is simple: the same spirit taught them all. This was happening in the early church; it's no wonder it's happening now, in the last hours!

2 Corinthians 11:2-4 (TEV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I am jealous for you, just as God is; you are like a pure virgin whom I have promised in marriage to one man only, Christ himself. [SUP]3 [/SUP]I am afraid that your minds will be corrupted and that you will abandon your full and pure devotion to Christ—in the same way that Eve was deceived by the snake's clever lies. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For you gladly tolerate anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus, not the one we preached; and you accept a spirit and a gospel completely different from the Spirit and the gospel you received from us!

1 Corinthians 10:18-21 (NLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Think about the people of Israel. Weren’t they united by eating the sacrifices at the altar? [SUP]19 [/SUP]What am I trying to say? Am I saying that food offered to idols has some significance, or that idols are real gods? [SUP]20 [/SUP]No, not at all. I am saying that these sacrifices are offered to demons, not to God. And I don’t want you to participate with demons. [SUP]21 [/SUP]You cannot drink from the cup of the Lord and from the cup of demons, too. You cannot eat at the Lord’s Table and at the table of demons, too.

We can only serve one master. We can only eat at one table..... which one will it be?

 

[Grace777x70]

1 Peter 2:1-2 (NASB)

[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Is WOF the same thing as what was (or is) called hyper faith?

 

[Grace777x70]

To keep the slander and malice down to a minimum I am posting by permission what JGIG posted concerning this subject.

Quote:

Everyone needs to weigh what they see and hear - folks need to pray for discernment and listen to the Spirit of God within them and compare what they're hearing/seeing to what the Bible plainly AND contextually says.

Example in Discernment - Joseph Prince:

Let me take a teacher who has gotten both support and raked over the coals here at CC, Joseph Prince. I've watched/listened to a bunch of his stuff, and in my opinion, he's one of the best teachers of the Gospel, the New Covenant, the Work of Christ, and the High Priesthood of Christ, and he lovingly and with good humor, builds up the believer in who they are in Christ. He also has a great ability to show how nearly everything in the Old Testament points to and foreshadows the realities that are in Christ.

That said, I think his teaching on the Lord's Supper is a little weird, and he does lean toward the 'claim your healing' mentality, which is, I believe, a reflection of his WOF 'roots' (self admitted). Those are the only things I have disagreements with him on that I've found (and I don't listen to him regularly, but have listened to a bunch of his stuff).

Regarding his teachings on wealth/prosperity, one needs to understand a few things:

1. Joseph Prince defines prosperity as having what you need plus extra so that you can bless/minister to others

1. Joseph Prince does not take a salary from his church (hasn't for years)

1. Joseph Prince's income is from his books

1. There are very active ministries at JP's church - they are not just a bunch of money-grubbing, selfish people looking to live in nice houses and drive nice cars. New Creation Church is a pipeline where money flows in, money flows out in ministry: New Creation Church - Outreach

1. Joseph Prince's broadcasts - every single one that I've heard - ALWAYS says that they believe that your giving should go to your local church FIRST, and that if you feel led, that they welcome any support you feel led to give to them. There is NO 'sow your seed with this ministry and God will bless you' schtick AT ALL at NCC or preached by JP.

Heresy Hunters and Joseph Prince:

Now some heresy hunters will often cite JP's self-admitted WOF 'roots' and then go about tearing apart Kenneth Hagin and every other WOF teacher they can think of in their articles that are 'exposing' Joseph Prince. Other heresy hunters will rip JP apart and call him a false teacher because he teaches eternal security. Then the Reformed heresy hunters will tell us how JP must be a heretic because he believes that the gifts of the Spirit are for today. The Holiness heresy hunters will rail against JP's teachings about Grace.

FEW, IF ANY of them will have sat down and actually watched a number of JP's teachings and evaluated what he actually teaches, but instead join in the feeding frenzy of snippets taken out of context by other heresy hunters aiming to take him down. Meanwhile, his teaching is setting thousands and thousands of viewers free and his ministry is flourishing.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.

Gee whiz, people! State your disagreement, give your opinion, back it up with what you believe Scripture has to say on the matter, and let the reader/listener/viewer examine the issues and make up their own mind.

It's always instructive to look into the 'ministries' of these heresy hunting types - their overall demeanor, who they DO approve of and what those folks teach, and the fruit of their ministries. Many times they're just miserable, wounded, Christians who don't fellowship in real churches and interact with real people where they have to build real relationships but limit their interaction with others to the internet.

So for those on this thread who don't know me as well as others, I'm not a naïve type of believer who thinks all is posies and daffodils out there - I know that's not true. There is an Enemy out there who actively seeks to do harm to the Body of Christ.

I also know that He Who is in me is GREATER than he who is in the world! The Enemy has NO power I don't give him. The Enemy was defeated at the Cross and his greatest remaining weapon is deception. The best defense? KNOW WHAT'S TRUE AND STAND ON IT. The Gospel is the core of all Truth, and when we have a firm grasp on

• Who Christ is
• What He came to do
• What that actually accomplished, and
• What that means for those who put their faith and trust in Christ and who they are in Him.

. . and we equip ourselves and other believers with those foundational Truths, then when someone with something that is counterfeit approaches them, they'll recognize it and know to reject it because of how well they know what's TRUE in CHRIST.

The solution to false/bad teaching out there is building up and equipping the Body of Christ about who She is in Christ. Address falsehoods, show where they are in error, and then move on to building up and equipping with contextual, Biblical Truth.

And this is long and I'll end it here. Kudos to you if you made it this far .

Grace and peace,
-JGIG

 

[FreeNChrist]

Is WOF the same thing as what was (or is) called hyper faith?

Don't know. I do know it's not the same thing as what you would call hyper-grace.

 

[crossnote]

To keep the slander and malice down to a minimum I am posting by permission what JGIG posted concerning this subject.

Quote:

Everyone needs to weigh what they see and hear - folks need to pray for discernment and listen to the Spirit of God within them and compare what they're hearing/seeing to what the Bible plainly AND contextually says.

Example in Discernment - Joseph Prince:

Let me take a teacher who has gotten both support and raked over the coals here at CC, Joseph Prince. I've watched/listened to a bunch of his stuff, and in my opinion, he's one of the best teachers of the Gospel, the New Covenant, the Work of Christ, and the High Priesthood of Christ, and he lovingly and with good humor, builds up the believer in who they are in Christ. He also has a great ability to show how nearly everything in the Old Testament points to and foreshadows the realities that are in Christ.

That said, I think his teaching on the Lord's Supper is a little weird, and he does lean toward the 'claim your healing' mentality, which is, I believe, a reflection of his WOF 'roots' (self admitted). Those are the only things I have disagreements with him on that I've found (and I don't listen to him regularly, but have listened to a bunch of his stuff).

Regarding his teachings on wealth/prosperity, one needs to understand a few things:

1. Joseph Prince defines prosperity as having what you need plus extra so that you can bless/minister to others

1. Joseph Prince does not take a salary from his church (hasn't for years)

1. Joseph Prince's income is from his books

1. There are very active ministries at JP's church - they are not just a bunch of money-grubbing, selfish people looking to live in nice houses and drive nice cars. New Creation Church is a pipeline where money flows in, money flows out in ministry: New Creation Church - Outreach

1. Joseph Prince's broadcasts - every single one that I've heard - ALWAYS says that they believe that your giving should go to your local church FIRST, and that if you feel led, that they welcome any support you feel led to give to them. There is NO 'sow your seed with this ministry and God will bless you' schtick AT ALL at NCC or preached by JP.

Heresy Hunters and Joseph Prince:

Now some heresy hunters will often cite JP's self-admitted WOF 'roots' and then go about tearing apart Kenneth Hagin and every other WOF teacher they can think of in their articles that are 'exposing' Joseph Prince. Other heresy hunters will rip JP apart and call him a false teacher because he teaches eternal security. Then the Reformed heresy hunters will tell us how JP must be a heretic because he believes that the gifts of the Spirit are for today. The Holiness heresy hunters will rail against JP's teachings about Grace.

FEW, IF ANY of them will have sat down and actually watched a number of JP's teachings and evaluated what he actually teaches, but instead join in the feeding frenzy of snippets taken out of context by other heresy hunters aiming to take him down. Meanwhile, his teaching is setting thousands and thousands of viewers free and his ministry is flourishing.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.

Gee whiz, people! State your disagreement, give your opinion, back it up with what you believe Scripture has to say on the matter, and let the reader/listener/viewer examine the issues and make up their own mind.

It's always instructive to look into the 'ministries' of these heresy hunting types - their overall demeanor, who they DO approve of and what those folks teach, and the fruit of their ministries. Many times they're just miserable, wounded, Christians who don't fellowship in real churches and interact with real people where they have to build real relationships but limit their interaction with others to the internet.

So for those on this thread who don't know me as well as others, I'm not a naïve type of believer who thinks all is posies and daffodils out there - I know that's not true. There is an Enemy out there who actively seeks to do harm to the Body of Christ.

I also know that He Who is in me is GREATER than he who is in the world! The Enemy has NO power I don't give him. The Enemy was defeated at the Cross and his greatest remaining weapon is deception. The best defense? KNOW WHAT'S TRUE AND STAND ON IT. The Gospel is the core of all Truth, and when we have a firm grasp on

• Who Christ is
• What He came to do
• What that actually accomplished, and
• What that means for those who put their faith and trust in Christ and who they are in Him.

. . and we equip ourselves and other believers with those foundational Truths, then when someone with something that is counterfeit approaches them, they'll recognize it and know to reject it because of how well they know what's TRUE in CHRIST.

The solution to false/bad teaching out there is building up and equipping the Body of Christ about who She is in Christ. Address falsehoods, show where they are in error, and then move on to building up and equipping with contextual, Biblical Truth.

And this is long and I'll end it here. Kudos to you if you made it this far .

Grace and peace,
-JGIG

Why don't you practice what you preached to me...just ignore the post if you don't agree with it?

 

[Karraster]

Those who have been here a while may remember back when a cc member was always posting about how Bible translations were changing. (Not to be confused with the KJV only guys), but this one was showing how useful comparing translations were. I wish I could remember his name, it would be useful to see his list again, i am working on a list myself..it is very telling.

To me, it is convincing evidence how big this deception is! IOW~what Bibles are these mega preachers using? I know some draw from several to piece together a perfectly tickling/tingling message. Here's one example how the Gospel gets twisted:

NIV_Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

New Living Translation
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.

English Standard Version
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Berean Study Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.

New American Standard Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

King James Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. <--------(see how this part is left out in other translations?)
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,

 

[Messy]

Is WOF the same thing as what was (or is) called hyper faith?

No, my ex went a year to a WOF Bible school and he gave us those lessons. It's speak to the mountain of sickness and believe you have received it and it will happen. But nowadays popular teachers have turned it into name it and claim it if you want a Mercedes.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

King James Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. <--------(see how this part is left out in other translations?)

That is what's known as a variant. I think the general consensus is that it shouldn't be there.

 

[crossnote]

Those who have been here a while may remember back when a cc member was always posting about how Bible translations were changing. (Not to be confused with the KJV only guys), but this one was showing how useful comparing translations were. I wish I could remember his name, it would be useful to see his list again, i am working on a list myself..it is very telling.

To me, it is convincing evidence how big this deception is! IOW~what Bibles are these mega preachers using? I know some draw from several to piece together a perfectly tickling/tingling message. Here's one example how the Gospel gets twisted:

NIV_Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

New Living Translation
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.

English Standard Version
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Berean Study Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.

New American Standard Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

King James Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. <--------(see how this part is left out in other translations?)
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,

Not to change the topic but this goes to textual variants...not translations per se.

 

[Willie-T]

Those who have been here a while may remember back when a cc member was always posting about how Bible translations were changing. (Not to be confused with the KJV only guys), but this one was showing how useful comparing translations were. I wish I could remember his name, it would be useful to see his list again, i am working on a list myself..it is very telling.

To me, it is convincing evidence how big this deception is! IOW~what Bibles are these mega preachers using? I know some draw from several to piece together a perfectly tickling/tingling message. Here's one example how the Gospel gets twisted:

NIV_Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

New Living Translation
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.

English Standard Version
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Berean Study Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.

New American Standard Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

King James Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. <--------(see how this part is left out in other translations?)
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,

How is it that you are so certain that part WAS LEFT OUT of everything else, and not actually ADDED IN to the KJV when it may not have ever been in the original text, at all?

 

[Messy]

10 Ways the Word of Faith Movement Went Wrong — Charisma News

His last point, what my ex said years ago when he went to Rhema Bible school was that they had a Holy Ghost meeting every saturday to roll around and have fun and he had to attend but he didn't want to. He said: Why don't we go to the street and bring the gospel? So they listened to him and did that. And then if someone had demonic influence, they didn't believe that nor pray for him, so he prayed for the guy to be set free himself. That might have changed, don't know. I'm not WOF but on healing and faith they had great teaching and also on that not everything just happens because it's God's will.

 

[Angela53510]

Those who have been here a while may remember back when a cc member was always posting about how Bible translations were changing. (Not to be confused with the KJV only guys), but this one was showing how useful comparing translations were. I wish I could remember his name, it would be useful to see his list again, i am working on a list myself..it is very telling.

To me, it is convincing evidence how big this deception is! IOW~what Bibles are these mega preachers using? I know some draw from several to piece together a perfectly tickling/tingling message. Here's one example how the Gospel gets twisted:

NIV_Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

New Living Translation
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.

English Standard Version
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Berean Study Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus.

New American Standard Bible
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

King James Bible
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. <--------(see how this part is left out in other translations?)
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,

We studied this in Intermediate Biblical Greek this semester. The extra part in KJV was added to the last Greek manuscripts, the ones that Erasmus and the KJV committee used. KJV often has extra things, because the Greek scribes like to add things. Sometimes it was added to the margins as a commentary, and then the next generation of scribes incorporated it into the actual manuscripts.

The Byzantine empire spoke Greek, and hence thre are many more manuscripts of the Byzantine tradition than others. But that doesn't make them right!

In fact, the science of lower Biblical criticism is very advanced. They have literally tracked down where every mistake and change occurred in what manuscript and how it was passed down. Sometimes it was a scribal error, one letter different which resulted in a different word. Most of these don't make any difference to the message of the Bible.

As for Romans 8:1 - I am not sure why you think it is so important. Because it proves that you can lose your salvation?

We use the United Bible Societies Greek New Testament. What is nice, is that it lists every variant, which manuscripts, when they are dated, and what the majority of manuscripts read.

The earlier Greek manuscripts are the better ones to use. They have not been added to, tampered with or accidental mistakes made in the copying process. Those manuscripts were not available when KJ convened his translation committee over 400 years ago.

That is why we do not rely on those added parts - like in Romans 8:1 - that has been thoroughly rejected by every translation committee in the world - which is why the other versions are all the same, and KJV is different. KJV is the one that is wrong.

 

[Angela53510]

Getting back to the OP:

From what I have read on here, and correct me if I am wrong, the hypergrace movement seems to be a correction in the WoF movement. Moving away from the adamant claims that God MUST heal and MUST make us rich, to a gospel which teaches about the love and grace of God.

The big problem I see with hypergrace is that it leaves out repentence as part of our sanctification, which is clearly in the Bible.

As for WoF itself, I've spoken against many times, as a judgmental and condemning and false gospel, which destroys and kills people - literally who wait for healing that God has not chosen to do. And also fleeces the flock of their money, in the hopes of getting rich.

It seems like we are not seeing as much WoF on here lately!

 

[Stephen63]

Why don't you practice what you preached to me...just ignore the post if you don't agree with it?

Well said. You notice ya can't disagree with him 'cuz he didn't write it. Makes it rather one-sided, doesn't it?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Getting back to the OP:

From what I have read on here, and correct me if I am wrong, the hypergrace movement seems to be a correction in the WoF movement. Moving away from the adamant claims that God MUST heal and MUST make us rich, to a gospel which teaches about the love and grace of God.

I don't have evidence for this other than Prince being one of the primary movers and shakers of hyper grace, but I think that hyper grace may be the WOF version of Free Grace theology.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Getting back to the OP:

From what I have read on here, and correct me if I am wrong, the hypergrace movement seems to be a correction in the WoF movement. Moving away from the adamant claims that God MUST heal and MUST make us rich, to a gospel which teaches about the love and grace of God.

Which, as I see it, is the good that the undiluted gospel of grace is working in the WOF movement.

 

[WarriorForChrist]

Getting back to the OP:

From what I have read on here, and correct me if I am wrong, the hypergrace movement seems to be a correction in the WoF movement. Moving away from the adamant claims that God MUST heal and MUST make us rich, to a gospel which teaches about the love and grace of God.

The big problem I see with hypergrace is that it leaves out repentence as part of our sanctification, which is clearly in the Bible.

As for WoF itself, I've spoken against many times, as a judgmental and condemning and false gospel, which destroys and kills people - literally who wait for healing that God has not chosen to do. And also fleeces the flock of their money, in the hopes of getting rich.

It seems like we are not seeing as much WoF on here lately!

Not to stick up for the WoF crowd but I don't think they believe God must heal us etc... but He has already done this. Or could this be what the hyper grace people have taken on? Basically it is that Jesus has already done what He is going to do. This is my understanding of it.

 

[Willie-T]

Not to stick up for the WoF crowd but I don't think they believe God must heal us etc... but He has already done this. Or could this be what the hyper grace people have taken on? Basically it is that Jesus has already done what He is going to do. This is my understanding of it.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, but I have seen, and been instrumental in, far too many incidences of healing and miraculous happenings to ever believe that Jesus shut the door on these things at the cross.

 

[Grace777x70]

(snip)
The big problem I see with hypergrace is that it leaves out repentence as part of our sanctification, which is clearly in the Bible.

(snip)!

Hi Angela....this above is actually a common mis-conception about repentance about what people have called hyper-grace. Here is a short article for anyone that is interested in this.

Personally I love to repent when I hear truth about Jesus and think as long as we are on this earth and seeing through a glass darkly we will all be repenting. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin James says...that sure takes in a lot of stuff!

Myth 1: Hyper-Grace Preachers are Against Repentance

https://escapetoreality.org/2014/08/20/hyper-grace-repentance/