Adoption! Pro or Con

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forgivenandloved

Guest
#21
LOL! I'm surprised the opening post in this thread doesn't state: "QuestionTime may not post in this thread, thank-you"

I am adamantly anti-Adoption of course, because our Lord never took babies from birthmothers and gave them to other adoptive mothers and then sent the birthmother away alone, starving and without help or hope. Our Lord would never do that. Our Lord would help birthmother and baby to stay together and have both of their needs met.

Adoption is about two things = baby and adoptive parents, and therefore is - in my opinion - self-centered. God wants us to care for birthmom too.

Quest
Well, I see your point, but I'm biased since I'm adopted. Both of my parents died and I was in Nigeria and in Nigeria orphans get sold as slaves. So anyway I think its good for pregnant teens who aren't ready to take care of a child. Think about it Samuel was adopted by Eli when he was a young child. We as Christians are all adopted God's family. just something to think about :)
 
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forgivenandloved

Guest
#22
There are a lot of studies that show that many adopted kids have social problems due to a feeling of abandonment. They have difficulty with getting close to people so a close personal realationship is hard for them. Some of them have low self-esteem and develop a subserviant attitude towards authority figures. It must be very difficult for them
Ya are very right it is very hard. I had the hardest time trusting anyone. I think it's been in the past year that I learned how to trust.
 

QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
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#24
Think about it Samuel was adopted by Eli when he was a young child. We as Christians are all adopted God's family. just something to think about :)
I was waiting for someone to mention this bit of scripture. It's taken a very long time for anyone to do so. If I could give you an award for Bible knowledge I would!

I am biased because I am adopted also.

Moses also gave the Israelites the option to divorce their wives, but Jesus said that you shouldn't. Likewise I don't think one particular reference in the entirety of the Bible should become a rule for the generality of mankind.

I would die a happy man if at least I can succeed to bring some 50/50 balance to this issue, where now the balance is 99/1.

Quest
 

QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
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#25
Ya are very right it is very hard. I had the hardest time trusting anyone. I think it's been in the past year that I learned how to trust.
I have lived the loneliest life you can imagine. I used to sit at home playing computer games, hoping I'd win the lottery so I'd never have to venture out into society to work.

Thankfully I was found by God and some godly people and with them I had regular fellowship, though the strain on them from my often not wanting to show up for meetings made their lives difficult. I suppose I understand now why I so often felt paralyzed and didn't want to go to church...

Sadly our church disintegrated because the leadership corrupted themselves, so now I am on my own again.

Quest
 

QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
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#26
What would God do about a mother who was told by her boyfriend, "The brat or me!" She made her choice and ended up dead in a domestic killing. They never got married. What do you think would have happened to my daughter if she had somehow stayed with her mother and her boyfriend

We offered her love and a chance for a much better life than what she had at home. We did not take her from her mother. That decision had already been made. I now have four children and (three by natural birth) and I cannot tell which of the four I love more, but I will always consider my first to be God's "choice" for me.
That's a very tragic incidence and I am well aware that this kind of thing happens often. However - as I have detailed in my thread on adoption - there is abundance of corruption in this industry where birthmothers are pressured into adoption and where babies are legally kidnapped by social workers for adoption because of the huge bonus money these social workers receive from the government for every successful adoption.

What happened in your situation is not one ounce worse than a baby being stolen from a good family for life due to false accusation of criminal wrongdoing. Please read my thread as I have links to video where you can learn about the rampant corruption that exists on the other side of the adoption coin.

As I said to someone in this forum before - there has to be a 50/50 balance on this issue, where currently the balance is about 99/1.

Quest
 
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forgivenandloved

Guest
#27
Quest: What do you think about all the children in orphanages should they not be adopted?
 
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lighthousejohn

Guest
#28
That's a very tragic incidence and I am well aware that this kind of thing happens often. However - as I have detailed in my thread on adoption - there is abundance of corruption in this industry where birthmothers are pressured into adoption and where babies are legally kidnapped by social workers for adoption because of the huge bonus money these social workers receive from the government for every successful adoption.

What happened in your situation is not one ounce worse than a baby being stolen from a good family for life due to false accusation of criminal wrongdoing. Please read my thread as I have links to video where you can learn about the rampant corruption that exists on the other side of the adoption coin.

As I said to someone in this forum before - there has to be a 50/50 balance on this issue, where currently the balance is about 99/1.

Quest
Has your bitterness hardened your heart to the point that you only see the black side of this issue? There is corruption in every industry and you will find unsavory people preying on those that are to weak or unwilling to fight for themselves. But you must also admit that there are circumstances where adoption is a better choice for the child and sometimes for the mother.

Some very good friends of mine agreed to adopt a baby from a young girl (minor) who was cast out by her family. They also adopted the young girl. She will help raise her daughter/sister until she is able to care for her herself. They have agreed that the baby will always know that her sister is also her mother. The baby was the result of statutory rape. The girls parents wanted her to abort the child and she refused.

There are good reasons for adoptions as well as bad. We all need to be aware of all the circumstances before we adopt.
 

QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
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#29
Quest: What do you think about all the children in orphanages should they not be adopted?
Everyone seems to think that I take my stance to an unreasonable extreme, and I don't. The problem is - if people viewed the videos that I presented in my other thread - they would see that possibly the majority of children in foster care in the USA have been legally abducted from good families. That's what Senator Schaefer fought against and why she lost her seat in the Senate.

It's easy for everyone to dismiss me as a lunatic, but if they would view the videos I presented, they would realize the depth of evil that is occurring right now.

Quest
 

QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
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#30

Some very good friends of mine agreed to adopt a baby from a young girl (minor) who was cast out by her family. They also adopted the young girl. She will help raise her daughter/sister until she is able to care for her herself. They have agreed that the baby will always know that her sister is also her mother. The baby was the result of statutory rape. The girls parents wanted her to abort the child and she refused.

There are good reasons for adoptions as well as bad. We all need to be aware of all the circumstances before we adopt.
I love this story that you present because this is exactly what I have been saying that adoption should be, from the very first day I joined this forum. Adopt both baby and mom together.

God bless these friends of yours!

Quest
 
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forgivenandloved

Guest
#31
Everyone seems to think that I take my stance to an unreasonable extreme, and I don't. The problem is - if people viewed the videos that I presented in my other thread - they would see that possibly the majority of children in foster care in the USA have been legally abducted from good families. That's what Senator Schaefer fought against and why she lost her seat in the Senate.

It's easy for everyone to dismiss me as a lunatic, but if they would view the videos I presented, they would realize the depth of evil that is occurring right now.

Quest
I totally understand where you are coming from. :)
 
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aprilrenee1

Guest
#32
forgiveandloved...dont get into that with me. there is another forum....and I dont need to explain
 
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forgivenandloved

Guest
#33
forgiveandloved...dont get into that with me. there is another forum....and I dont need to explain
Okay fine all I'm saying is you are very bitter and I'm really sorry about whatever happened to you and pray God heals your heart. :)
 
Jan 29, 2010
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#34
Adoptees also make up a large percentage of people in the prison system (40%?) despite being only a small percentage of the general population (4%). They also have difficulties with self-discipline.

Quest
I would be extremely interested to see statistical proof of this claim.
 
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lighthousejohn

Guest
#35
lighhouse are you adopted? do you know my life?
No, I am not adopted but My father was adopted and returned to the orphanage in 1921 in exchange for a girl. I have adopted one daughter. We were told that we could not have children. We asked for a special needs child because we knew that they are often oberlooked. She has been a real blessing to us.
 

QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
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#36
I would be extremely interested to see statistical proof of this claim.
I believe that I got that quote from "The Primal Wound." My parole officer in 2002 agreed fully with that statement from his own experience.

(I didn't get a criminal record, I was angry at my birthmother and said some nasty things so I got a peace order against me and had to visit a parole officer for 6 months to a year).

She talks to me if I call her, but only for about 10-15 minutes. I haven't called her for awhile.

I found this online:

http://www.amfor.net/DeathPenalty/
ADOPTEES ON DEATH ROW


ADOPTEE STEVE OKEN

Executed 6-17-04, Maryland

ADOPTEE STEVE STEIN

on Florida's Death Row
Most of today's prison population who are adoptees, including those convicted of murder, were adopted at birth (rather than at an older age) or were separated from parents in infancy. Comparison of FBI stats with adoption stats suggest an over-representation of adoptees in our nation's prisons (detailed on Adopted Killers page). During the past 8 years, only the United States, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq and Yemen have executed children (those who were under 18 at the time of the crime); their adoptive status and horrific abuse at the hands of adopters and stepparents rarely revealed at their trials (see Adoptees Who Kill for list). Texas has been a leader in the practice of killing children.
JOHNNY FRANK GARRETT was executed in 1992 for the rape-murder of a Catholic nun, committed when he was 17. As a child, Garrett was beaten by a series of stepfathers and seated on a hot stove because he would not stop crying. He was sodomized by a number of adults and forced to perform pornographic acts (including having sex with a dog) on film.
JOSEPH JOHN CANNON was on Death Row in Texas for a crime he committed as a teenager. He suffered serious head injuries after being hit by a truck when he was four and subsequently spent years in an orphanage. Between the ages of seven and seventeen, Cannon was sexually abused regularly by his stepfather and grandfather. At the age of fifteen he tried to kill himself by drinking insecticide. None of this information was presented to the jury in Cannon's case.
MARVIN MATTHEW TRIPLETT, 39, DOB 4-7-64 in Aiken, SC, and raised in St. Louis, MO, has been on Death Row for 12 years. His time is near ending. Matt would like to locate his sister, Peggy White Triplett, daughter of Homer Therguil Triplett and Mattie Louise White; AmFOR assisted Marvin's search.

Quest
 
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QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
1,435
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#37
Here are some interesting links:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090525062253AAENMyT

"From personal experience working in RTCs (which is hardly scientific, but whatever) it was odd to have a child in there who -wasn't- adopted."

http://www.amfor.net/statistics.html#ADOPTEES

ADOPTEES

o The number of Serial Killers who are adopted is disproportionate to the general population who are serial killers.
o TWICE as many adopted killers are in the category of Adoptees Who Killed Their Adopters.

60-85% of internees at Coldwater Canyon Center For Personal Development,
����� psychiatric facility are adoptees; most are referrals from Juvenile Probation Dept.
������� -Dr. Lee Bloom, Former Unit Director
��������� Coldwater Canyon Hospital, Hollywood, CA; reported in
�������� "Growing Up Behind Locked Doors," Rolling Stone magazine, 11-20-86.

20-35% of internees at several hundred private psychiatric hospitals in 13 regions
�������� were adoptees.
�������� -Betty Jean Lifton, American Adoption Congress conference, 1988,
��������� from a report by an Illinois doctor.
70% of internees at a Monroe, Washington psychiatric facility were adoptees.
�������� -Reported to American Adoption Congress conference,
���������� 1988 by Washington Adoptee Rights Movement (WARM)
����������� attended by a Monroe counselor.

5-15% of patient load in mental clinics is the average reported figure for adoptees
������� under psychiatric care, although official (govt.) stats estimate only 2% of U.S.
������� population are adoptees. (Theory: a child's ignorance of his past causes
������� "genealogical bewilderment" [and so is] prone to dysfunction.)
12% of adolescents and children in private therapy are adopted;
20-30% of adolescents and children in psychiatric in-patient units are adoptees;
������� -An Open Adoption, Lincoln Caplan, Farrar, Straus & Giroux, NY,
��������� as cited in Bottom Line, 9-15-90

14% of adoptees end up in therapy, and
40% of adoptees end up in schools for disturbed children
��������� (of the estimated 2% of the population who are adoptees).
������� -Dr. Steven Nickman as quoted by Dr. Phyllis Chesler in
�������� Scared Bond (Geraldo show transcript #225, 7-28-88)

40% of psychiatric internees surveyed were adoptees;
�������� adopted children have a higher rate of emotional and
�������� psychological problems than the general population of youngsters
����������� -Mothers On Trial, Dr. Phyillis Chesler,
������������ quoting Dr. William Murdoch, child psychologist at
������������ Loma Linda University School of Medicine, and
����������� Director, Charter Hospital-Redlands Child In-Patient Unit

13% of 69 firesetters were adoptees compared to a
������� control group of non-firesetters which had only 3% adoptees.
��������� -Dr. Wayne S. Wooden and Dr. Martha Lou Berkey,
��������� a study of youthful firesetters in the San
��������� Bernadino County, CA, Juvenile Justice System

45% of all 602's (felonies committed by juveniles) are by adoptees.
�� -Interstate Compact On Children, as reported by June Idler,
���� Juvenile Compact, Riverside County Juvenile Probation Dept, 1988

20% of adolescents in drug rehabilitation and residential substance abuse
����� treatment programs are adopted.
������� -Center For Adoptive Families.
Adoptees Who Kill

"I'm afraid to get angry."
-(Quote by Attorney Donald Humphrey, an adoptee, regarding male adoptees' inability to express emotion)
16% of 500 serial killers are adoptees.
-- FBI statistics - http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/foiaindex_s.htm
14% of 225 serial killers are adoptees
-- Dr. Mike Aamodt, Radford University
Web pages at http://www.amfor.net/prisoners/ & http://www.adoptedkillers.com provide a name and face to adoptees who have killed including Serial Killers, Adoptees Who Kill Their Adopters. Chosen Children, a free 300-page e-book at http://www.amfor.net/chosenchildren/ contains in-depth research on Serial Killers, the majority of whom are Adoptees, as well as unscripted narratives incarcerated adoptees (drug addicts, thieves, murderers, a child molester), and what makes their crimes unique to adoptees.
As with any stress, adoption can affect different people in different ways and to different degrees. Male adoptees appear to deal with their feelings of rejection with more rage and aggression than do females. The ultimate expression of such rage is an act of violence, even murder. In 1997, one 100 children under age 10 were charged with murder (Frontline, PBS, 12-16-97); "tough on crime" politicos seek to prosecute them as adults and claim they are "genetically defective."

Adoption really is a great thing,

Quest
 
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forgivenandloved

Guest
#38
all statistics are biased because they only include the people they want to in the statistics.
 
Apr 13, 2007
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#39
You can't go around saying that sort of thing man....they only put up those that are in jail and all. Why don't you find the statistics of those that are NOT and have NOT ever been in jail? You'd be shocked I bet you! Not everyone that has been adopted or whatever have ever been or ever will be in any kind of trouble, be an offender of any form, or anything else. Look also, based on the home and life style they were brought up in. That plays a HUGE and MAJOR factor in things. If they were brought up outside of God's word and house, and all, then yeah they have a chance and risk of doing said things, BUT if they were, they'll probably be fine. God's word says to bring up a child in the ways of the Lord, and according to His word, and it shall NOT depart from them when they're older.

I wasn't adopted however, my parents did abandon my sister and myself. Did we ever go to jail, do drugs, become sex offenders, etc like you have listed? NO we did NOT! There's soooooooo many that haven't. You can NOT say all or most will do such things based on so many that have. If they have accepted the Lord, they won't be doing such things, end of discussion. God bless.
 
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Robert1857

Guest
#40
LOL! I'm surprised the opening post in this thread doesn't state: "QuestionTime may not post in this thread, thank-you"

I am adamantly anti-Adoption of course, because our Lord never took babies from birthmothers and gave them to other adoptive mothers and then sent the birthmother away alone, starving and without help or hope. Our Lord would never do that. Our Lord would help birthmother and baby to stay together and have both of their needs met.

Adoption is about two things = baby and adoptive parents, and therefore is - in my opinion - self-centered. God wants us to care for birthmom too.

Quest
I am an adopted child. I was not taken away from my birth mother. I was given away by my birth mother.
Of course, had I been born 6 years later, I might not have lived to see the light of day. Luckily for me, Roe vs Wade had not happened yet.