Whats the deal with Catholics?
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you can say this as often as you wish, but the reality is that people in the RCC bow to statues of Mary and kiss the stone feet, but instead of taking steps to curb such idolatry, the RCC builds more statues, and your liturgical, ritualistic prayers do nothing less than worship her in quite literal word, as though worshiping her in deed is not sufficient to be damning:
ex. "morning consecration to Mary"
My Queen, My Mother, I offer
myself entirely to thee.
And to show my devotion to thee,
I offer thee this day, my eyes,
my ears, my mouth, my heart,
my whole being without reserve.
Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own,
keep me, guard me as thy property and possession.
Amen.
this prayer, repeated every morning by millions of devout in the RCC, speaks for itself in blasphemy, and contradicts the gentle, innocent picture you would present to us.
your words, are like a snake: you have horns like a lamb, but you speak like a dragon.
ex. "morning consecration to Mary"
My Queen, My Mother, I offer
myself entirely to thee.
And to show my devotion to thee,
I offer thee this day, my eyes,
my ears, my mouth, my heart,
my whole being without reserve.
Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own,
keep me, guard me as thy property and possession.
Amen.
this prayer, repeated every morning by millions of devout in the RCC, speaks for itself in blasphemy, and contradicts the gentle, innocent picture you would present to us.
your words, are like a snake: you have horns like a lamb, but you speak like a dragon.
Hi Paul.
So the woman gives birth to a male child who everyone will agree is Jesus (a person).
A dragon tries to get Him and ruin everything. Everyone agrees that is Satan (a person).
But the woman who birthed the male child....that can't be Mary (a person). That has to be a nation.
I'll grant you that imagery in Revelation can have multiple meanings. But the most straightforward reading would be that the woman is Mary. There can be more than one meaning. That is just the most obvious one. Since Jesus and Satan are both there and she is the woman who birthed the male child.
That isn't true. Actually, that is quite a ridiculous statement.
Nope. Let's be honest. Catholics haven't rewritten anything. That is another false statement.
What you are really saying, I believe, is that your interpretation is different from the Catholic Church's interpretation of the Scriptures. Nobody has rewritten anything.
But what makes your interpretation better? Or the correct one? I wonder.
Nope. I don't agree with your interpretation again. Well, I take that back. I agree with the second part. Just not the first. Jesus is telling the people that it is better to belong to Jesus' in a spiritual family than our earthly blood relatives. Mary is blessed in both ways, though. She is Jesus blood relative, His Mother, AND she submitted to God in an incredible way and is part of His spiritual family, too. She is the only human being who will ever be able to say that!
You mean by not observing the Word of God as you interpret it.
If you don't like the Catholic Church's interpretation that is fine. But I wonder by what authority do you claim that it's interpretations are wrong? That's what I don't get about Protestantism....it seems like everybody professes this freedom to read the Bible and interpret it for themselves, but whoever interprets it differently is wrong. I don't get it.
I think your only fallback would be to say, "My authority is the Bible itself." But that solves nothing. Everybody else who disagrees with your interpretation can say the exact same thing.
Sadly, some probably do. I wouldn't say most, though. Us Catholics have a pretty deep sense of the need for repentance for sins (confession and all that, you know
), and we do know Christ personally especially (but not exclusively, mind you) through the Holy Eucharist.
I try to repent of all my sins.
Jesus loves Mary. So I love Mary. Why would I reject somebody He loves? No rejection of her is necessary.
"Accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior" sometimes put "Accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior"....is that phrase found in the Bible? I'm not saying I reject it....I don't. I'm just wondering where it is found in the Bible.
God bless.
So the woman gives birth to a male child who everyone will agree is Jesus (a person).
A dragon tries to get Him and ruin everything. Everyone agrees that is Satan (a person).
But the woman who birthed the male child....that can't be Mary (a person). That has to be a nation.
I'll grant you that imagery in Revelation can have multiple meanings. But the most straightforward reading would be that the woman is Mary. There can be more than one meaning. That is just the most obvious one. Since Jesus and Satan are both there and she is the woman who birthed the male child.
That isn't true. Actually, that is quite a ridiculous statement.
Nope. Let's be honest. Catholics haven't rewritten anything. That is another false statement.
What you are really saying, I believe, is that your interpretation is different from the Catholic Church's interpretation of the Scriptures. Nobody has rewritten anything.
But what makes your interpretation better? Or the correct one? I wonder.
Nope. I don't agree with your interpretation again. Well, I take that back. I agree with the second part. Just not the first. Jesus is telling the people that it is better to belong to Jesus' in a spiritual family than our earthly blood relatives. Mary is blessed in both ways, though. She is Jesus blood relative, His Mother, AND she submitted to God in an incredible way and is part of His spiritual family, too. She is the only human being who will ever be able to say that!
You mean by not observing the Word of God as you interpret it.
If you don't like the Catholic Church's interpretation that is fine. But I wonder by what authority do you claim that it's interpretations are wrong? That's what I don't get about Protestantism....it seems like everybody professes this freedom to read the Bible and interpret it for themselves, but whoever interprets it differently is wrong. I don't get it.
I think your only fallback would be to say, "My authority is the Bible itself." But that solves nothing. Everybody else who disagrees with your interpretation can say the exact same thing.
Sadly, some probably do. I wouldn't say most, though. Us Catholics have a pretty deep sense of the need for repentance for sins (confession and all that, you know
), and we do know Christ personally especially (but not exclusively, mind you) through the Holy Eucharist. I try to repent of all my sins.
Jesus loves Mary. So I love Mary. Why would I reject somebody He loves? No rejection of her is necessary.
"Accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior" sometimes put "Accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior"....is that phrase found in the Bible? I'm not saying I reject it....I don't. I'm just wondering where it is found in the Bible.
God bless.
M
It's interesting how all these Catholic conversations go around in full
circle. The same points are now been raised as stated and answered in the
earlier pages.
Nothing new is been asked or stated.
Catholics are not really giving any supporting verses. This suggests they are following
man made traditions and rules, though many of us do to a certain degree about all sorts of
things. The question which has to be asked though now, is if those man made rules
and traditions are contrary to the bible, then what action will be taken?
Biggiest one I can think of is about one mediator etc, the verse has been mentioned
several times on this thread.
So maybe for now the Catholics responding could think about how they reconcile praying to
dead saints and praying to Mary in light of this verse. Maybe you can point out this verse
to your own priest and ask them what they think and ask why, in light of this verse,
are Catholics told that it is ok to prayer to Mary and dead saints and where did this
tradition come from It would be interesting to know the official answer.
1 Timothy 2:1-6 NKJV
[1] Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving
of thanks be made for all men, [2] for kings and all who are in authority, that we may
lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.
[3] For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, [4] who desires all
men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. [5] For there is one God
and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, [6] who gave Himself
a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
circle. The same points are now been raised as stated and answered in the
earlier pages.
Nothing new is been asked or stated.
Catholics are not really giving any supporting verses. This suggests they are following
man made traditions and rules, though many of us do to a certain degree about all sorts of
things. The question which has to be asked though now, is if those man made rules
and traditions are contrary to the bible, then what action will be taken?
Biggiest one I can think of is about one mediator etc, the verse has been mentioned
several times on this thread.
So maybe for now the Catholics responding could think about how they reconcile praying to
dead saints and praying to Mary in light of this verse. Maybe you can point out this verse
to your own priest and ask them what they think and ask why, in light of this verse,
are Catholics told that it is ok to prayer to Mary and dead saints and where did this
tradition come from It would be interesting to know the official answer.
1 Timothy 2:1-6 NKJV
[1] Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving
of thanks be made for all men, [2] for kings and all who are in authority, that we may
lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence.
[3] For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, [4] who desires all
men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. [5] For there is one God
and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, [6] who gave Himself
a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
Hi Ken.
I agree that there have been times when there was a lot wrong with the Catholic Church. It needed a reform at the time of Martin Luther. But what came was a schism. A revolution. And we can see the result. Widespread disunity, continual fracturing, continual schisms....down to our day.
So if the man, Martin Luther and the man, John Calvin can come along and start their own brand of Christianity because that is proof that there was a lot wrong with the Catholic Church....let's continue that line of thinking for a minute.
That means that every time somebody splits off from one church and starts a new one...God is proving that something is wrong with that church. Huh. There are literally thousands and thousands of denominations today. And more are forming all of the time. So according to your logic, new denominations springing up is God's way of proving that there is something wrong with whatever church the splinter group came from.
Lots of stuff going wrong with Christianity today, then, I guess.
God bless.
I agree that there have been times when there was a lot wrong with the Catholic Church. It needed a reform at the time of Martin Luther. But what came was a schism. A revolution. And we can see the result. Widespread disunity, continual fracturing, continual schisms....down to our day.
So if the man, Martin Luther and the man, John Calvin can come along and start their own brand of Christianity because that is proof that there was a lot wrong with the Catholic Church....let's continue that line of thinking for a minute.
That means that every time somebody splits off from one church and starts a new one...God is proving that something is wrong with that church. Huh. There are literally thousands and thousands of denominations today. And more are forming all of the time. So according to your logic, new denominations springing up is God's way of proving that there is something wrong with whatever church the splinter group came from.
Lots of stuff going wrong with Christianity today, then, I guess.
God bless.
[
What makes your interpretation better than the Catholic Church's interpretation?
Please don't say "Because I'm using the Bible." Catholics can say the same.
If that is true, then all of these thousands upon thousands of Protestant denominations are just God continuing to smote, smote, smote because so many of those churches have walked away from God, then, huh?
Peace.
Please don't say "Because I'm using the Bible." Catholics can say the same.
If that is true, then all of these thousands upon thousands of Protestant denominations are just God continuing to smote, smote, smote because so many of those churches have walked away from God, then, huh?
Peace.
Hi Vdp,
No refutation necessary.
I bolded some parts above. They show that there really wasn't anything special about Mary. What she did was say "yes" to Him. God did all the rest. All of the credit goes to God. What is wrong with that? It's not like Mary did anything of her own power other than submit to His will like we all wish we could.
God bless.
No refutation necessary.
I bolded some parts above. They show that there really wasn't anything special about Mary. What she did was say "yes" to Him. God did all the rest. All of the credit goes to God. What is wrong with that? It's not like Mary did anything of her own power other than submit to His will like we all wish we could.
God bless.
Hey ph,
I'm not repugnated (that might not be a word) This thread was started by someone asking what's the deal with Catholics. Probably gotta talk to a Catholic to find out the deal. Just like gotta talk to a Mormon to find out the LDS deal, Baptist to find out the Baptist deal etc.
I've gotta be offline for quite some time....plus I'm over doing my welcome here so here's a spot to get you started with the Catholic view on your question:
How We Know Mary Was a Perpetual Virgin | Catholic Answers
God bless.
I'm not repugnated (that might not be a word
) This thread was started by someone asking what's the deal with Catholics. Probably gotta talk to a Catholic to find out the deal. Just like gotta talk to a Mormon to find out the LDS deal, Baptist to find out the Baptist deal etc.I've gotta be offline for quite some time....plus I'm over doing my welcome here so here's a spot to get you started with the Catholic view on your question:
How We Know Mary Was a Perpetual Virgin | Catholic Answers
God bless.
Hi Demi.
I've been meaning to tell you how funny that flying Jesus on the car windshield was!! I loved it!! You made me laugh!! Thanks.
The bolded part above is where there is confusion. Catholics do not try to bring saints into their presence. Don't need to. That would be like a seance and that is very dangerous spiritually.
All we do is realize that Christians pray for other Christians, death doesn't separate us from the Body of Christ so we are still connected through Him, so we just ask them to pray for us. (Check out 1 Cor. 12)
We don't expect to hear back from a Saint and we'd probably be quite spooked if it happened so we just say like "St. Joseph, please pray for us to become a better followers of Jesus Christ." or something and leave it at that.
No spooky stuff!!
Oh, and we know it isn't the same as necromancy because Jesus talked to the "dead" Moses during His Transfiguration. Jesus was fully human. As a fully human person, He didn't sin. He couldn't sin. He also wouldn't do anything that for us would be a sin. He was perfect. So talking to Moses, was ok.
Peace.
I've been meaning to tell you how funny that flying Jesus on the car windshield was!! I loved it!! You made me laugh!! Thanks.
The bolded part above is where there is confusion. Catholics do not try to bring saints into their presence. Don't need to. That would be like a seance and that is very dangerous spiritually.
All we do is realize that Christians pray for other Christians, death doesn't separate us from the Body of Christ so we are still connected through Him, so we just ask them to pray for us. (Check out 1 Cor. 12)
We don't expect to hear back from a Saint and we'd probably be quite spooked if it happened so we just say like "St. Joseph, please pray for us to become a better followers of Jesus Christ." or something and leave it at that.
No spooky stuff!!
Oh, and we know it isn't the same as necromancy because Jesus talked to the "dead" Moses during His Transfiguration. Jesus was fully human. As a fully human person, He didn't sin. He couldn't sin. He also wouldn't do anything that for us would be a sin. He was perfect. So talking to Moses, was ok.
Peace.
Hi Demi.
I've been meaning to tell you how funny that flying Jesus on the car windshield was!! I loved it!! You made me laugh!! Thanks.
The bolded part above is where there is confusion. Catholics do not try to bring saints into their presence. Don't need to. That would be like a seance and that is very dangerous spiritually.
All we do is realize that Christians pray for other Christians, death doesn't separate us from the Body of Christ so we are still connected through Him, so we just ask them to pray for us. (Check out 1 Cor. 12)
We don't expect to hear back from a Saint and we'd probably be quite spooked if it happened so we just say like "St. Joseph, please pray for us to become a better followers of Jesus Christ." or something and leave it at that.
No spooky stuff!!
Oh, and we know it isn't the same as necromancy because Jesus talked to the "dead" Moses during His Transfiguration. Jesus was fully human. As a fully human person, He didn't sin. He couldn't sin. He also wouldn't do anything that for us would be a sin. He was perfect. So talking to Moses, was ok.
Peace.
I've been meaning to tell you how funny that flying Jesus on the car windshield was!! I loved it!! You made me laugh!! Thanks.
The bolded part above is where there is confusion. Catholics do not try to bring saints into their presence. Don't need to. That would be like a seance and that is very dangerous spiritually.
All we do is realize that Christians pray for other Christians, death doesn't separate us from the Body of Christ so we are still connected through Him, so we just ask them to pray for us. (Check out 1 Cor. 12)
We don't expect to hear back from a Saint and we'd probably be quite spooked if it happened so we just say like "St. Joseph, please pray for us to become a better followers of Jesus Christ." or something and leave it at that.
No spooky stuff!!
Oh, and we know it isn't the same as necromancy because Jesus talked to the "dead" Moses during His Transfiguration. Jesus was fully human. As a fully human person, He didn't sin. He couldn't sin. He also wouldn't do anything that for us would be a sin. He was perfect. So talking to Moses, was ok.
Peace.
And the pic.. Yeah I love that one too and find it hilarious that only ONE person took it as a insult so far.
God bless
Hi Miri.
I'm not gonna interrupt your conversation with Onelord...but I do want to say that I have read the recommended resource "Reasoning from the Scriptures with Catholics" by Rhodes and he does a horrible job of accurately presenting Catholic teaching from start to finish. That makes it completely unreliable.
I wanted to get his Reason with J.W.'s or something else like that he has, but I can't trust that that would be accurate either.
Peace.
I'm not gonna interrupt your conversation with Onelord...but I do want to say that I have read the recommended resource "Reasoning from the Scriptures with Catholics" by Rhodes and he does a horrible job of accurately presenting Catholic teaching from start to finish. That makes it completely unreliable.
I wanted to get his Reason with J.W.'s or something else like that he has, but I can't trust that that would be accurate either.
Peace.