Whats the deal with Catholics?
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J
there was an early church leader named Eusebius that lived around 300. he quoted Mat 28 19 many times in his writings. it was always quoted as - “Go and make disciples of all nations in my name”. the Father Son and Holy Spirit are never mentioned and many experts believe it was footnotes that were added later. this makes sense when you compare the passage with
Acts 2:38 – Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:16 – For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 10:48 – So Peter ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus the Messiah.
if the Father Son and Holy Spirit are the proper way to baptize, commanded by Jesus, then why would the Apostles disobey that command? they learned and spoke to Jesus face to face, i think they would know.
Acts 2:38 – Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:16 – For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 10:48 – So Peter ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus the Messiah.
if the Father Son and Holy Spirit are the proper way to baptize, commanded by Jesus, then why would the Apostles disobey that command? they learned and spoke to Jesus face to face, i think they would know.
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More entries from the lurker who keeps
adding user names in capital letters...
●IPROVEHERETICSHAVENOPOWER
and
●EXTRAECCLESIAMNULLASALUS
Both join dates are June 13th...
one is listed as christian, the other is listed unsure,
otherwise they're the same profiles
and similar to those below.
Can someone please help pass this info around, and
get it to the proper authorities...it's become apparant
this user/users mean no good, and seeing these names
keep popping up on our profile/likes home page is going
from annoying to harrassing. Thanks and God Bless.
More entries from the lurker who keeps
adding user names in capital letters...
●IPROVEHERETICSHAVENOPOWER
and
●EXTRAECCLESIAMNULLASALUS
Both join dates are June 13th...
one is listed as christian, the other is listed unsure,
otherwise they're the same profiles
and similar to those below.
Can someone please help pass this info around, and
get it to the proper authorities...it's become apparant
this user/users mean no good, and seeing these names
keep popping up on our profile/likes home page is going
from annoying to harrassing. Thanks and God Bless.
Last edited:
K
Hi Miri. Let me take a shot at your questions, since it's bumped and apparently you didn't get an answer. You ask, in effect, how can a Catholic reconcile praying to Saints or asking for mediation. You also justified your questioning with 1 Timothy 2 1-6.
I want to make sure you understand one thing for certain that was taught to me. It's ALWAYS preferable to pray directly to Jesus Christ. Of course He is the only Mediator to God. Jesus is the only One that is this unique God/Man. He is in the only One that can intervene or convey or argue between us and God. He is the only bridge to God. However, to Catholics and to Protestant alike, this does not mean we should never intercede with prayer for each other. Matter of fact - the scripture you quoted in 1 Timothy strongly encourages us to intercede for each other. Paul also points out this encouragement throughout his letters and again in 1 Timothy 2:5 always encouraging others to intercede on his behalf or vice versa or for each other. So, the real question is why I would or think I could prayerfully intervene with someone who's dead; like a saint or the Mother of Christ since they can't hear us. I believe, tho, that all those souls under God's Grace are eternal. That though they may have died earthly deaths, their life continues in the Kingdom of God and can hear prayers. The direct intercession of saints is supported by Revelations 5:8 where John talks about seeing in his visions the saints offering our prayers to God in the form of bowls of incense. If the saints couldn't hear our prayers, then they would have nothing to offer. To me, saints can intercede but not with the authority of Christ. It is a plea of petition rather like the intercession of other Christians even on Prayer Forums in this site. The only true Mediator with authority is Christ - of that we have absolutely no disagreement and of course it's better to go directly to Jesus with prayerful petition. Other times - and rather like sending your Congressman or Senator a request or question - it's better to have agreement with others, maybe along with a signed petition. It carries more weight. In that same light, it's sometimes better to have others agree with us in prayer before God. So scripture tells us that it's good and pleasing to God for us under God's Grace to intercede for each other. I do not see any of this intercession - be it from living Saints in the Kingdom of God or fellow Christians on CC - as an infringement upon Christ's role as the Mediator.
I've heard it argued that God expressly prohibits speaking to the dead. In Deuteronomy .. I can't recall the verse - but it speaks directly of conjuring spirits of the dead. The Catholics believe this verse warns us about conjuring up the dead for the purpose of personal gain, like getting information or profiting from information or sorcery of some kind. There's other scripture, however, where Jesus speaks with the "dead" at the Mount of Transfiguration where Christ spoke with Elijah and Moses in Matthew 17 with Peter as witness. I've also heard from many asking how Mary or some other Saint could possibly hear the prayers of millions and in all different languages and so on. To that, I don't know, but I do know that the Kingdom of God would defy all things known to man. All physics, all understanding, all tongues.
This is just my take on why I believe what I do. Praying with the help of intercession of saints or man, it helps me to understand that most of my prayer should be in form of praise. It helps me remember that I'm speaking, either through intercession or direct plea through Christ, to Authority and that my prayers should reflect the humility of self in the face of such grandeur.
The bible specifically tells us to pray for one another. Christians do NOT pray to more than one mediator, for Jesus is the ONLY mediator we need. Jesus alone mediates our prayers, and the prayers of others who pray for us. We are simply giving our prayers to Jesus, but HE does the mediating. Catholics pray to Mary and the saints, so YOU better not ask anyone to pray to them on your behalf.. else you're a hypocrite.. 
People praying to God on our behalf is no different than people praying to Mary on behalf of others, EXCEPT that Jesus is the ONE AND ONLY mediator. Mary cannot either hear, answer, or mediate prayers..
People praying to God on our behalf is no different than people praying to Mary on behalf of others, EXCEPT that Jesus is the ONE AND ONLY mediator. Mary cannot either hear, answer, or mediate prayers..
The bible specifically tells us to pray for one another. Christians do NOT pray to more than one mediator, for Jesus is the ONLY mediator we need. Jesus alone mediates our prayers, and the prayers of others who pray for us. We are simply giving our prayers to Jesus, but HE does the mediating. Catholics pray to Mary and the saints, so YOU better not ask anyone to pray to them on your behalf.. else you're a hypocrite..
People praying to God on our behalf is no different than people praying to Mary on behalf of others, EXCEPT that Jesus is the ONE AND ONLY mediator. Mary cannot either hear, answer, or mediate prayers..
People praying to God on our behalf is no different than people praying to Mary on behalf of others, EXCEPT that Jesus is the ONE AND ONLY mediator. Mary cannot either hear, answer, or mediate prayers..
M
Hi Miri. Let me take a shot at your questions, since it's bumped and apparently you didn't get an answer. You ask, in effect, how can a Catholic reconcile praying to Saints or asking for mediation. You also justified your questioning with 1 Timothy 2 1-6.
I want to make sure you understand one thing for certain that was taught to me. It's ALWAYS preferable to pray directly to Jesus Christ. Of course He is the only Mediator to God. Jesus is the only One that is this unique God/Man. He is in the only One that can intervene or convey or argue between us and God. He is the only bridge to God. However, to Catholics and to Protestant alike, this does not mean we should never intercede with prayer for each other. Matter of fact - the scripture you quoted in 1 Timothy strongly encourages us to intercede for each other. Paul also points out this encouragement throughout his letters and again in 1 Timothy 2:5 always encouraging others to intercede on his behalf or vice versa or for each other. So, the real question is why I would or think I could prayerfully intervene with someone who's dead; like a saint or the Mother of Christ since they can't hear us. I believe, tho, that all those souls under God's Grace are eternal. That though they may have died earthly deaths, their life continues in the Kingdom of God and can hear prayers. The direct intercession of saints is supported by Revelations 5:8 where John talks about seeing in his visions the saints offering our prayers to God in the form of bowls of incense. If the saints couldn't hear our prayers, then they would have nothing to offer. To me, saints can intercede but not with the authority of Christ. It is a plea of petition rather like the intercession of other Christians even on Prayer Forums in this site. The only true Mediator with authority is Christ - of that we have absolutely no disagreement and of course it's better to go directly to Jesus with prayerful petition. Other times - and rather like sending your Congressman or Senator a request or question - it's better to have agreement with others, maybe along with a signed petition. It carries more weight. In that same light, it's sometimes better to have others agree with us in prayer before God. So scripture tells us that it's good and pleasing to God for us under God's Grace to intercede for each other. I do not see any of this intercession - be it from living Saints in the Kingdom of God or fellow Christians on CC - as an infringement upon Christ's role as the Mediator.
I've heard it argued that God expressly prohibits speaking to the dead. In Deuteronomy .. I can't recall the verse - but it speaks directly of conjuring spirits of the dead. The Catholics believe this verse warns us about conjuring up the dead for the purpose of personal gain, like getting information or profiting from information or sorcery of some kind. There's other scripture, however, where Jesus speaks with the "dead" at the Mount of Transfiguration where Christ spoke with Elijah and Moses in Matthew 17 with Peter as witness. I've also heard from many asking how Mary or some other Saint could possibly hear the prayers of millions and in all different languages and so on. To that, I don't know, but I do know that the Kingdom of God would defy all things known to man. All physics, all understanding, all tongues.
This is just my take on why I believe what I do. Praying with the help of intercession of saints or man, it helps me to understand that most of my prayer should be in form of praise. It helps me remember that I'm speaking, either through intercession or direct plea through Christ, to Authority and that my prayers should reflect the humility of self in the face of such grandeur.
See post 259, 260, 261
bump.............
That's not strange at all. Christians ask other Christians to pray for them and we do it because it is the right thing to do and we are told to do it in the Bible. Mary is a Christian who we can ask to pray for us just like we can ask crossnote to pray for us. And if they are both good Christians and love as they should, they will both pray for us.
That's how we look at it. Mary and the Saints are just Christians who are no longer on earth, but still connected to the Body of Christ.
ex. "morning consecration to Mary"
My Queen, My Mother, I offer
myself entirely to thee.
And to show my devotion to thee,
I offer thee this day, my eyes,
my ears, my mouth, my heart,
my whole being without reserve.
Wherefore, good Mother, as I am thine own,
keep me, guard me as thy property and possession.
Amen.
this prayer, repeated every morning by millions of devout in the RCC, speaks for itself in blasphemy, and contradicts the gentle, innocent picture you would present to us.
your words, are like a snake: you have horns like a lamb, but you speak like a dragon.
[[[ BUMP ]]]
V
Catholics believe and confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead. So I would not concern yourself over your friends salvation or need to convert. the catholic church needs believers within their church to be a true witness to them, just as all denominations need true believers. "if they are for me they are not against me" Jesus Christ.
Having high Christology, as Catholics do, does not mean they have a soteriology that is Biblical. (Soteriology - how we are saved)
So yes, the RCC has a very orthodox view of Jesus Christ. They do see him as Lord and Saviour. They exalt him as God. So far so good, right?
BUT, how you get saved according to Rome is not the same as the Bible. Catholics need to have sacraments, including baptism, to be saved. They need to attend mass, where they are given the "actual blood and body" of Jesus Christ" to eat. Which is really not Scriptural, since Jesus was alive when he gave those instructions for that memorial.
Further a Catholic has to be completely sanctified, before they are justified. In other words, through the sacraments and their works, they need to earn their way into heaven. Often, this takes the form of hanging out in purgatory till they have suffered enough, and their living relatives have paid out enough in masses for them to be saved.
Thus a Roman Catholic never knows they are truly saved when they die, and neither do their families. I remember the funeral of my RCC uncle who died back in 2011. My cousin, his son, who is a Baptist, along with a close family friend who was a Lutheran, re-wrote the Catholic ceremony. They took out the readings from the Apocrypha, but more important they took out prayers for the sins of my uncle. The priest was furious. Right up there, from behind the pulpit, he said, "How can you not pray for the soul of this dead person? Surely you must realize he had sins that were not paid for when he died."
And no, we never prayed for my uncle's dead soul in purgatory. I trust that he either knew Christ, and believed for his salvation, or he did not. In either event, there is no purgatory so he is not there!
"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed." 1 Peter 2:24
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23
"In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins." 1 John 4:10
"And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross." Col. 2:13-14