The Holy Spirit convicts of sin
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E
let me try to explain things in a way which may make more sense. by using a few examples
EG, and some others believes 2 + 2 = 4
Peter believes 4 - 2 = 2
In this example. All parties believe in the same conclusion, they are just worded different ways
This would expain HS does not "convict" issue, as both are saying pretty much the same things, but they use different language. Yet Peter wants to base his argument, that the 2 + 2 - 4 group is wrong.
In the other example
EG and some others believe 2 + 4 = 6
Peter argues. No, I know what you believe, You believe 2 X 4 equals 6, which is wrong, because 2 X 4 = 8
Which EG and the rest would say, Yes, Peter, we know 2 X 4 equals 8, But we never said 2 X 4, we said 2 + 4. 2 + 4 = 6
Peters response is to get angry and defensive, saying we are falsely accusing him of slander, when it is proven, his problem is misunderstanding of what the other people say.
This is an example of him continually saying EG and others judge him because he preaches obedience and following God and that's why we call him legalist.
When in reality, We say we judge people who claim salvation is dependent on obedience.. Not talking against obedience at all. We would practice and preach obedience by maturing in Christ, so he has falsy accused us.
and this has been going on for MONTHS.. These "hate" and attack thread and Peters own attempt to try to justify his own correctness with this very op are what started this nonsense, It is time to say enough is enough
EG, and some others believes 2 + 2 = 4
Peter believes 4 - 2 = 2
In this example. All parties believe in the same conclusion, they are just worded different ways
This would expain HS does not "convict" issue, as both are saying pretty much the same things, but they use different language. Yet Peter wants to base his argument, that the 2 + 2 - 4 group is wrong.
In the other example
EG and some others believe 2 + 4 = 6
Peter argues. No, I know what you believe, You believe 2 X 4 equals 6, which is wrong, because 2 X 4 = 8
Which EG and the rest would say, Yes, Peter, we know 2 X 4 equals 8, But we never said 2 X 4, we said 2 + 4. 2 + 4 = 6
Peters response is to get angry and defensive, saying we are falsely accusing him of slander, when it is proven, his problem is misunderstanding of what the other people say.
This is an example of him continually saying EG and others judge him because he preaches obedience and following God and that's why we call him legalist.
When in reality, We say we judge people who claim salvation is dependent on obedience.. Not talking against obedience at all. We would practice and preach obedience by maturing in Christ, so he has falsy accused us.
and this has been going on for MONTHS.. These "hate" and attack thread and Peters own attempt to try to justify his own correctness with this very op are what started this nonsense, It is time to say enough is enough
E
Yep. same song and dance when I spent days and almost a whole thread months ago, nicely trying to show you your slander against myself and other people. You refuse to repent and admit you could be wrong, let alone, show some humility and try to figure it out
I have proved it over and over, Whether you think I did or not does not matter.
He guys the sun has gone down here in the UK. Happens everyday of my life.
I praise you Lord that in all things your name is glorious and Worthy of Praise.
Thankyou that you overcame sin, and resolve issue, calm hearts, give sight to the blind, strength to the weak, healing to the sick, guidance to those who ask for it, wisdom to your people.
May you help EG sort out his issues and give me the peace to work through the things he feels I need to deal with.
Thankyou for your forgiveness through the cross, Amen and praise the Lord
I praise you Lord that in all things your name is glorious and Worthy of Praise.
Thankyou that you overcame sin, and resolve issue, calm hearts, give sight to the blind, strength to the weak, healing to the sick, guidance to those who ask for it, wisdom to your people.
May you help EG sort out his issues and give me the peace to work through the things he feels I need to deal with.
Thankyou for your forgiveness through the cross, Amen and praise the Lord
Thankyou for budman and those who diligently want to put people right, who desire the best for peoples hearts.
May you give us an insight into your love and cross, because you are the King and we see so little of how
you truly wish us to walk, and share and love each other.
I thank you for the work you have done in my heart, and praise you for the work you do in all of us.
May we have the insight and wisdom to know how to share this blessing to build up your body, Amen
May you give us an insight into your love and cross, because you are the King and we see so little of how
you truly wish us to walk, and share and love each other.
I thank you for the work you have done in my heart, and praise you for the work you do in all of us.
May we have the insight and wisdom to know how to share this blessing to build up your body, Amen
A
I got a few pages into this thread an all I could read is the wolves are hungry again.
I think that we have beat this dead horse to a pulp enough.
Maybe it's time to bury the dead horse. He has fought a good fight.
I think that we have beat this dead horse to a pulp enough.
Maybe it's time to bury the dead horse. He has fought a good fight.
Oh well Peter went to sleep, I wonder if the bloodbath will continue?
E
Help me. See yet again, It is everyone's fault but yours.
I feel you need to deal with (it seems I am not the only one, in fact I know I am not the only one. but that is beside the point.) one point and one point only (the rest I could care less about)
Stop bearing false witness against other people. by claiming they say one thing, when pretty much everyone else knows they are saying something else (and even if most people did not that would not matter, What matter is what the owner of the thought thinks, not what you or I think is he is saying
I am sorry Ariel. But the fact you liked this post just feeds the flame.. You just basically told him he was correct, and it was my problem not his..
If you think this to be the case, just please let me know..
if not. That's sad that you would basically enable him to again slander another person.
I feel you need to deal with (it seems I am not the only one, in fact I know I am not the only one. but that is beside the point.) one point and one point only (the rest I could care less about)
Stop bearing false witness against other people. by claiming they say one thing, when pretty much everyone else knows they are saying something else (and even if most people did not that would not matter, What matter is what the owner of the thought thinks, not what you or I think is he is saying
I am sorry Ariel. But the fact you liked this post just feeds the flame.. You just basically told him he was correct, and it was my problem not his..
If you think this to be the case, just please let me know..
if not. That's sad that you would basically enable him to again slander another person.
E
Yep months. Yet a brother is still sining against our brothers and sisters. But no one seems to care. but would rather excuse a man sin so as to not make waves.
I find it amazing that one if his major arguments is we as grace believers do not confront people who are in sin, Yet here he is wanting us to continue to excuse his own sin..
another case as do as I say. Not what I do..
I am not out for blood. I am out for a man to admit he is sinning and to repent and start discussing the word of God.
P
Untrue, here is another example of misquoting someone to get on your favorite hobby horse
"The Eviles (long i) of Hyper-Grace" which is some weird idea you think others have
that nothing is wrong and that all will behave in willly-nilly fashion unless constantly harranged about percieved sins
or lest one grow to "comfortable" or get to "friendly" with our Father.
Sad.....
"The Eviles (long i) of Hyper-Grace" which is some weird idea you think others have
that nothing is wrong and that all will behave in willly-nilly fashion unless constantly harranged about percieved sins
or lest one grow to "comfortable" or get to "friendly" with our Father.
Sad.....
Well, driving for a couple hundred miles kept me from getting to it right away
. I did let you all know I was signing off for a time, yes?
I did get your message and simply disagree with it because Scripture does not support your notion.
Here's your post:
I noticed that you didn't give ANY Scripture to back up your statement. Scripture simply says that God forgave all of our sins in Christ:
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (from 1 Jn. 1)
19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, (from Acts 3)
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace (from Eph. 1)
17 Then he adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.” (from Heb. 10)
13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. (from Col. 1)
Either the Blood of Christ was enough to take away the sins of the world (see 1 Jn, 2) or it wasn't, and those who receive the gift of forgiveness are either forgiven or they're not.
There is no going back and forth between being forgiven and unforgiven in the New Covenant as there was in the Old Covenant. In the Old Covenant, if you sinned after being forgiven, another sacrifice had to be made. If sin resulted in loss of forgiveness in the New Covenant, then Jesus would have to shed more of His Blood. The letter to the Hebrews tells us that that is not going to happen, therefore the only conclusion we can draw is that the forgiveness that Jesus provided by His Blood was enough to forgive ALL sin. He is able to save us completely because of His Work. We enter into that forgiveness by faith in Christ.
First I'd like to ask what translation you're using for the above, because I couldn't find one that uses the wording you have above, so using the above to support your assertions is dubious. Unless you can proved us with the name of the translation so we can examine its credibility. 1 Jn. 2:5-6 actually reads thus:
4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
In 1 John, John defines what the commandments of God are after the Cross:
23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. (from 1 Jn. 3)
That echos what Jesus said in John 6:28-29:
28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
And in John 13:34-35:
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
So we are to believe on the One God sent and love one another, just as He has loved us - THAT'S walking as Jesus walked! And THAT'S how the world will know we are His disciples - by our love, not by how good we are a commandment-keeping.
-JGIG
I'm glad you found the post interesting, Peter.
Those 'items' you refer to - did you not recognize them as Scripture? I included references and everything.
Interesting that you consider Scripture to be "the other extreme element of hyper-grace theology."
I'd have to agree - Scripture IS hyper-grace theology!
-JGIG
Those 'items' you refer to - did you not recognize them as Scripture? I included references and everything.
Interesting that you consider Scripture to be "the other extreme element of hyper-grace theology."
I'd have to agree - Scripture IS hyper-grace theology!
-JGIG
I was reading this morning about a hymn writer from the 1800's called Frances Ridley Havergal. She wrote many hymns and knew Latin, French, German, Greek and Hebrew. She also knew by heart the 4 gospels, epistles and the book of Revelation by the time she was 23 years old - yet she still lived in total defeat. She thought she had "great wickedness in her heart" - because of religious traditions taught to her.
It wasn't until she was reading in the Greek that the present tense was used for 1 John 1:7 ...His blood cleanseth us from all sin".
She realized all her sins were forgiven by the blood of Jesus and thus she believed it and experienced peace and joy in her life because of this truth.
She got the revelation that all her sins were forgiven because she was in Christ and in the Light. She was able to walk free in Christ from that point on. Today she would be called a "hyper-grace" heretic by some.
Believing the true gospel will change us as we grow in His grace.
Source: Jennie Chappell, "Women Who Have Worked and Won: the life story of Mrs. Spurgeon, Mrs. Booth-Tucker, F.R. Havergal, and Ramabai," London: S.W. Partridge & Co. Ltd. 1904
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Well, driving for a couple hundred miles kept me from getting to it right away
. I did let you all know I was signing off for a time, yes?
I did get your message and simply disagree with it because Scripture does not support your notion.
Here's your post:
I noticed that you didn't give ANY Scripture to back up your statement. Scripture simply says that God forgave all of our sins in Christ:
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (from 1 Jn. 1)
19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, (from Acts 3)
Believing of Jesus, and believing in Jesus are two different things.
When John says one is believing in Jesus, he is saying that one needs to be in Jesus to believe.
You need to read what John says about being in Jesus, or Jesus being in him or her.
(1 John 2:5-6) “But when anyone does obey what he has said, God's love comes to perfection in him." We can be sure that we are in God only when the one who claims to be living in him is living the same kind of life as Christ lived.” Jerusalem Bible
(1 John 2:6) The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he himself lived. International Standard Version
John says this is how we know we are in him. One who sin can’t believe in Jesus, because they are not living as Jesus lived.
(1 John 3:9) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.” Jerusalem Bible
(1 John 3:9) “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” KJV
Here John says God is in one who does not sin. So Children of God are in God, and God is in them.
17 Then he adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.” (from Heb. 10)
13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. (from Col. 1)
Either the Blood of Christ was enough to take away the sins of the world (see 1 Jn, 2) or it wasn't, and those who receive the gift of forgiveness are either forgiven or they're not.
There is no going back and forth between being forgiven and unforgiven in the New Covenant as there was in the Old Covenant. In the Old Covenant, if you sinned after being forgiven, another sacrifice had to be made. If sin resulted in loss of forgiveness in the New Covenant, then Jesus would have to shed more of His Blood. The letter to the Hebrews tells us that that is not going to happen, therefore the only conclusion we can draw is that the forgiveness that Jesus provided by His Blood was enough to forgive ALL sin. He is able to save us completely because of His Work. We enter into that forgiveness by faith in Christ.
First I'd like to ask what translation you're using for the above, because I couldn't find one that uses the wording you have above, so using the above to support your assertions is dubious. Unless you can proved us with the name of the translation so we can examine its credibility. 1 Jn. 2:5-6 actually reads thus:
4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
In 1 John, John defines what the commandments of God are after the Cross:
23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. (from 1 Jn. 3)
That echos what Jesus said in John 6:28-29:
28 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
And in John 13:34-35:
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
So we are to believe on the One God sent and love one another, just as He has loved us - THAT'S walking as Jesus walked! And THAT'S how the world will know we are His disciples - by our love, not by how good we are a commandment-keeping.
-JGIG
(John 12:47-48) “If anyone hears my words and does not keep them faithfully, it is not I who shall condemn him, since I have come not to condemn the world, but to save the world: he who rejects me and refuses my words has his judge already: the word itself that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.” Jerusalem Bible
(John 12:47-48) “And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. Jerusalem Bible
He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.” KJV
Jesus told us what commandments we are to live. And those Words that the Holy Spirit had us know are written in the New Testament. Read some of those Words and know if one does not keep them he or she is a sinner and of the devil.
(Matthew 5:48) “Even the pagans do as much, do they not? You must therefore be perfect just as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”
(Matthew 6:19) “Do not store up treasures for yourselves on earth, where moths and woodworms destroy them and thieves can break in and steal.”
(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”
Johnlove, what about the 'hard' sayings of Jesus?
Have you sold your possessions and given alms? Do you own the computer on which you've typed your post?
How about lust?
Have you ever looked at a woman with lust?
Which eye did you pluck out?
What happened the next time you looked at a woman with lust?
If you have followed the words of Jesus to the letter, how are you seeing this post?
What you are not 'seeing' is that Jesus was not saying those things in order to get you to follow those words, but to raise the bar of the Law - it's not just in the physical act of adultery that sin occurs, but in the mind where sin occurs. Sin simply comes to fruition in the flesh. Jesus was teaching the spirituality of the Law - and in doing so was raising the bar of the Law to an even more unattainable level - pointing us to Him, not Law, for our righteousness. This was not completely understood until after the Work of Christ. That's why Jesus said,
12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (from Jn. 16)
Yet He did give His disciples this to chew on beforehand:
And that's what He did, through the Holy Spirit after the Ascension. The result is the writings of the Apostles, which clarify what the Work of Christ accomplished, what that means, and who we are in Christ.
One of the key things is that we are dead to the Law:
4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. (from Rom. 7)
Do you see that we must be dead to the Law in order to serve God after the Cross?
It is very clear.
And Jesus' commandment to love one another is reiterated in 1 Jn. 3:23-24:
23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
It really is that simple.
-JGIG
Have you sold your possessions and given alms? Do you own the computer on which you've typed your post?
How about lust?
Have you ever looked at a woman with lust?
Which eye did you pluck out?
What happened the next time you looked at a woman with lust?
If you have followed the words of Jesus to the letter, how are you seeing this post?
What you are not 'seeing' is that Jesus was not saying those things in order to get you to follow those words, but to raise the bar of the Law - it's not just in the physical act of adultery that sin occurs, but in the mind where sin occurs. Sin simply comes to fruition in the flesh. Jesus was teaching the spirituality of the Law - and in doing so was raising the bar of the Law to an even more unattainable level - pointing us to Him, not Law, for our righteousness. This was not completely understood until after the Work of Christ. That's why Jesus said,
12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (from Jn. 16)
Yet He did give His disciples this to chew on beforehand:
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. 35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” (from Jn. 13)
And that's what He did, through the Holy Spirit after the Ascension. The result is the writings of the Apostles, which clarify what the Work of Christ accomplished, what that means, and who we are in Christ.
One of the key things is that we are dead to the Law:
4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. (from Rom. 7)
Do you see that we must be dead to the Law in order to serve God after the Cross?
It is very clear
.And Jesus' commandment to love one another is reiterated in 1 Jn. 3:23-24:
23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.
It really is that simple
.-JGIG