CONDEMNATION IS THE ROOT CAUSE

[God4me]

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[TD="align: left"]Romans 8:1, NASB

Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

CONDEMNATION IS THE ROOT CAUSE
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[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"] When you have a plant with sickly leaves, it would be foolish to just treat the leaves without knowing the root cause of the problem. Similarly, when “leaves” of sickness, poverty and destructive habits start sprouting in your life, you need to know what the root cause is.

Experts will tell you that it is stress. They may go a little deeper and say that it is fear—fear of the future, of rejection, of loss, of death and so on. But is fear really the root? Or is there something deeper than fear?

The Bible shows us that the most fundamental cause of problems in our lives is condemnation. With condemnation comes fear. Fear then induces stress which brings about the symptoms of the curse.

This is what happened to Adam. Long before he faced poverty, sickness and eventually death, he had stress. Because of his sin, God told him, “In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground.” (Genesis 3:19) Sweat speaks of stress.

But before there was stress, there was fear because Adam told God, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.” (Genesis 3:10)

But what made Adam fearful? Adam only feared when, seeing his nakedness, he realized that he had sinned against God. He felt so ashamed and condemned that he hid himself. God then asked him, “Who told you that you were naked?” (Genesis 3:11) There was no one else in the garden other than Adam and Eve, so we know that it was probably the devil who told Adam that he was naked.

My friend, condemnation is the root cause of the symptoms of the curse manifesting in your life. That is why you need to know that at the cross, God took all your sins, put them on Jesus and unleashed the full fury of His wrath against them until Jesus cried out, “It is finished!”

All your sins have been completely punished in the body of Christ who was condemned for you. The root cause of all your problems has been dealt with. This means that the devil cannot enforce the curse in your life apart from your receiving condemnation. So come to the place of no condemnation and no sick leaves will sprout in your life!

Grace Inspirations Joseph Prince Ministries[/TD]
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Joseph Prince is a false grace teacher, And part of Rom 8: 1, is a typical misquote that he would make,
he would leave the last part out, So instead he would quote it like this,

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ".

And leave out, "Who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit".
And as for Acts 20: 32, he leaves out,
"Among all them which are sanctifies".

He also quotes, Col 1: 22, "To present you holy and unblameable in His sight", but leaves out v23,
"IF ye continue in the faith".

Because he says doing those things are being legalistic and putting yourself back under the law.

AS for, "No condemnation", in Rom 8: 1. It's the only time that the Greek adds, "No dividing or separating".

So for those who walk after the Spirit, There is no condemnation, dividing or separating from the blessing we see in Rom 8.
V2, Free from the law of sin and death, [But not those who walk after the flesh],
V4, The meaning of, "The righteousness of the law", is, "Our legal rights", Those who walk in the Spirit can enjoy their legal rights, But not those who walk in the flesh.
So we need to find out what our legal rights are, and walk in the Spirit, and enjoy our rights in Christ.
V11, The Spirit that raised Christ from the dead lives in us, and will keep our bodies healthy. [But those who are walking in the flesh, will have condemnation within themselves, and wont have confidence in the blessings of God. 1 Jn 3: 21--22.

You can read the rest of the blessings that those who walk in the Spirit will have, in the rest of Rom 8.

 

[Magenta]

Point #1: What did Jesus become on the cross? Sin. If He BECAME sin, would He not, then, have some difficulty maintaining FAITH? If not, then I suppose BECOMING sin had no real effect on Him? I have to believe those were more than just some words to fill up a page in the Bible. I have to believe that period in time was real life, in its dirtiest and most painful moments.

It seems you equate becoming sin with actual sinning. And yet, Jesus was sinless. Was this condition of sinlessness then changed as He hung on the cross? Serious question, just wondering what you believe... point two I cut because I think we agree already: Adam and Eve's awareness of evil came from their disobedience to God.

 

[Grace777x70]

Joseph Prince is a false grace teacher, And part of Rom 8: 1, is a typical misquote that he would make,
he would leave the last part out, So instead he would quote it like this,

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ".

And leave out, "Who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit".
And as for Acts 20: 32, he leaves out,
"Among all them which are sanctifies".

He also quotes, Col 1: 22, "To present you holy and unblameable in His sight", but leaves out v23,
"IF ye continue in the faith".

Because he says doing those things are being legalistic and putting yourself back under the law.

AS for, "No condemnation", in Rom 8: 1. It's the only time that the Greek adds, "No dividing or separating".

So for those who walk after the Spirit, There is no condemnation, dividing or separating from the blessing we see in Rom 8.
V2, Free from the law of sin and death, [But not those who walk after the flesh],
V4, The meaning of, "The righteousness of the law", is, "Our legal rights", Those who walk in the Spirit can enjoy their legal rights, But not those who walk in the flesh.
So we need to find out what our legal rights are, and walk in the Spirit, and enjoy our rights in Christ.
V11, The Spirit that raised Christ from the dead lives in us, and will keep our bodies healthy. [But those who are walking in the flesh, will have condemnation within themselves, and wont have confidence in the blessings of God. 1 Jn 3: 21--22.

You can read the rest of the blessings that those who walk in the Spirit will have, in the rest of Rom 8.

Thank you for your personal opinions...We all have them...

Did you know that there are websites that say the apostle Paul was a false teacher? Apparently Paul's words "conflicted" with what Jesus said in the gospels.

 

[God4me]

Do you really think Jesus was confused when He quoted Psalm 22?

Jesus wasn't quoting Ps 22: it was David prophesying Jesus's deaths and what Jesus would say on the cross.

 

[Willie-T]

It seems you equate becoming sin with actual sinning. And yet, Jesus was sinless. Was this condition of sinlessness then changed as He hung on the cross? Serious question, just wondering what you believe... point two I cut because I think we agree already: Adam and Eve's awareness of evil came from their disobedience to God.

Do you mean you believe Jesus felt none of sin's effects from actually BECOMING sin..... which none of us who HAVE sinned ever had happen to us?

 

[Willie-T]

Jesus wasn't quoting Ps 22: it was David prophesying Jesus's deaths and what Jesus would say on the cross.

But Jesus quoted those words in PS 22, not only to fulfil that prophesy, but also to give His listeners hope.... People who knew THAT psalm, AND the following verses, by heart....... which were what the quoting of the Psalm at that moment, was all about, in the first place.

 

[Magenta]

Do you mean you believe Jesus felt none of sin's effects from actually BECOMING sin..... which none of us who HAVE sinned ever had happen to us?

I am making a distinction between becoming sin and actually sinning, just as there is a distinction between Jesus being tempted in all points just as we are and yet He never sinned. The question remains: do you think He sinned while on the cross, as the sins of the world fell upon Him, and He cried out to God? Did Jesus lose His faith at that moment?

 

[God4me]

I too tend to believe that Jesus was viewing God from our own human perspective here when He said "my God, My God..why have you forsaken Me? ".

This is the first time Jesus called His Father ..G"od" when talking to Him. After sin was all put on Him - He went back and called Him Father again. "Into your hands I commit My spirit".

Probably a lot more going on here then meets the casual eye. ...

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. A lot of mystery happening here that we are trying to figure out with our human minds.

Both the Hebrew meaning for, "My God,why has thou forsaken Me", Ps 22: 1.
And the Greek for "My God, why hath you forsaken me", Matt 27: 46.
Is,
"To forsake, To leave and to abandon".
And separation from God is, Spiritual death. Eph 2: 1, & v5, & v12.
Jesus took our sins, spiritual death, and hell, Acts 2: 27, & v31, So we can be born again, [Made spiritually alive],forgiven
and saved from hell.

 

[Willie-T]

I am making a distinction between becoming sin and actually sinning, just as there is a distinction between Jesus being tempted in all points just as we are and yet He never sinned. The question remains: do you think He sinned while on the cross, as the sins of the world fell upon Him, and He cried out to God? Did Jesus lose His faith at that moment?

Please don't start playing the "Ah-ha.. gottcha!!" games some of these guys do. I happen to think you are above that. You're not going to get me to say the sinless one sinned.

Just like you have never lost YOUR faith, Jesus never LOST His, but I certainly DO believe He experienced some of the same fears and doubts we experience from time to time. We place far too much Spirituality upon the Crucifixion scene. It was, first, and foremost, a painful death inflicted at the hands of murderous men... and it hurt Jesus just as much as it hurt any other man. So, too, I believe the Spiritual part of it affected Jesus just the same as sinning affects us. To believe that He just breezed right through the whole affair, humming some hymn, simply waiting for it to be over, diminishes the physical AND Spiritual agony Jesus went through.

As with His temptation... "Yes" He COULD be tempted. And the Bible says He WAS. He was not immune to the effects of actually BECOMING sin. That has to be far more than just merely "sinning."

 

[God4me]

Thank you for your personal opinions...We all have them...

Did you know that there are websites that say the apostle Paul was a false teacher? Apparently Paul's words "conflicted" with what Jesus said in the gospels.

If you knew the Bible and believed it, and you knew the Greek, You would know that it's not my own opinions, They are Biblical facts.
If you spent more time reading and believing what God says, Instead of what Joseph Prince says, You would learn the Biblical truths.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Amen..well said..with "security" comes "maturity" as with any relationship. Knowing that there is no condemnation in Christ allows us to access the empowering aspect of grace to effect changes to our outward behavior as our minds get renewed to the life that is in Christ in us.

Here is what I have been furiously thinking on for the last few minutes.
There's something more...some other aspect.
I was secure in the knowledge that I would never die. I believed it. I KNEW it. I would NOT pay for my sins with death.

But still, I was very stubborn about giving up my pride of life. Hidden resentments and angers were just a way of life for me. And even when He showed me what was in me, I just couldn't stop. Some might say I was just being willfully disobedient. But I think these enemies were just much stronger than me.

So after I came to the point where I knew this, He let me go on this way many months, with no victory over these enemies. I pleaded, with tears. I told Him I would rather die than to go on this way. Always sly, curt, terse remarks, meant to get even, even when I was completely odious to myself. Remarks meant to wound another and show my intellectual superiority in order to put them in their place for not being kind or unselfish to me. Hurt feelings (which He had shown me were just pride grieving at its' woundings). Not willful disobedience but often just rages that hit me before I could even THINK about trying to bite my tongue. An F5 that didn't WANT to be an F5.

And then He showed me that my motive for wanting to be good and virtuous was so that I would feel better about myself. Great, it just gets worse, never better. Now here was another awfulness in me that I was helpless to do anything about. I didn't want to be good to show Him to anyone who needed Him - I just wanted to feel good. So I renewed my efforts at prayer. Take me then. Kill me. If my lot is to be in such pain for the rest of my life and to be in such misery over what I am, please kill me because I don't want to be Your enemy. If you won't fix me and give me Your love for others so that I can die to all this in me, then please end me.

And then...I don't know...just a calm peace, a giving up, a determination to just wait patiently. After all the destruction I left in my wake, even though it wasn't my desire to do so, after all the tears, suddenly my soul was like a weaned child within me.

I have not had much to bother me too much since then. An occasional sly desire popping up to lash out when I am spoken bad of or treated not well, to which I quickly say, oh no you don't! Today, some time after all of this, I responded and loved in a way pleasing to my Lord to a wound inflicted on me by a family member. I was quite happy to not demand an apology or stick up for myself. No enemy troubled me whatsoever. They left and I said, aloud, (about...myself), who IS this person...?! WHERE has this person come from...?! This person is me but...not me.

Well, dang it all, I have lost what I was meaning to say...that there was some other aspect...but I don't know what it was...so sorry!

 

[God4me]

But Jesus quoted those words in PS 22, not only to fulfil that prophesy, but also to give His listeners hope.... People who knew THAT psalm, AND the following verses, by heart....... which were what the quoting of the Psalm at that moment, was all about, in the first place.

No Jesus didn't quote those words to fulfil the prophecy, But His words did fulfil David's prophecy.
Jesus said those words because God had left Him.
Jesus wouldn't have said such an important statement for no reason, just to fulfil a prophecy.

 

[Grace777x70]

If you knew the Bible and believed it, and you knew the Greek, You would know that it's not my own opinions, They are Biblical facts.
If you spent more time reading and believing what God says, Instead of what Joseph Prince says, You would learn the Biblical truths.

Isn't that what all the heretic hunters say..."these are not my own opinions. They are Biblical facts"

There are lot's of self-proclaimed heretic hunters on the internet. To them everyone is a heretic.

There are websites dedicated to the heretic Billy Graham. Billy Sunday, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Stanley, D.L. Moody, C.S. Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Joseph Prince, Bill Johnson, Martin Luther, John Calvin..etc..basically anyone who is known has a website dedicated to their "heresies"

There are even websites dedicated to the heretic apostle Paul because his epistles "conflict" with some of Jesus' words.

Basically these self-proclaimed heretic hunters have a beef about some thing with what someone else believes and so they are now "heretics". "If people don't believe the way that they do - they are heretics and they try to prove it with "their" version of what the scriptures say.."

It's the nature of the beast.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Oh I remember! It was to say that there is something MORE than just security that brings maturity. But I find I can't quite explain what that is...and I don't dare try again or I will write another book...

 

[Magenta]

Please don't start playing the "Ah-ha.. gottcha!!" games some of these guys do. I happen to think you are above that. You're not going to get me to say the sinless one sinned.

Please stop falsely accusing me. Your habit of doing that is disturbing. I am simply trying to better understand what you believe.

 

[God4me]

Isn't that what all the heretic hunters say..."these are not my own opinions. They are Biblical facts"

There are lot's of self-proclaimed heretic hunters on the internet. To them everyone is a heretic.

There are websites dedicated to the heretic Billy Graham. Billy Sunday, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Stanley, D.L. Moody, C.S. Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Joseph Prince, Bill Johnson, Martin Luther, John Calvin..etc..basically anyone who is known has a website dedicated to their "heresies"

There are even websites dedicated to the heretic apostle Paul because his epistles "conflict" with some of Jesus' words.

Basically these self-proclaimed heretic hunters have a beef about some thing with what someone else believes and so they are now "heretics". "If people don't believe the way that they do - they are heretics and they try to prove it with "their" version of what the scriptures say.."

It's the nature of the beast.

Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff.

You don't have to take my word for it, All you have to do, is read Rom 8, to see that I'm right.

 

[JustWhoIAm]

Adam and Eve's awareness of evil came from their disobedience to God.

Not saying I disagree, I don't, but that disobedience was rooted in deception - they took the bait. They were deceived. Then it snowballed.

Adam blamed the woman. Deception - failure to take accountability for disobedience.

Eve blamed the serpent. Same deal. "THE SERPENT DECEIVED ME."

Yes, there was condemnation there, but that condemnation was rooted in a lie... "I can shift blame to fool God because I know I screwed up but I do not want to take accountability for it."

 

[Willie-T]

No Jesus didn't quote those words to fulfil the prophecy, But His words did fulfil David's prophecy.
Jesus said those words because God had left Him.
Jesus wouldn't have said such an important statement for no reason, just to fulfil a prophecy.

I have to call you on that one. I think you already know the Bible says that God never left Jesus for an instant.

 

[royalscot]

The text says how they knew they were naked... the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked.

​It's best not to go beyond Scripture.

22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever---"Genesis 3

open to having an opinion, not open to enter in, and eat fruit that gives eternal life.

hence the, new covenant time frame, that let a believer of jesus a saviour , eat of the bread of life.

Institution of the Lord's Supper
22 And as they were eating, he took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to them, and said, "Take; this is my body."23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it.24 And he said to them, "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God."Mark 14

then pentecoste. etc to paul then to what paul wrote in romans 8 etc

half a story, is no story ,unless it has an ending. lol

 

[royalscot]

Luke 22

20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood