Lordship Salvation is false teaching

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I believe that accepting Him as your Lord and Savior means accepting His commandments, and that living against them can very much lead to you being denied by Him.

I dont understand why people chop that up to being "saved by works".

Lord Lawless Grace will not countenance any competitors.

 

[Nikki84]

It seems to me and this is my opinion, that these poor people have somehow been taught that the word work means self. It also appears they have been searching for a different Gospel that doesn't require anything after you say you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. The enemy is more than pleased to oblige these poor souls

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

The enemy is more than pleased to oblige these poor souls

I was once one of these people. I really liked the verse "no longer under law but under grace", sadly I did not know what that actually meant.

 

[Scriptureplz]

Knowing a tree by the fruit that it bears is "evidence" that the righteousness of Christ is working in you (not our own righteousness, but His). To ignore evil works as any kind of "evidence", or righteous works as any kind of "evidence" is to also ignore Jesus words of warning about being disobedient and sinful and knowing a tree by it's fruit, or lack thereof.

1 John 2:29
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

I guess it will be up to you to study how to reconcile the verses you have referenced with the ones I have.

"for I know WHOM I have believed, and am persuaded that HE is able to keep that which I have committed unto HIM against that day."

"The day" being the day I trusted Him as my Savior. "Lordship Salvation" is the idea that ANYTHING other than Faith can save you. We are saved by grace, which is no longer grace if you have not received it as a gift.

Everyone has the opportunity to be saved, but nowhere does the bible teach we are saved by obedience. In fact if you had read the scripture references I gave you would have seen that in Romans 10:1-5. But just keep ignoring it. It's your salvation at stake, not mine. All the glory is His in my mind, as He has already told me I have no righteousness.

I am obedient by choice, not necessity. Big difference. One means salvation, the other means remaining lost.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

but nowhere does the bible teach we are saved by obedience.

Sin leads to death.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Everyone has the opportunity to be saved, but nowhere does the bible teach we are saved by obedience. In fact if you had read the scripture references I gave you would have seen that in Romans 10:1-5. But just keep ignoring it. It's your salvation at stake, not mine. All the glory is His in my mind, as He has already told me I have no righteousness.

I am obedient by choice, not necessity. Big difference. One means salvation, the other means remaining lost.

False dichotomy. All obedience is by choice, and obedience means required. Obedience is conformity to another's will. And, yes, scripture does witness clearly that salvation apart from obedience is non-existent.

​“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21​

 

[Scriptureplz]

False dichotomy. All obedience is by choice, and obedience means required. Obedience is conformity to another's will. And, yes, scripture does witness clearly that salvation apart from obedience is non-existent.

​“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Matthew 7:21​

Explain these?


Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[Scriptureplz]

It seems to me and this is my opinion, that these poor people have somehow been taught that the word work means self. It also appears they have been searching for a different Gospel that doesn't require anything after you say you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. The enemy is more than pleased to oblige these poor souls

Explain these?

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[Grace777x70]

It seems to me and this is my opinion, that these poor people have somehow been taught that the word work means self. It also appears they have been searching for a different Gospel that doesn't require anything after you say you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. The enemy is more than pleased to oblige these poor souls

This may be true of some people but I have never heard anyone say this. In fact people that believe in the gospel of Christ are quick to say that we are saved unto good works.

It's the complete opposite of what you described above. Where the "conflict" arises is from the nature and origin of the work - self-effort or from the life of Christ.

Outwardly they look the same. Abraham tried to "do the will" of God in his won self-effort and created an Ishmael. God doesn't recognize our own efforts in the flesh even when trying to fulfill the words of God.

God told Abraham "Take your son, your only son...

Resting in the Lord is not a passive, lazy existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need in Christ and we access His wisdom, provision, strength, and protection by faith, we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active lifestyle.

Rest is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in the good works that God had planned for us all along.

Resting in Christ is our warfare....resting in Christ is our obedience to the faith......resting in Christ is our faith in action...

 

[Ariel82]

the problem with this approach is that it strips one of assurance. There is always the lingering thought, 'have I submitted enough?', 'have I committed enough?', was it genuine enough?'. No rest in that approach.

I don't think so. Its a moment when you give your whole life to God's control and stop trying to build your own castles or win your own salvation.

I believe everyone who has been born again have that moment in their life where they die to self.

Doubt is caused by many things but the concept of submitting to God should not cause it. The Holy Spirit affirms we are His children.

 

[Scriptureplz]

This may be true of some people but I have never heard anyone say this. In fact people that believe in the gospel of Christ are quick to say that we are saved unto good works.

It's the complete opposite of what you described above. Where the "conflict" arises is from the nature and origin of the work - self-effort or from the life of Christ.

Outwardly they look the same. Abraham tried to "do the will" of God in his won self-effort and created an Ishmael. God doesn't recognize our own efforts in the flesh even when trying to fulfill the words of God.

God told Abraham "Take your son, your only son...

Resting in the Lord is not a passive, lazy existence. When we know that God has already provided everything we need in Christ and we access His wisdom, provision, strength, and protection by faith, we'll be governed by the Holy Spirit in a highly strategic and active lifestyle.

Rest is not an inactive lifestyle. It's a Spirit-led lifestyle where we flow in the good works that God had planned for us all along.

Resting in Christ is our warfare....resting in Christ is our obedience to the faith......resting in Christ is our faith in action...

Amen! it is the works that He does through us AFTER we have been saved that brings glory to Him because they are done through our spirit which is born of God. This IS what the bible teaches, but some continue to make it about themselves, just like Cain did in the beginning. There is nothing new under the Son! People continue to try to bring God offerings of their own, when He told us in His Word He would have mercy and not sacrifice (Matt. 9:13).

Matthew 9:13 (KJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.




Hebrews 4:9-11 (KJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[JGIG]

There are websites for it and against it as usual with anything to do with the scriptures and people's beliefs and both sides are heretics to each other...

I found a balanced view on this subject. He talks about good intentions and the fact that the term "lordship salvation" is a good one - the rubber meets the road when we define what that means. This video is only 3 minutes long..


[video=youtube;msWsC0srUas]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msWsC0srUas[/video]

I've seen that video before - excellent thumbnail sketch. I really like how he notes that there are both Calvinist and Arminian arms of Lordship Salvation. Very accurate synopsis!

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

I guess it will be up to you to study how to reconcile the verses you have referenced with the ones I have.

"for I know WHOM I have believed, and am persuaded that HE is able to keep that which I have committed unto HIM against that day."

"The day" being the day I trusted Him as my Savior. "Lordship Salvation" is the idea that ANYTHING other than Faith can save you. We are saved by grace, which is no longer grace if you have not received it as a gift.

Everyone has the opportunity to be saved, but nowhere does the bible teach we are saved by obedience. In fact if you had read the scripture references I gave you would have seen that in Romans 10:1-5. But just keep ignoring it. It's your salvation at stake, not mine. All the glory is His in my mind, as He has already told me I have no righteousness.

I am obedient by choice, not necessity. Big difference. One means salvation, the other means remaining lost.

Sin leads to death.

Which is why, in Christ, God is no longer holding our sins against us:

18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. (from 2 Cor. 5)​

That's why belief in Christ is what saves us - because in Christ we have been reconciled to God, because all of our sins were dealt with at the Cross. We enter into that reconciliation by faith in Christ.

-JGIG

 

[ladylynn]

That's from the man who invented the term so it might be good to read also those who look at it from a different perspective.

That could be like asking Monsanto to give their views on whether chemicals they produce and used in our foods are ok.

Exactly! Our family was raised on JM and Lordship salvation. It is a very difficult way to be a Christian. If you don't burn out you can become the kind of Christian who looks and behaves as though you were baptized in vinegar or lemon juice. No sweetness / no light. Just a dreaded expectation of judgment for your failure in not being good enough. AND for all those unfortunate people who must be around you too for that matter.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Which is why, in Christ, God is no longer holding our sins against us:

18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. (from 2 Cor. 5)​

That's why belief in Christ is what saves us - because in Christ we have been reconciled to God, because all of our sins were dealt with at the Cross. We enter into that reconciliation by faith in Christ.

-JGIG

Then sin only leads to death for the unbeliever, and it is okay if we sin. Got it.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Explain these?


Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

So these verses override Matthew 7:21?

 

[crossnote]

I don't think so. Its a moment when you give your whole life to God's control and stop trying to build your own castles or win your own salvation.

I believe everyone who has been born again have that moment in their life where they die to self.

Doubt is caused by many things but the concept of submitting to God should not cause it. The Holy Spirit affirms we are His children.

Submitting to God does not cause it. That comes through sanctification.
The requirement that submission to God in order to have salvation will always leave open the door of 'have I submitted to God sufficiently?'. We learn to submit to His Lordship as we are being saved ...not to be saved.
Jesus doesn't come to us as Savior and then just sit down, if He truly comes in. Hope that clarifies it some.

 

[JGIG]

Which is why, in Christ, God is no longer holding our sins against us:

18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. (from 2 Cor. 5)​

That's why belief in Christ is what saves us - because in Christ we have been reconciled to God, because all of our sins were dealt with at the Cross. We enter into that reconciliation by faith in Christ.

-JGIG

Then sin only leads to death for the unbeliever, and it is okay if we sin. Got it.

What, then, shall we continue in sin? May it never be! No, Yeraza_Bats, it's not okay if we sin. Sinning is dumb and destructive. It does harm to ourselves and to those around us. The New Covenant Scriptures are chocked full of exhortations about how believers should behave.

But the only sin that will send anyone to hell is the sin of unbelief in Christ:

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. (from Jn. 3)​

-JGIG

 

[ladylynn]

One thing I hate about this debate is the unwillingness to accept certain bible verses. When someone posts warnings in the bible about turning to sin, you get the same "salvation is not by works" and "those who believe in Him shall not perish" verses in response. And those are important, too. But I dont know why people cant put them all together as one teaching.

Paul wrote in Galatians 2:21 that we do not nullify grace, that if righteousness were from the law, Christ died for nothing. But we are still warned to be watchful, and told that sin leads to death. I think the lesson is clear. Accept Him as your Lord and Savior, and obey His commandments. If we love Him, we will keep His commandments. But God is merciful, when we fall, we can come back to Him and repent again, and ask for help. If we continue to be faithful to Him, both in Him being our Lord and Savior, we are saved by His grace, as a gift and act of compassion and mercy. But that means we must submit to Him as our Lord, there is no room for ignoring His commandments.


Theres too much debating over which verses we should listen to, I think its all one teaching, and we should accept all of it.

"The Bible was written FOR us but not everything in the Bible is written TOO us." Some things were written specifically to the Jews who were on the fence when they had to make a choice either Jesus or the law. There are many other for instances we will see in the Bible but it takes reading and comparing Scripture with Scripture.

For reasons ONLY God knows., He wants us to sift through the Bible and find out exactly what He has said to us specifically. And to know the promises that are ours IN Christ. This takes faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross. I know that in order for me to be able to rightly divide the Word of truth., I must FIRST AND FOREMOST believe in what Jesus did for me. He loved me and gave His life for me. My sins are forgiven and I am IN Him based on Jesus not me.

If I interpret anything that says otherwise., it is a wrong interpretation. The message of reconciliation is the Good News it is the GOSPEL. It is what Jesus brought and what Jesus holds together. If we have to hold our salvation together., we are not trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ and His ability to RECONCILE us to God.

P.S. And... we will not be able to rightly give out the message of reconciliation if we don't know it ourselves. If we don't know the love of God ., we can't share it. We will be at a loss.

 

[Scriptureplz]

Explain these?

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

So these verses override Matthew 7:21?

The Matthew 7 scripture is about "false prophets", the verses I used describes believers. Have you ever actually read Matthew 7 or do you just quote select verses from it?

"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them" (vs20) is in direct reference to "Beware of false prophets" (vs15).

Since this may very well determine where you spend eternity, do you think it deserves a little more of your time?