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Jesus is not going to keep me from sinning?....WOW....am I stronger then Jesus' finished work? My goodness...it's no wonder people are genuinely concerned about you.
Matthew 1:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."
Romans 5:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.
Jude 1:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
Matthew 1:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."
Romans 5:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace.
Jude 1:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
Here are some more scriptures to help you understand the gospel. We have died with Christ and we were made alive in Christ. It's His life in us that we live by now.
I can see when you said that you believe people are not born again until they have new bodies is messing you up from understanding the gospel of the grace of Christ for salvation.
Can you not see why some are really concerned about you?
Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,
[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
Our whole Christian life is dependent on what Christ has done for us. He has freed us from all sin. We must believe in what Christ has done for us.
Romans 6:5-7 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.
S
You know, at some point people should start recognizing the scripture references given.
Just to add a few more...
Hebrews 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
1 Peter 1:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Timothy 4:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Just to add a few more...
Hebrews 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
1 Peter 1:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Timothy 4:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
D
I think it's the definition of being saved by works. If you can obtain eternal life and then lose it by not being good enough, it mocks the cross.
I like Romans 4. Faith is credited as righteousness. Can you spend up that righteousness and empty your account? If you can, then I'm broke.
I like Romans 4. Faith is credited as righteousness. Can you spend up that righteousness and empty your account? If you can, then I'm broke.
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“‘Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:31
But if those who are unclean do not purify themselves, they must be cut off from the community, because they have defiled the sanctuary of the Lord.
Numbers 19:20
Sin defiles holiness. You do not maintain holiness, you loose it from defilement.
What defiles people?
“What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”
Mark 7:20-23
How can the Holy Spirit dwell in a person defiled by sin and continually sinning, consciously and in rebellion again God himself.
But this is what exactly hyper-grace people are claiming. They cannot go 24hrs without sinning.
And they claim to follow a holy God with clean pure hearts. Sounds more like their hearts are not clean, and they only have the superficial impression of belief and following Christ. We are not talking here of a minor issue once a month or every half year, but continual failure and problems. Either this defilement is substantial or it is hyper-legalism. None of these people could ever be a priest in the temple on this basis. And they claim to be superior to the "legalists" than these faithful priests in the temple ministry of sacrifice.
Leviticus 19:31
But if those who are unclean do not purify themselves, they must be cut off from the community, because they have defiled the sanctuary of the Lord.
Numbers 19:20
Sin defiles holiness. You do not maintain holiness, you loose it from defilement.
What defiles people?
“What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”
Mark 7:20-23
How can the Holy Spirit dwell in a person defiled by sin and continually sinning, consciously and in rebellion again God himself.
But this is what exactly hyper-grace people are claiming. They cannot go 24hrs without sinning.
And they claim to follow a holy God with clean pure hearts. Sounds more like their hearts are not clean, and they only have the superficial impression of belief and following Christ. We are not talking here of a minor issue once a month or every half year, but continual failure and problems. Either this defilement is substantial or it is hyper-legalism. None of these people could ever be a priest in the temple on this basis. And they claim to be superior to the "legalists" than these faithful priests in the temple ministry of sacrifice.
Interesting... Isn't the character of the new man that since we have been cleansed from our past sins and born of light, we need to walk in that light? Isn't submitting ourselves to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ by walking in the ways of God and not of man part of our Sanctification process which has the end result of Glorification?
Is not part of our Justification dying to self and the world, accepting Christ's sacrifice on the cross and resurrection, and repenting for a life lived outside of Christ?
This is the reason why Paul exhorted the believers in churches at Corinth to repent/turn from the sins and lusts they were operating in and back to the will of God. A believer is warned adamantly by God Himself through the Holy Scriptures to not return back to the life they once lived in, and walk worthy of the Lord as the new man in Jesus Christ. If we find ourselves being led away from His will and ways, we repent and return back to Him, and He who is our Mediator and Advocate is good to forgive! How abundant is this grace that He has for us to abide in!
So what is Lordship Salvation? I first heard of Lordship Salvation a year ago, and am still confused as to what it exactly is. Perhaps we need a good in depth analysis of Lordship Salvation. We do need to remember that if there is a little leaven, it leavens the whole lump.
Is not part of our Justification dying to self and the world, accepting Christ's sacrifice on the cross and resurrection, and repenting for a life lived outside of Christ?
This is the reason why Paul exhorted the believers in churches at Corinth to repent/turn from the sins and lusts they were operating in and back to the will of God. A believer is warned adamantly by God Himself through the Holy Scriptures to not return back to the life they once lived in, and walk worthy of the Lord as the new man in Jesus Christ. If we find ourselves being led away from His will and ways, we repent and return back to Him, and He who is our Mediator and Advocate is good to forgive! How abundant is this grace that He has for us to abide in!
So what is Lordship Salvation? I first heard of Lordship Salvation a year ago, and am still confused as to what it exactly is. Perhaps we need a good in depth analysis of Lordship Salvation. We do need to remember that if there is a little leaven, it leavens the whole lump.
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R
many people in this thread have been defending 'lordship salvation' solely based on its definition...the problem with this is that lordship salvation's errors are not so much found in the theory but in the practice...
after all of the theological arguments have been made and all of the scripture verses have been quoted...the lordship salvation teachers still have to lead a church and preach sermons...and this is where the problems begin to show themselves...
lordship salvation in practice tends to be a very 'teacher centric' system...the lordship salvation teacher either explicitly or implicitly sets forth their own personal standard for what proper progress in the process of sanctification looks like...and they encourage or berate their members and other targets based on their adherence to the teacher's standards...
those who fail to meet the standard set by the lordship salvation teacher or by other vocal lordship salvation proponents are left in constant doubt about their own salvation...much like martin luther as a monk who was never sure if he had been righteous enough to satisfy God... on the other hand those who do meet the standards set by the teacher usually end up smugly looking down on everyone else...
after all of the theological arguments have been made and all of the scripture verses have been quoted...the lordship salvation teachers still have to lead a church and preach sermons...and this is where the problems begin to show themselves...
lordship salvation in practice tends to be a very 'teacher centric' system...the lordship salvation teacher either explicitly or implicitly sets forth their own personal standard for what proper progress in the process of sanctification looks like...and they encourage or berate their members and other targets based on their adherence to the teacher's standards...
those who fail to meet the standard set by the lordship salvation teacher or by other vocal lordship salvation proponents are left in constant doubt about their own salvation...much like martin luther as a monk who was never sure if he had been righteous enough to satisfy God... on the other hand those who do meet the standards set by the teacher usually end up smugly looking down on everyone else...
L
Good Heavens!! "The God is love mentality is dangerous.....(ARGGGG) when not balanced with the King, Lord and judge side of who He is..." Oh HisHolly., ...the problem is people are like Adam and Eve were., they do not believe the goodness and love of God. I cringe when I read words like you posted here because I remember so vividly saying the same thing and how right it seemed at the time but how deadly it seriously is. Not believing God's love for me in Christ sent me right into the jaws of the enemy.
Jesus took care of the Judgment part when He went to the cross. All judgment and wrath was put on Jesus. God's justice and righteous requirements were 100% fully met and paid for in the only way it could be. By the Son.
God sooo loved the world that He gave. God's love-Grace gives unconditionally and when we are loved that way we are motivated to do what pleases the one who loves us. The love of God constrains us and empowers us. It will never lead us astray. It's the lack of knowing God loves us that WILL however lead us astray like it did with Adam and Eve.
S
♦ Lordship “salvation” Defined
By the ExPreacherMan Administrators
God’s Word clearly states that salvation is by Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Ephesians 2:8-9: [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Lordship “salvation” (LS) is the unsupportable and unbiblical belief that the PERFORMANCE of good works, the PROMISE of good works, or the EVIDENCE of good works MUST accompany faith in Christ in order to establish, or provide evidence, that such faith has resulted in eternal life.
LS can be overt (one must forsake all of his sins and follow Christ in obedience and discipleship in order to be saved) or VERY SUBTLE (one’s behavior will change once he is saved, one must desire to get better in order to be saved, one must want to have a relationship with Jesus in order to be saved, or one must go beyond mere intellectual assent and actively respond – do something (such as Rahab opening the door to spies, or Abraham offering Isaac on the altar) in response to God’s message in order to be saved).
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that any of these man-made conditions are necessary for one to receive eternal life. And yet, such things are taught by many churches, ministries, and pastors throughout professing Christendom.
We expose the people who promote LS, because they:
• Keep people lost (Luke 8-12; 2 Corinthians 4:4);
• Are accursed (Galatians 1:9);
• Frustrate grace (Galatians 2:21);
• Bewitch believers, rendering the believers ineffective in their Christian lives (Galatians 5:4); and
• Are to be marked and avoided (Romans 16:17 and 16:18)
In addition to the above, LS causes people to focus on themselves, rather than on Christ, for assurance of salvation.• Are accursed (Galatians 1:9);
• Frustrate grace (Galatians 2:21);
• Bewitch believers, rendering the believers ineffective in their Christian lives (Galatians 5:4); and
• Are to be marked and avoided (Romans 16:17 and 16:18)
We cannot know whether or not someone influenced by LS is saved. In some cases, they may have never even heard the Gospel presented clearly, and may have never believed in Jesus as their Savior. In other cases, they may have believed in Jesus as their Savior, but have received bad teaching that causes them ongoing confusion. We cannot tell which is which. But, in any case, they need our prayers and they need a clear presentation of the gospel.
One wonders why so many thousands of seeking souls flock to the false message of LS. Could it be a cultic draw by charismatic personalities who manipulate scripture, relish the attention, fame and (incidentally) the dollars cleverly conned from their followers?
Or, could it be that they walk into the nearest church, and they are sold a false LS gospel? After all, people naturally want to trust authority figures. In either case, the person who is fed false LS teaching is being steered away from the truth.
Although this list is by no means complete, following are some of the terms that are associated with Lordship salvation as being requirements for receiving eternal life:
“Repent of your sins”
“Turn from your sins”
“Be willing to turn from your sins”
“Put Christ on the throne of your life”
“Give your life to Christ”
“Commit to follow Christ”
Some proponents of Lordship salvation will allow that salvation is by Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, but then will insist that a saved person will show signs of being saved, such as sinning less and doing good works. If these “signs” are not present, they will insist, or at least heavily suspect, that a person has never believed in Christ as Savior.
This thought process can never lead to assurance of salvation, because it is always dependent on how one thinks he is DOING at any given point in time (we put DOING in all caps, because it is a work). Other folks think that God knows whether or not they are TRYING (we put TRYING in all caps, because it is a work). Trying will not help you attain eternal life. Eternal life is a free gift, received when someone trusts in Christ alone for it.
If you think you may be under the influence of LS, and would like to read a clear presentation of the gospel, click here: The Gospel
https://expreacherman.com/♦-lordship-salvation-defined/
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
God gets the glory for us being saved,but I believe we have the choice whether to allow the Spirit to lead us,or not,making secure salvation not applicable unless you allow the Spirit to lead you,but we see according to the Bible all do not do that.
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
God gets the glory for us being saved,but I believe we have the choice whether to allow the Spirit to lead us,or not,making secure salvation not applicable unless you allow the Spirit to lead you,but we see according to the Bible all do not do that.
Hyper grace folks just don't understand how defilement separates one from GOD (the OP is maximum hyper grace, btw). And why should they? Their whole doctrine is built on the foundation that sin is not an issue. All they have to do is focus on who they (think they) are and GOD automatically takes care of everything. Sin and defilement don't matter because it's done in the flesh; the spirit is the only thing that matters to them, just like the gnostics. How surprised they are going to be when the lord corrects them.
A
Quote from article....
" Grace is not a liberal clemency or a passive indulgence that simply tolerates and coexists with sin. Divine grace doesn't guarantee heaven in the afterlife while merely overlooking the evils of this life. Authentic grace is the undeserved favor of God toward sinners, delivering them from the power as well as the penalty of sin (Romans 6:14). Grace is dynamic, "teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age" (Titus 2:12).
" Grace is not a liberal clemency or a passive indulgence that simply tolerates and coexists with sin. Divine grace doesn't guarantee heaven in the afterlife while merely overlooking the evils of this life. Authentic grace is the undeserved favor of God toward sinners, delivering them from the power as well as the penalty of sin (Romans 6:14). Grace is dynamic, "teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age" (Titus 2:12).