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A
The straw man is your false representation of what lordship salvation teaches and your words just prove you don't know how to listen or anything I believe.
I am not trying to debate you, I just wanted to know what you are trying to communicate.
You don't have to talk to me, but I can still state when you aren't making sense or falsely representing something.
read them, you read the ones on repentance I posted?
Judas wasn't a believer.
I don't understand how people can believe in Christ yet chose not to follow Him.
That is called repentance and the Bible teaches people needs to Repent.
only if you don't understand what repentance is.
You don't "trust in your discipleship" or trust in your repentance. You repent and trust in Jesus work on the cross to redeem you of your sins. The Holy Spirit assures your soul that you are God's child and teaches you how to break free of the chains and lies of sin.
Trust is always in God and His work.
I am not trying to debate you, I just wanted to know what you are trying to communicate.
You don't have to talk to me, but I can still state when you aren't making sense or falsely representing something.
read them, you read the ones on repentance I posted?
Judas wasn't a believer.
I don't understand how people can believe in Christ yet chose not to follow Him.
That is called repentance and the Bible teaches people needs to Repent.
only if you don't understand what repentance is.
You don't "trust in your discipleship" or trust in your repentance. You repent and trust in Jesus work on the cross to redeem you of your sins. The Holy Spirit assures your soul that you are God's child and teaches you how to break free of the chains and lies of sin.
Trust is always in God and His work.
S
"By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God." Romans 5:2
We "stand" because of His grace! We would have no standing with Him at all if not for His grace. We would ALL be lost with no hope at all but instead we "rejoice" in the hope He gives us!
There are those that teach we should place our hope in "turning from sin", which is a placebo of hope, because it adds our input. They might as well say "keep the law", because it's the same thing. It is no longer just by His blood, but our obedience as well.
We "stand" because of His grace! We would have no standing with Him at all if not for His grace. We would ALL be lost with no hope at all but instead we "rejoice" in the hope He gives us!
There are those that teach we should place our hope in "turning from sin", which is a placebo of hope, because it adds our input. They might as well say "keep the law", because it's the same thing. It is no longer just by His blood, but our obedience as well.
A
Another straw man (aka false representation of others beliefs to justify the person's position instead of actually addressing what is said or presented)
Have fun burning this one too.
Our faith is placed in Christ work on the cross for the remission of sin.
Repentance and acceptance of Christ lordship is part of placing our faith in Christ redeeming work. Even that is done by the moving of the Holy Spirit in our hearts and lives to show us that we need of a savior and how doing things our way instead of God's is sinful.
Have fun burning this one too.
Our faith is placed in Christ work on the cross for the remission of sin.
Repentance and acceptance of Christ lordship is part of placing our faith in Christ redeeming work. Even that is done by the moving of the Holy Spirit in our hearts and lives to show us that we need of a savior and how doing things our way instead of God's is sinful.
S
[h=1]Matthew 9:12-13 (KJV)[/h] [SUP]12 [/SUP]But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Their repentance was the "change of mind" they needed to have about their own righteousness. They did not understand they were sinners too. They had made an idol out of law keeping (which they were not keeping anyway) and customs. This idol is what they had to repent (change their thinking) about.
It is not our sin that keeps us from being reconciled with God, it is unbelief. Christ died for us "while we were yet sinners". It is not our sin, He knows we cannot be without sin. Of course He wants us to obey Him, and when we understand His grace we want to, but it is not nor has it ever been obedience that saved anyone. Only faith in the gospel as Romans 5:1 clearly says.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Their repentance was the "change of mind" they needed to have about their own righteousness. They did not understand they were sinners too. They had made an idol out of law keeping (which they were not keeping anyway) and customs. This idol is what they had to repent (change their thinking) about.
It is not our sin that keeps us from being reconciled with God, it is unbelief. Christ died for us "while we were yet sinners". It is not our sin, He knows we cannot be without sin. Of course He wants us to obey Him, and when we understand His grace we want to, but it is not nor has it ever been obedience that saved anyone. Only faith in the gospel as Romans 5:1 clearly says.
S
Being taught a lie doesn't make it the truth! If anyone believes this false gospel of LS, pick your bible up and try to prove it by Gods Word. Since where you will spend your eternity might be involved, I would think you would be eager to check the scripture, not argue with me over it.
All I am asking anyone to do is read the scripture and quit ignoring it! If you don't want to do that, fine!
All I am asking anyone to do is read the scripture and quit ignoring it! If you don't want to do that, fine!
S
Romans 4:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Obedience does save us. Obedience to the faith which is believing gin Jesus - God's Son who died for us and took away our sins. Lordship salvationists add other "works" - their works in order to be saved.
Romans 1:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Romans 16:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
Romans 1:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Romans 16:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.
S
[h=1]Romans 4:12-13 (KJV)[/h] [SUP]12 [/SUP]And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
As you may recall, I have been saying read chapters 3-5 of Romans all through this discussion.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
As you may recall, I have been saying read chapters 3-5 of Romans all through this discussion.
S
Obviously there are two teachings here. Both teachings cannot be correct. Maybe it is a good idea to listen to a different teacher than whoever has been teaching you to see both sides of this issue. I have already done that which is why I am trying to show the falsehood of this.
The person teaching this verse by verse study of Galatians will open some eyes to the truth of Gods word should you choose to listen to Him. There are 18 parts and he thoroughly covers all of Galatians with excellent teaching. Just in case you want to spend a little time understanding why LS is false. I hope you will listen to all of these as you can. I am on message 14 and you can skip around if you want by clicking on the arrows in the rectangular box below the title of each message.
Galatians, part 1 | SermonAudio.com
The person teaching this verse by verse study of Galatians will open some eyes to the truth of Gods word should you choose to listen to Him. There are 18 parts and he thoroughly covers all of Galatians with excellent teaching. Just in case you want to spend a little time understanding why LS is false. I hope you will listen to all of these as you can. I am on message 14 and you can skip around if you want by clicking on the arrows in the rectangular box below the title of each message.
Galatians, part 1 | SermonAudio.com
There are tons of them on the web however maybe this video in the post below will help as it is only a few minutes long. There are actually 2 kinds of Lordship salvation mindsets - Armenian and Calvinistic. It is in post #10 below.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...hip-salvation-false-teaching.html#post2669835
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...hip-salvation-false-teaching.html#post2669835
S
S
Romans 5 (KJV)
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
[SUP]13 [/SUP](For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
[SUP]13 [/SUP](For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.