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A
Your message is kind of, long winded and side winding.
None of the scriptures you post address He Rose true concern about rather you truly understand God's sanctifying work in the lives of believers. Its just goes back to milk without talking about the meat.
Don't worry you don't have to respond, but just answering why your message might not be favorably received.
None of the scriptures you post address He Rose true concern about rather you truly understand God's sanctifying work in the lives of believers. Its just goes back to milk without talking about the meat.
Don't worry you don't have to respond, but just answering why your message might not be favorably received.
Amen Dan!
I think what throws well-intentioned works-based mindsets into a tail-spin- is this "salvation thing".
I believe we have to differentiate between "going to heaven to be with the Lord " salvation and - "being saved from the things that can destroy us here while being on this earth."
We can inherit now in this life things that are of the kingdom of God because the kingdom of God is within us...however if we don't have our minds renewed to the truth in Christ ( which includes living by the Spirit within us ) - we can not experience the things of the kingdom that are available to us believers.
Scripture uses the same Greek word - " salvation, saved " = wholeness, preservation, keep safe, deliverance, make well - for both being saved from things in this life and for going to be with the Lord for eternity.
If we don't understand this difference we will continually be mis-applying scriptures that talk about "being saved here in this life from things" and "going to be with the Lord".
There is eternal salvation and there is salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and you end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.
Jesus is either your Savior for going to be in heaven with Him or you are your own savior by helping Him. One is by grace through faith - the other is works-righteousness.
I think what throws well-intentioned works-based mindsets into a tail-spin- is this "salvation thing".
I believe we have to differentiate between "going to heaven to be with the Lord " salvation and - "being saved from the things that can destroy us here while being on this earth."
We can inherit now in this life things that are of the kingdom of God because the kingdom of God is within us...however if we don't have our minds renewed to the truth in Christ ( which includes living by the Spirit within us ) - we can not experience the things of the kingdom that are available to us believers.
Scripture uses the same Greek word - " salvation, saved " = wholeness, preservation, keep safe, deliverance, make well - for both being saved from things in this life and for going to be with the Lord for eternity.
If we don't understand this difference we will continually be mis-applying scriptures that talk about "being saved here in this life from things" and "going to be with the Lord".
There is eternal salvation and there is salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and you end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.
Jesus is either your Savior for going to be in heaven with Him or you are your own savior by helping Him. One is by grace through faith - the other is works-righteousness.
T
Justification is a legal term and, in fact, Paul uses it explain exactly what salvation is.
Justification is imputed righteousness only in the context of grace:
Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”[d]) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.”[e] 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[f]
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. (Rom 4:16-25)
Justification is imputed righteousness only in the context of grace:
Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”[d]) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.”[e] 19 And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. 20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[f]
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification. (Rom 4:16-25)
You were sanctified (made holy) the moment you received the holy spirit. That is what makes us holy.
What kind of effort? Whatever it takes (that's between you and the spirit), but let's start here (remember, saving faith does).
What kind of effort? Whatever it takes (that's between you and the spirit), but let's start here (remember, saving faith does).
This is the work of God: that you believe into the one [the father] set apart. John 6:29
Maybe a better term would be 2 manifestations of salvation...one in this life and one for going to heaven....
I'm sure you know the difference. If you were to suddenly take up shooting heroin - your life here in this earth would go drastically down-hill...but when you died ( which might be very quick with the heroin use ) - you would be saved and would be in heaven because of the grace of God in Christ.
I'm sure you know the difference. If you were to suddenly take up shooting heroin - your life here in this earth would go drastically down-hill...but when you died ( which might be very quick with the heroin use ) - you would be saved and would be in heaven because of the grace of God in Christ.
This language is like saying marriage is about two things, living together until one of you die and getting on with each other today in love.
The idea that things could get mixed up is just confused thinking. We are called to walk with Jesus in the same way we will in heaven, without sinning. Jesus called this following perfect, but this is not perfect in our terms but His.
We are called not to worry about tomorrow, but concentrate on today. It would appear if you accept you sin continuously, daily, without break, and your mission is to concentrate on your perfect new heart, these ideas start to make sense in this belief system. Ofcourse the difference between being with the Lord and today are like night and day, failure and success.
But this is not the language of Paul or Jesus. Rather their language is about victory. Building your house upon the rock, walking as holy, pure, blameless children of God. Rather than fault or failure, this is the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.
But the opposition say, it is just self-righteousness so evil, even when it is Jesus's work in our hearts which has transformed us into His people. Though Paul says we need to acknowledge this good work done in us, the reflection of Christ in our actions, they would rather talk condemnation and failure, defeat and hypocracy, even when there is none. Now that is confusion.
The idea that things could get mixed up is just confused thinking. We are called to walk with Jesus in the same way we will in heaven, without sinning. Jesus called this following perfect, but this is not perfect in our terms but His.
We are called not to worry about tomorrow, but concentrate on today. It would appear if you accept you sin continuously, daily, without break, and your mission is to concentrate on your perfect new heart, these ideas start to make sense in this belief system. Ofcourse the difference between being with the Lord and today are like night and day, failure and success.
But this is not the language of Paul or Jesus. Rather their language is about victory. Building your house upon the rock, walking as holy, pure, blameless children of God. Rather than fault or failure, this is the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.
But the opposition say, it is just self-righteousness so evil, even when it is Jesus's work in our hearts which has transformed us into His people. Though Paul says we need to acknowledge this good work done in us, the reflection of Christ in our actions, they would rather talk condemnation and failure, defeat and hypocracy, even when there is none. Now that is confusion.
It is written, GOD will be just and the JUSTIFIER of all whose faith is in HIS SON...
There are many who "go out" from THE TRUTH that it is because of CHRIST that we are JUSTIFIED in the sight of GOD...
and Paul even talks about those who have "pierced themselves"...
John's understanding is from the SPIRIT of TRUTH because it makes sense that those who "go out from us" make manifest that they were NEVER with us...because if they had begun in what they should have begun in, they never would go out, understanding their GREAT SALVATION is in, by and through CHRIST and HIM alone...
We are washed (by HIS BLOOD) we are justified (in the sight of GOD through our faith in HIS BLOOD) and we appear "righteous" because of HIS BLOOD...but it is only because of HIS ROYAL ROBES of RIGHTEOUSNESS, HIS COVERING that we appear "righteous"...Apart from HIS COVERING,there isn't THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of GOD...and even Paul said, he wanted to be found IN HIM, not professing a "righteousness" apart from HIM.
Sanctification...I have come to understand in personal experiences in my walk is to be still and know that HE is GOD in all situations and circumstances. That all things are under HIS SOVEREIGN CONTROL...and therefore nothing is out of HIS SOVEREIGN CONTROL...and it is during these times that all I can "DO" is pray and wait...
I do believe GOD is doing a work in all our lives...this purifying, this laundering...it isn't pleasant, but the result is pure and holy and unbiased and impartial righteousness...
And that also is not of ourselves, not something that we can declare is "ours"...it is HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS made manifest in us...
Mortality has to be swallowed up in immortality...and even Paul said I fill up in my flesh what is lacking of the afflictions of CHRIST.
This is NOT an ACTIVE WORK as much as it is a PASSIVE WORK...which is why I said...I have come to understand that the "work" required of us is to REMAIN in HIM, not to "go out" from HIM, but to be still and know that HE is GOD...in all situations and circumstances...good (when it is easy to have faith and listen) and bad (when it isn't so easy to have faith and listen)....
Both "seasons" we are to be still and trust in HIS SOVEREIGN CONTROL...
There are many who "go out" from THE TRUTH that it is because of CHRIST that we are JUSTIFIED in the sight of GOD...
and Paul even talks about those who have "pierced themselves"...
John's understanding is from the SPIRIT of TRUTH because it makes sense that those who "go out from us" make manifest that they were NEVER with us...because if they had begun in what they should have begun in, they never would go out, understanding their GREAT SALVATION is in, by and through CHRIST and HIM alone...
We are washed (by HIS BLOOD) we are justified (in the sight of GOD through our faith in HIS BLOOD) and we appear "righteous" because of HIS BLOOD...but it is only because of HIS ROYAL ROBES of RIGHTEOUSNESS, HIS COVERING that we appear "righteous"...Apart from HIS COVERING,there isn't THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of GOD...and even Paul said, he wanted to be found IN HIM, not professing a "righteousness" apart from HIM.
Sanctification...I have come to understand in personal experiences in my walk is to be still and know that HE is GOD in all situations and circumstances. That all things are under HIS SOVEREIGN CONTROL...and therefore nothing is out of HIS SOVEREIGN CONTROL...and it is during these times that all I can "DO" is pray and wait...
I do believe GOD is doing a work in all our lives...this purifying, this laundering...it isn't pleasant, but the result is pure and holy and unbiased and impartial righteousness...
And that also is not of ourselves, not something that we can declare is "ours"...it is HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS made manifest in us...
Mortality has to be swallowed up in immortality...and even Paul said I fill up in my flesh what is lacking of the afflictions of CHRIST.
This is NOT an ACTIVE WORK as much as it is a PASSIVE WORK...which is why I said...I have come to understand that the "work" required of us is to REMAIN in HIM, not to "go out" from HIM, but to be still and know that HE is GOD...in all situations and circumstances...good (when it is easy to have faith and listen) and bad (when it isn't so easy to have faith and listen)....
Both "seasons" we are to be still and trust in HIS SOVEREIGN CONTROL...
We are justified and sanctified when we believe the gospel. Salvation is abiding in Christ. That requires faith and effort on our part. I like to call that progressing sanctification. In other words, as we grow we abide in our sanctification.
There is a "working out" of the holiness that is already ours in Christ that will reflect in our outward behavior as we grow in the Lord.
I know what you mean though - to the works-based mindset - this is how you get saved and make sure you will always be saved for going to heaven and it is opposed to the real gospel of Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
Acts 20:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. ( perfect tense - a completed work in our spirit - and it is passive = it was put on us - not something we did )
Same thing here spoken by the Lord Himself to Paul.
Acts 26:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'
( have been sanctified = perfect tense - a completed work in our spirit - and it is passive = it was put on us - not something we did )