And that folks is salvation by works plain and simple. 
because that Is how the person knows that they have went Into error Instead of the correct way.
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I believe he Is sincere In what he believes but I wish he would recognize that GOD Is not the author of confusion and that the scripture that he uses to buttress his Interpretation should also harmonize with the scriptures we use to buttress our Interpretations,
because that Is how the person knows that they have went Into error Instead of the correct way.
because that Is how the person knows that they have went Into error Instead of the correct way.
Not gonna read 19 pages just to post sumthin.....no, no, no.
Romans 6:12-17 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. [SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? [SUP]17 [/SUP]But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Mark 9:35 (KJV)
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.
[HR][/HR]Mark 10:44 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
[HR][/HR]Luke 12:37 (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
[HR][/HR]Luke 12:47 (KJV)
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
[HR][/HR]Luke 16:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
[HR][/HR]John 12:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
[HR][/HR]John 13:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
[HR][/HR]Acts 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
[HR][/HR]Romans 1:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
[HR][/HR]Romans 6:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
[HR][/HR]Romans 6:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
[HR][/HR]Romans 6:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
[HR][/HR]1 Corinthians 7:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
Imagine..... DOZENS of scriptures about being servants, but having no Lord? You can't have it both ways.....
How can Jesus be Lord & have no lordship?
Romans 6:12-17 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. [SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? [SUP]17 [/SUP]But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Mark 9:35 (KJV)
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.
[HR][/HR]Mark 10:44 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
[HR][/HR]Luke 12:37 (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
[HR][/HR]Luke 12:47 (KJV)
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
[HR][/HR]Luke 16:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
[HR][/HR]John 12:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
[HR][/HR]John 13:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
[HR][/HR]Acts 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
[HR][/HR]Romans 1:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
[HR][/HR]Romans 6:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
[HR][/HR]Romans 6:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
[HR][/HR]Romans 6:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
[HR][/HR]1 Corinthians 7:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
Imagine..... DOZENS of scriptures about being servants, but having no Lord? You can't have it both ways.....
How can Jesus be Lord & have no lordship?
Grace777x70 posted a video that may help Illuminate this subject "Lordship Salvation."
This video Is 3 minutes long.
This video Is 3 minutes long.
There are websites for it and against it as usual with anything to do with the scriptures and people's beliefs and both sides are heretics to each other...
I found a balanced view on this subject. He talks about good intentions and the fact that the term "lordship salvation" is a good one - the rubber meets the road when we define what that means. This video is only 3 minutes long..
[video=youtube;msWsC0srUas]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msWsC0srUas[/video]
I found a balanced view on this subject. He talks about good intentions and the fact that the term "lordship salvation" is a good one - the rubber meets the road when we define what that means. This video is only 3 minutes long..
[video=youtube;msWsC0srUas]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msWsC0srUas[/video]
A
It is a very bias video, but most videos are
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFED04EBD441A91FD
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFED04EBD441A91FD
That's a new one - I have never heard any grace teacher say...."salvation is mental assent to Jesus as the Messiah."
I have always heard it is with the heart man believes as in Romans 10.
I have listened to over a thousand different message from many different teachers from many different theological backgrounds and training and never heard anyone say " salvation is mental assent to Jesus as the Messiah ".
But I have not heard everyone in the world so it is possible some people may say that.
I have always heard it is with the heart man believes as in Romans 10.
I have listened to over a thousand different message from many different teachers from many different theological backgrounds and training and never heard anyone say " salvation is mental assent to Jesus as the Messiah ".
But I have not heard everyone in the world so it is possible some people may say that.
Amen! It is with the heart (and not merely with the head/mental assent belief) that man believes unto righteousness (Romans 10:10). In James 2:19, the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. That is accomplished with the heart.
And that folks is salvation by works plain and simple.
LOL...and as you can see...we are back to the different views of salvation again. All videos are biased in seems to the other person. It's the very nature of the beast....
If a speaker appeals to the audience emotionally, it does not make their proposition correct or truthful etc. It is why propoganda works. The only way we can hold sense of validity is being pure and righteous, so we do not have planks in our own viewpoint.
Here we already have a problem. I may claim purity and righteousness while the opposition say I am a hypocritical liar, denying sin they would point out but cannot quantify, while they confess they sin daily and say all humans are lost , even with Christ to walk in purity and righteousness.
This is the split, which is unresolvable because it relies on definitions. A key description or difference is how they regard Moses, Abraham, Elijah. To them these are not righteous people, but liars, sinners, failed legalists. The key light is they are harder than God is, and make the gospel another faith from Gods interaction with man from the beginning of time.
Basically what Lordship Salvation says is after we have receive Salvation we need to follow Jesus and do what He wants us to do. In other words we need to show proof by our deeds we have received Salvation.
Here is an example of mental assent to Jesus.
Matthew 7:21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
Here is an example of mental assent to Jesus.
Matthew 7:21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’
When you say free grace doctrine would you be referring to the scripture In
Romans 5:6-9
King James Version(KJV)
6.)For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7.)For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8.)But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9.)Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
+++
I would say that,that IS free grace.
Romans 5:6-9
King James Version(KJV)
6.)For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7.)For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8.)But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9.)Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
+++
I would say that,that IS free grace.
Video is by Grace Evangelical Society, which is dedicated to Free Grace doctrine. In fact, Lordship Salvation doctrine arose as a response to lawless Free Grace doctrine. By lawless I mean that salvation requires nothing but mental assent to Jesus as messiah.
Amen!...imagine grace being free?...what will those ( supposedly ) "lawless" grace believers say next?
Romans 5:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.
Romans 6:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 7:3-4
So then if, while the husband liveth, she be joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if the husband die, she is free from the law, so that she is no adulteress, though she be joined to another man.
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also were made dead to the law through the body of Christ; that ye should be joined to another, even to him who was raised from the dead, that we might bring forth fruit unto God.
so you want us to break free from the Law through Christ's death and marry Him and then divorce Him and come under the Law again?
Free Grace tells me I am married to Christ for ever, but being married to Him I am responsible to be obedient to Him, as a wife is to her husband
So then if, while the husband liveth, she be joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if the husband die, she is free from the law, so that she is no adulteress, though she be joined to another man.
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also were made dead to the law through the body of Christ; that ye should be joined to another, even to him who was raised from the dead, that we might bring forth fruit unto God.
so you want us to break free from the Law through Christ's death and marry Him and then divorce Him and come under the Law again?
Free Grace tells me I am married to Christ for ever, but being married to Him I am responsible to be obedient to Him, as a wife is to her husband
Nonsense again....grace believers are the very ones that encourage people to do the will of God and to believe in Christ!...and to teach grace as it is grace that teaches us how to live godly in this world!
How many times have we put up scriptures that say the complete opposite of what you are saying people say?
The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.
John 6:40 (NASB)
[SUP]40 [/SUP] "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.
Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
The grace of Christ will teach us His will by the Holy spirit within us.
Titus 2:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;