about the rich man

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#101
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#101
Ahwatukee said:
Believers when their bodies die, their spirit/soul departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. When the unsaved die, their spirit/soul departs from their body and they go or are taken to Hades, where they will remain in torment until the end of the thousand years. At that time they will be resurrected out of Hades and will stand before God at the great white throne. Regarding this, please consider the following:

For Believers:
"Therefore we are always confident, although we know that while we are at home in the body, we are away from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord."

"For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. So what shall I choose? I do not know. I am torn between the two. I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better indeed. But it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."


For unbelievers:

Just as with the rich man, when the unrighteous die, their spirit/souls go to or are taken by the angels to Hades/Shoel where they will be in torment and resurrected out at the end of the thousand years to be judged. In other words Willie, when the wicked die, their spirits/souls do not go to be in the presence of the Lord, as that is only for the faithful who die.
Click to expand...
Show me where it says either one of them, the rich man, OR Lazarus was either a believer OR an unbeliever. It says nothing about that anywhere. So why have you put that into the story as some sort of proof of something?

You are claiming this is a real story about real people, yet you have to come up with "facts" that are never even discussed.
 
Last edited:
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#102
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#102
PilgrimPassingThru said:
Here are a couple

Acts 2:22 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens:but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

Acts 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge.
And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Click to expand...
Exactly! Stephan's spirit went up to be with the Lord, while his body fell asleep. This a perfect example that demonstrates the distinction between the body and the spirit.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#103
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#103
Willie-T said:
Show me where it says either one of them, the rich man, OR Lazarus was either a believer OR an unbeliever. It says nothing about that anywhere. So why have you put that into the story as some sort of proof of something?
Click to expand...
Willie, the fact that Lazarus was comforted and the rich man was in torment in flame says it all. The reason why Lazarus was there with Abraham was because he was reconciled to God through faith, otherwise, he would have been in the same place as rich man.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#104
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#104
Ahwatukee said:
Exactly! Stephan's spirit went up to be with the Lord, while his body fell asleep. This a perfect example that demonstrates the distinction between the body and the spirit.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure it says nothing more than "he fell asleep."...... died, like anyone else, and is today, awaiting resurrection and the judgement......... neither of which has happened yet.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#105
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#105
Ahwatukee said:
Willie, the fact that Lazarus was comforted and the rich man was in torment in flame says it all. The reason why Lazarus was there with Abraham was because he was reconciled to God through faith, otherwise, he would have been in the same place as rich man.
Click to expand...
Now, you are catching on. Jesus was telling that parable to the Jews who did not have faith in Him that this Greek (representative of the Gentile nations) who did have faith would inherit the kingdom they were so positive would be theirs because they were born Jews.
 
Last edited:
H

HisHolly

Guest
#106
#106
Willie-T said:
Show me where it says either one of them, the rich man, OR Lazarus was either a believer OR an unbeliever. It says nothing about that anywhere. So why have you put that into the story as some sort of proof of something?

You are claiming this is a real story about real people, yet you have to come up with "facts" that are never even discussed.
Click to expand...
The rich man says he wants his brothers warned so they can repent.
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#107
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#107
HisHolly said:
The rich man says he wants his brothers warned so they can repent.
Click to expand...
Of course. And how many "brothers" was it? Think about that particular number for a few minutes.... (think hard.... you know who that represented.)
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#108
#108
He said so they don't come where I am..

Repent so you can be a believer and be where Lazarus is, is what he was saying. its all there
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#111
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#111
Willie-T said:
Now, you are catching on. Jesus was telling that parable to the Jews who did not have faith in Him that this Greek (representative of the Gentile nations) who did have faith would inherit the kingdom they were so positive would be theirs because they were born Jews.
Click to expand...
Willie, the above is simply implied by you, as there is noting in the scripture that would lead the reader to your conclusion. It's pure conjecture on your part. The rich man and Lazarus is not a parable, but an actual event that the Lord is revealing to us.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
#112
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
#112
Willie-T said:
I'm pretty sure it says nothing more than "he fell asleep."...... died, like anyone else, and is today, awaiting resurrection and the judgement......... neither of which has happened yet.
Click to expand...
But you are conveniently leaving out the part where Stephan said, "Lord, receive my Spirit." His body fell asleep (died) and his spirit departed and went to be in the presence of the Lord.

 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#113
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#113
Willie-T said:
Of course. And how many "brothers" was it? Think about that particular number for a few minutes.... (think hard.... you know who that represented.)
Click to expand...
It's mean to leave you hanging with that, so here is the answer.

"They have Moses and the Prophets..."

The Kingdom of Judah did have "Moses and the Prophets.” They were the protectors and scribes of those very documents till the time of our Lord's ministry.

The Rich man said: "I have five brothers...”

At first glance, you might think Judah can't be this "Rich man.” Didn't Judah have eleven brothers? Yes and No. True, there were twelve sons of Israel, one of which was Judah, but not all by the same mother.
Judah's Mother, Leah, had
1. Reuben
2. Simeon
3. Levi
4. Issachar
5. Zebulun
6. Judah makes six (Gen. 29:31-35, 30:18-19).

So who had five brothers? Judah.

That Judah (the Jews), is here personified in this Rich man, there can be little doubt!
 
Willie-T

Willie-T

Banned
#114
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#114
Ahwatukee said:
But you are conveniently leaving out the part where Stephan said, "Lord, receive my Spirit." His body fell asleep (died) and his spirit departed and went to be in the presence of the Lord.
Click to expand...
Jesus said the very same thing, yet you know that Jesus went down to Hell and preached to the captives there.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#115
#115
Willie-T said:
Jesus said the very same thing, yet you know that Jesus went down to Hell and preached to the captives there.
Click to expand...
And why were they there if your stance is true? bc they didn't believe..
You just contradicted your whole argument on sleep.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#116
#116
All interesting..
I'm not trying to seem like an abuser..
I don't mean anything by what I say.
 
P

PilgrimPassingThru

Senior Member
#117
Feb 11, 2016
2,501
40
0
#117
Ahwatukee said:
But you are conveniently leaving out the part where Stephan said, "Lord, receive my Spirit." His body fell asleep (died) and his spirit departed and went to be in the presence of the Lord.
Click to expand...
The body itself without the spirit is dead, he called on God to receive his spirit (fell asleep) same is shown in Lazarus (concerning his sleeping John 11:11) Jesus said plainily Lazarus was dead John 11:14

Acts 8:2 And devout men carried Stephen to his burial,
and made great lamentation over him.

Ecc 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


 
vic1980

vic1980

Senior Member
#118
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
199
63
44
#118
Willie-T said:
I'm pretty sure it says nothing more than "he fell asleep."...... died, like anyone else, and is today, awaiting resurrection and the judgement......... neither of which has happened yet.
Click to expand...
Do you believe Moses & Elijah are with the LORD ?

Do you believe The saints awake from that sleep ?

Matthew 27:52-53

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
 
Last edited:
H

HisHolly

Guest
#119
#119
Willie-T said:
It's mean to leave you hanging with that, so here is the answer.

"They have Moses and the Prophets..."

The Kingdom of Judah did have "Moses and the Prophets.” They were the protectors and scribes of those very documents till the time of our Lord's ministry.

The Rich man said: "I have five brothers...”

At first glance, you might think Judah can't be this "Rich man.” Didn't Judah have eleven brothers? Yes and No. True, there were twelve sons of Israel, one of which was Judah, but not all by the same mother.
Judah's Mother, Leah, had
1. Reuben
2. Simeon
3. Levi
4. Issachar
5. Zebulun
6. Judah makes six (Gen. 29:31-35, 30:18-19).

So who had five brothers? Judah.

That Judah (the Jews), is here personified in this Rich man, there can be little doubt!
Click to expand...
I don't understand what that has to do with anything. Why just the 6 of them.. I have never heard of what you have concerning this so please do teach if you can.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#120
#120
When they were before joseph they made no distinction between being half brothers when they said we have one more with our father.. Any other time they are all mentioned. Why break them up for this?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.