ROMANS, CHAPTER 8

[Angela53510]

God didn't give me a linear Greek anything. That's all on man and man wanting to correct the Bible. The KJV defines itself. It has its own built in dictionary and take study to shew yourself approved unto God.

You only know God uses His creation because He told us so in His book. If it weren't in His book, then it wouldn't be so.

OK, once again John. You do know that the Bible was originally written in Hebrew and Aramaic for the Old Testament, and Greek for the New Testament, right?

The KJV is just a translation and not the best one available at that. (For numerous reasons I have already stated.) Talking about manuscripts and what they say in the original languages, and how they were translated, sometimes erroneously is not "correcting the Bible." It is discussing intelligently what the original writers wrote based on manuscripts that are available, most of which were not available when the KJV committee did their translating.

God inspired the Greek and Hebrew writers, not a translation committee.

 

[Cee]

Isn't it strange that the Apostle John didn't know he was in the Spirit at all times. Rev 1: 10.
There is a difference between the Spirit of God being in us, and us being in the Spirit.

Hmm, you make a good point, I'm not sure why Scripture says you are in the Spirit if you belong to Christ and then John makes the correlation with being in the Spirit on the Lord's Day.

I took a look at the Greek and they are identical, so you have a fair point here.

I might have to rethink somethings. I'm always open to feedback.

I know God will provide an answer.

This shows we are always in the Spirit, if we have the Spirit of Christ.

You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

And this shows John indicating that he's not always in the Spirit.

I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet

Best I can come up with right now, is that Paul is saying it positionally.
And John is saying it experientially.

C.

 

[Cee]

Angela any thoughts about my above question?

 

[Johnlove]

Romans
8


1 .) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 .) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 .) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 .) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 .) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 .) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 .) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 .) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 .) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 .) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 .) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 .) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 .) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 .) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 .) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 .) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 .) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Thank God for the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit!

Yes, and God is not going to dwell in the same house as the devil. In fact one who sins has never seen God, nor knows God.

(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”


(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who is a child of God sins because God's seed remains in him. Nor can he sin, because he is a child of God. This is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil: whoever does not live uprightly and does not love his brother is not from God” New Jerusalem bible

(1 John 3:9-10) “No one who has been begotten by God sins; because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God. In this way we distinguish the children of God from the children of the devil: anybody not living a holy life and not loving his brother is no child of God’s.”

(Romans 8:1-4) “The reason, therefore, why those who are in Christ Jesus are not condemned, is that the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. God has done what the Law, because of our unspiritual nature, was unable to do. God dealt with sin by sending his own Son in a body as physical as any sinful body, and in that body God condemned sin he did this in order the Law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the spirit dictates.”

 

[God4me]

Hmm, you make a good point, I'm not sure why Scripture says you are in the Spirit if you belong to Christ and then John makes the correlation with being in the Spirit on the Lord's Day.

I took a look at the Greek and they are identical, so you have a fair point here.

I might have to rethink somethings. I'm always open to feedback.

I know God will provide an answer.

This shows we are always in the Spirit, if we have the Spirit of Christ.

You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

And this shows John indicating that he's not always in the Spirit.

I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet

Best I can come up with right now, is that Paul is saying it positionally.
And John is saying it experientially.

C.

Unless John was deeper into the Spirit, as you'll probably know, when God wants to do something for us or through us, He gives us an Anointing to do it, or to speak to us.
And that Anointing is stronger than our normal daily walk in the Spirit.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hmm, you make a good point, I'm not sure why Scripture says you are in the Spirit if you belong to Christ and then John makes the correlation with being in the Spirit on the Lord's Day.

I took a look at the Greek and they are identical, so you have a fair point here.

I might have to rethink somethings. I'm always open to feedback.

I know God will provide an answer.

This shows we are always in the Spirit, if we have the Spirit of Christ.

You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

And this shows John indicating that he's not always in the Spirit.

I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet

Best I can come up with right now, is that Paul is saying it positionally.
And John is saying it experientially.

C.

I agree with you that being "in the Spirit" is a spiritual reality because we are in Christ and then there are have been experiences that some have had that seem to do with visions or perhaps leaving their fleshly bodies in their spirit and going to heaven.

There seems to be an experience where some have come out of their body as Paul talked about such an experience and he said he didn't know whether he was in or out of the body when he was caught up to the 3rd heaven. John in Rev.1:10 had the same experience.

That is a manifestation of being in the Spirit and your spirit by-passes our body and that is done by the Holy Spirit. We don't conjure that up.

There is also a "walking by the Spirit"..or in some cases it's called "according to the Spirit".

I believe the KJV translated Gal 5:16 and 26 inaccurately by putting "in the Spirit" in both of these verses. Most other translations have "by the Spirit".

I suppose one could make a case for "in" although it isn't in the Greek but think it confuses the truth of believers actually "being in the Spirit" because we are in Christ like Romans 8:9 very clearly shows.

I believe knowing where we are spiritually helps us to grow in our understanding of being in Christ and to grow up in Him.

Just some thoughts on the subject....

 

[miknik5]

Hmm, you make a good point, I'm not sure why Scripture says you are in the Spirit if you belong to Christ and then John makes the correlation with being in the Spirit on the Lord's Day.

I took a look at the Greek and they are identical, so you have a fair point here.

I might have to rethink somethings. I'm always open to feedback.

I know God will provide an answer.

This shows we are always in the Spirit, if we have the Spirit of Christ.

You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

And this shows John indicating that he's not always in the Spirit.

I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet

Best I can come up with right now, is that Paul is saying it positionally.
And John is saying it experientially.

C.

I like what you have said

Best I can come up with right now, is that Paul is saying it positionally.
And John is saying it experientially.


Paul also understood that all were at different "walks" and did not ever lay down any rules...
He always prayed to the baby believing body that GOD may give them the SPIRIT to better understand their great salvation and he, as an overseer over the baby body in his care, did everything to teach, exhort, encourage, discipline and strengthen that body in his care.

So, Paul would have been stressing "positionally" for the sake of teaching those under him...
But I do believe Paul also experienced and knew the difference between being in GOD'S SPIRIT and in his own.
And in fact, to the church of Corinth, he tells them should I come with a rod, or with a spirit of meekness and gentleness?

He knew what he wanted to do...but also knew that he could not do what he wanted to do...for he could not go above THE MASTER...
I believe Paul and John both had and did experience the fullness of THE HOLY SPIRIT firsthand...

 

[miknik5]

Not only that...but it is THE SPIRIT who teaches us.
And anyone taught by THE LORD, understands afterwards, that it was HIM who spoonfed so easily to them all the TRUTHS of HIS WORD...

John received a NEW REVELATION from the GOSPEL and was told to write it down...
John received this NEW REVELATION directly from THE LORD...

Just as Paul when he began to learn about the BODY and to write to all the churches in his care as issues arose, learned directly from THE LORD...

 

[Cee]

Unless John was deeper into the Spirit, as you'll probably know, when God wants to do something for us or through us, He gives us an Anointing to do it, or to speak to us.
And that Anointing is stronger than our normal daily walk in the Spirit.

Yes, I've experienced this also, I feel the Shekinah glory of God at times. His weighter presence when I feel like He wants to specifically do something through me.

Which is ultimately what I was thinking with the word, "experientially".

I believe this would also parallel with Peter when he was "filled with the Holy Spirit". And he spoke with greater authority.

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people!

C.

 

[miknik5]

Yes, I've experienced this also, I feel the Shekinah glory of God at times. His weighter presence when I feel like He wants to specifically do something through me.

Which is ultimately what I was thinking with the word, "experientially".

I believe this would also parallel with Peter when he was "filled with the Holy Spirit". And he spoke with greater authority.

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people!

C.

Yes...I as well...

 

[posthuman]

Rom 8: 1, clearly is a choice, those carnal Christians don't receive or enjoy the blessings, Acts 20: 32.

receiving or enjoying blessings is not the same as being free from condemnation.
as we have clearly read and seen, it is our identification with Christ in His death that removes the condemnation of sin - because we have already died to it. that is not annulled just because we have not taken hold of the One who has taken hold of us, and fully comprehended His salvation, and are 'skillful' at walking in Him. it is a matter of the mercy of God, not a matter of human will or exertion.

You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit,
if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you.
(Romans 8:9)​

if we truly believed the gospel, then we were sealed with the Spirit of God. and so we are no longer in the flesh.
this is not a "choice" -- it is an inevitable result of having been shown His mercy and grace. Romans 8 is not presenting a "choice" at all -- it is describing who we were and who we are now and contrasting the two -- so that we will 'wake up' and walk in a way that befits reality.

if you don't comprehend this, i wonder how well you understand the gospel at all -- and wonder if indeed you have received it at all, or if you are still trying to establish your own righteousness?
would you mind describing for me ((and for all)) what you think the gospel is? what have you received? because i'm puzzled by you.

if you think Romans 8 is a "choice" -- read Romans 9. God is the one who makes the choice. God alone.

 

[miknik5]

Thanks Posthuman for sending the instructions on how to use the s̶t̶r̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶e̶x̶t̶

 

[Johnlove]

I agree with you that being "in the Spirit" is a spiritual reality because we are in Christ and then there are have been experiences that some have had that seem to do with visions or perhaps leaving their fleshly bodies in their spirit and going to heaven.

There seems to be an experience where some have come out of their body as Paul talked about such an experience and he said he didn't know whether he was in or out of the body when he was caught up to the 3rd heaven. John in Rev.1:10 had the same experience.

That is a manifestation of being in the Spirit and your spirit by-passes our body and that is done by the Holy Spirit. We don't conjure that up.

There is also a "walking by the Spirit"..or in some cases it's called "according to the Spirit".

I believe the KJV translated Gal 5:16 and 26 inaccurately by putting "in the Spirit" in both of these verses. Most other translations have "by the Spirit".

I suppose one could make a case for "in" although it isn't in the Greek but think it confuses the truth of believers actually "being in the Spirit" because we are in Christ like Romans 8:9 very clearly shows.

I believe knowing where we are spiritually helps us to grow in our understanding of being in Christ and to grow up in Him.

Just some thoughts on the subject....

(1 John 2:5 -6) “Whoever says, 'I know him' without keeping his commandments, is a liar, and truth has no place in him. But anyone who does keep his word, in such a one God's love truly reaches its perfection. This is the proof that we are in God. Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.”
(1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

 

[John146]

OK, once again John. You do know that the Bible was originally written in Hebrew and Aramaic for the Old Testament, and Greek for the New Testament, right?

The KJV is just a translation and not the best one available at that. (For numerous reasons I have already stated.) Talking about manuscripts and what they say in the original languages, and how they were translated, sometimes erroneously is not "correcting the Bible." It is discussing intelligently what the original writers wrote based on manuscripts that are available, most of which were not available when the KJV committee did their translating.

God inspired the Greek and Hebrew writers, not a translation committee.

In other words, you have nothing to rely upon for truth. I believe God when He said He would preserve His pure words for all generations. I believe we have the pure words of God in English in the KJB. Every word is true. Every word is the exact word I need in English. It's actually better than the original because I speak English.

 

[Depleted]

"There is, therefore, now no condemnation, for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Anyone else noticing the pages of condemnation over a post that started out with those words? Why is there no condemnation from Christ, but lots of condemnation here? I guess many of you think you know better than Christ. Get over yourself, because "There is therefore, now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." I take heed to those words, not your condemnation. All I get from all that condemnation is a list of names never to trust for teaching God's word.

 

[Angela53510]

Angela any thoughts about my above question?

I haven't really spent any time looking at the Greek or anything. But the first thought that came to mind was "Just because he formally stated he was "in the Spirit" on the Lord's Day, doesn't mean he was not also in the Spirit on every other day. He just wanted people to make sure they knew what he was about to say really came from the Lord and not his flesh.

Regarding the translation of prepositions, which I think Grace777 brought up. Classical Greek was very strict about how to use prepositions. Koine Greek was a language in transition and although "eis" was supposed to mean "into, in, among" you can find it translated as anything from "by" to "with." And a lot of prepositions also depend upon which case they are being used with. So the definitions can be quite different. So Koine Greek was moving forward, and sometimes it doesn't say quite what we might want it to say, especially where prepositions are concerned.

 

[Angela53510]

In other words, you have nothing to rely upon for truth. I believe God when He said He would preserve His pure words for all generations. I believe we have the pure words of God in English in the KJB. Every word is true. Every word is the exact word I need in English. It's actually better than the original because I speak English.

I rely on the Bible, and the Holy Spirit within. So what makes you think that God "inspired" an archaic translation, written 400 years ago? Because I certainly can't read KJ English. Because it is NOT modern English. That is why we study the original languages, to gain insight as to what was said before translators put out versions that were not quite perfect, like the KJV. So many mistakes. Every time I compare the Greek to the KJV, I can find so many mistakes. And I am just an intermediate student. No, the KJV is not even close to being as good as the original languages. But for that matter, I would prefer to read any modern translation in English to the KJV, because I simply do not understand the language.

So sorry you are so anti-intellectual, and have been brain washed to believe that somehow in England, 400 years ago, that God "inspired" a translation, rather than the writers who actually wrote the Bible. And so what happens to all those billions of Chinese, who don't speak KJ English? Or any of the other major languages around the world? Are you telling me that they don't have access to the Bible, because KJV is written in English from 400 years ago, and they speak Spanish, German, Hindi or Mandarin, etc.etc.? Just the height of not understanding the truth of the Bible.

 

[posthuman]

I speak English.

you speak modern English. you don't speak Victorian English. i've read your posts -- you simply don't speak that way. it's an wholly different dialect.

It's actually better than the original

here's a new boast i haven't heard before. interesting.

so John, if you were a translator, and you were charged with translating the Bible into Inuit, how would you go about that?
get a "pure" kjv out (which one? haven't there been a dozen revisions since 1611?), since it's 'better than the original,' and a couple of dictionaries - one for Victorian English ((which you don't speak)) to modern English ((which you do speak)), and then another one for modern English to Inuit?
or would the wise thing to do, in order to do this right and not wind up with an unfaithful mess, to be to go to the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts that exist, and work from those?

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Im dumping the KJV for the Message bible because all the folks I know speak that so fluently, thats todays English

Thanks PostHuman, thats a good idea

Anyone know an online link to the Message bible so I can copy paste from there?

 

[God4me]

Yes, I've experienced this also, I feel the Shekinah glory of God at times. His weighter presence when I feel like He wants to specifically do something through me.

Which is ultimately what I was thinking with the word, "experientially".

I believe this would also parallel with Peter when he was "filled with the Holy Spirit". And he spoke with greater authority.

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: "Rulers and elders of the people!

C.

Isn't that experience wonderful.