Muslim Religion

[peacenik]

Another point to "right wing Christians" being just as bad as "radical" Muslims, I judge Islam on its doctrines, in the quran and other scriptures they follow. And I can find many verses that say kill, fight, gather against, ambush ect ect.

You will not find these kinda verses in the Gospel. And even in the OT, people quote verses of putting certain people to death without using the whole bible to show the real meaning behind these teachings, "He who is without sin cast the first stone".

Someone can say "why not use that same standard with the quran", to that Id say, go ahead and prove how the quran doesnt really teach to kill and fight. I have seen many verses that make the literal command to fight, and to this day the only argument Ive seen against this fact is that we are taking "kill the unbelievers" out of context.
(and of course, when they make that claim, they dont prove it by showing context, they just tell you "context")

You likely forgot McCain singing "Bomb, bomb, bomb, Bomb bomb Iran" or the calls for a "pre-emptive war" against that country which turned out to be a valuable ally in the fight against radical Jihadists. McCain was joined by James Hagee. I have already mentioned Cass:

Why right-wing Christians are actively promoting genocide - Salon.com




Of course, a true Christian would know these people are not even remotely Christian and should condemn their idiocies just like Muslims do with the actions of radical Jihadists. One thing to note is that the Koran does teach that "there is no compulsion in Islam" [Sura 2:56] which again proves that AQ & ISIS do not represent that religion at all.

 

[JosephsDreams]

I am not sure that they accept the term "radical jihadist". Suffice it to say that they do not represent the Koran nor Islam.

You obviosly do not know the Koran very well. Your displaying your ignorance on the subjdct. Before you go any further, may I suggest you do a bit of reading about the matter so we can discuss this on even level? Or at least please support your statements with related facts and/or quotes from definitive sources, rather then ill informed mass media drudge.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

You likely forgot McCain singing "Bomb, bomb, bomb, Bomb bomb Iran" or the calls for a "pre-emptive war" against that country which turned out to be a valuable ally in the fight against radical Jihadists. McCain was joined by James Hagee. I have already mentioned Cass:

Why right-wing Christians are actively promoting genocide - Salon.com




Of course, a true Christian would know these people are not even remotely Christian and should condemn their idiocies just like Muslims do with the actions of radical Jihadists. One thing to note is that the Koran does teach that "there is no compulsion in Islam" [Sura 2:56] which again proves that AQ & ISIS do not represent that religion at all.

You should look up abrogation in the quran, its a very real thing.

How do you explain the many verses I posted about kill the unbeliever? And haha yup, I didnt learn all this by stuyding Islam and seeing what it was, no. I just listened to McCain.

Im such a devout Fox News fan and hardcore supporter of the Republican party and all, as you said : p

You clearly dont know that much about Islam, and only take your stance to be on the opposite side of Fox News, which is too bad because it keeps you from truth. I dont see why you cant just ignore all that media stuff and just look for truth yourself. You have had next to no good arguments here other than talking about how Fox News is unreliable and has a preconceived narrative, and thats great and all, but it has nothing to do with the topic here.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

The singular Lord is described via the following revealing term…





فصل لربك وانحر

Fasalli lirabbika wainhar

108.2 So you pray to your Lord and Sacrifice.


انحر= “inhar”

“inhar” definition:

Singular noun.Offer sacrifice; devote ones life for the humanity; place ones hand in prayer on the upper part of the chest.

It comes from the root “nahara” (nun-ha-ra), which means to slaughter, sacrifice, injure the jugular vein, put hand on the upper part of the chest; to sacrifice by cutting the jugular vein.He stabbed, or stuck a camel, or a beast, in the throat. He slew.

وانحر= “wa” +“inhar” =“wainhar” = and sacrifice

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, pp. 2774 – 2775
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1[SUP]st[/SUP] edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 555
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 144
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 191


Occurrences of “wainhar” in the Koran: 1
Location: 108.2

Occurrences of the root “nahara” and its one derivative in the Koran: 1
Location: 108.2



Thus....obviously not about 'allah'.....rather, about the Biblical Jesus Christ.

I looked up the chapter, its pretty short, doesnt say much.

108:1 "Indeed, we have granted you [O Muhammad] al-kawthar"

108:2 "So pray to your lord and sacrifice [to him alone]"

108:3 "Indeed, your enemy is the one cut off"

I do know the quran says this though-

5:75 "Christ the son of mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers who passed away before him"

4:48 "allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with him, but he forgiveth anything else, to whom he pleaseth, to set up partners with allah is devise a sin most heinous indeed."

Any Muslim who knows the quran would not accept your argument, Im sure.

 

[peacenik]

You obviosly do not know the Koran very well. Your displaying your ignorance on the subjdct. Before you go any further, may I suggest you do a bit of reading about the matter so we can discuss this on even level? Or at least please support your statements with related facts and/or quotes from definitive sources, rather then ill informed mass media drudge.

I have read the Koran and likely know it better than you and Yeraza. The only problem is that my understanding does not square with yours. This is why you pretend that I do not understand it.

Unfortunately, in the short while that I have been on this forum I have repeatedly seen posts which reveal that those of you on the far right continue to succumb to the illusion that you are always correct in every argument. Somehow, if something does not fit in with your deluded politically correct point of view, then that idea (ever what it might be) is always wrong. In your twisted ways of "thinking", if one can call it thinking at all, only you have the right to an opinion and your own set of facts. Some day you will need to learn that such cultish delusionalism is of no value to anyone other that to yourselves.

 

[ZEEK]

Paul identifies Islam as blasphemous.

Blasphemy means a misrepresentation of Jesus' person.

In the 1970's in the UK, a homosexual magazine was tried for blasphemy when they claimed Jesus had gay sex in the tomb after rising from the dead. (sic) (sick) Sorry to have to mention this, but these are facts.

It was Blasphemy because it was a lie about Jesus. I am in no way equating Islam to this repulsive episode, I am just illustrating the meaning of blasphemy. What did Jesus say about blasphemy?

[h=1]Matthew 12:31-32King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
[/FONT]

So, following Jesus, my starting point with Islam is to forgive them their error, and move forward from there. I do not have huge experience of Islam, but all the Moslems I have met have been very thoughtful conscientious people. I can only go on my own experience in this matter.

Regarding Islam versus diluted Christianity, I believe that God prefers orthodox peaceful Islam to gay Christianity.

 

[JosephsDreams]

I have read the Koran and likely know it better than you and Yeraza. The only problem is that my understanding does not square with yours. This is why you pretend that I do not understand it.

Unfortunately, in the short while that I have been on this forum I have repeatedly seen posts which reveal that those of you on the far right continue to succumb to the illusion that you are always correct in every argument. Somehow, if something does not fit in with your deluded politically correct point of view, then that idea (ever what it might be) is always wrong. In your twisted ways of "thinking", if one can call it thinking at all, only you have the right to an opinion and your own set of facts. Some day you will need to learn that such cultish delusionalism is of no value to anyone other that to yourselves.

Its not my thinking that is deluded...
If you have read the Koran, I believe you do not understand it well. Didn't you say somewhere in a post on this site you went to law school? So obviously you must be of at least average if not above average intelligence. But in my experiences with people in life, that does not always mean they speak with wisdom or insight or understanding. Unlike you, I can actually back up my words with what the Koran and scholars say.
I am not going into dogmatic, ideological talk about what you do or don't believe, or what you think I may or may not stand for.
If that is all you can do, then after this post, either answer me in a manner I asked for in my previous post, which is reply with facts from trusted sources, or leave me be. Otherwise I am not replying to you anymore, because it is a waste of my time then. Doing so would be just as useless to me as trying to argue the bible with an atheist who never read it with a open and willing spirit.
To start, the Koran makes it clear, there is no such thing as radical Islam the way we term it here in America. In fact, if a Muslim is not involved in some way bringing down the Kafir, he is the radical, and not in a good way. So radical Islam is a term we, actually not me, but you, are accepting and believing, because the liberal media wants you to. Your being manipulated, brain washed. Worse yet, your now repeating their nonsense. Bad enough the world does it, but a Christian being a tool for satan? Wise up.
According to the Koran, which you have read, so you should know this, the only radical Muslim, or radical Islam, are the ones who DON'T want to kill us. That is the Korans implied definition, not mine. I am talking facts, not regurgitated mass media lies.
Second, you are what I would term as a borderline Muslim apologist. It is people like you who are pushing a guilt complex on our society because it fits the liberal world view of how bad white Christians have been for the world. In the mean time over the centuries the church is responsible directly or indirectly for more universities, hospitals, and food drives, then probably all of the world governments put together. But your just following the liberal agenda like a lemming. Be a Berean. MUSLIMS HAVE KILLED 270 MILLION NON MUSLIMS IN 1400 YEARS. What don't you understand about that? And don't start with the crusades. Its like comparing apples and oranges. Do you know why the crusades happened? Its a lot different reason then why Islam kills. Not that I am justifying the crusades. And how many people were killed during the crusades? Hint, not even a fraction close to 270 million people. So what, your saying that 270 million deaths over the last 1400 years have just been our misunderstanding of their needs and wants by us non Muslim folks?? Do I need to draw you a connect the dots?
Their book openly and repeatedly commends, not suggests, nor implies, but in clear and simple words commands, that they kill, or convert, or subjugate ALL non Muslims, with severe warnings of punishment if this dictates are not obeyed.
About 50% of their book talks about how to deal with non Muslims, and trust me, you who have read the Koran, it is not a guide on what to gift us for Christmas.
Do you know what the principle of duality in the Koran is?
Do you know the Bedouin origins of their religion and how even today it has great impact?
Do you know that the stories about the Islamic golden age is myth? It is same lie that was propagated in the media over 75 years ago concerning the Germans and the Russian space program after WW ll ended.
Do you even know that the Koran you read today is not the same different book written soon after Mohammad's death? And do you know why?
I can back all those statements up.
If you can't answer me with facts, not your opinions, but facts, so this can pique my interest, and maybe be a learning experience for me, then please don't reply. If you do reply repeating the same nonsense, don't expect me to answer.
God bless. I know my tone is a bit abrupt; it is not because I don't respect you, I do. But it is because your replies are not based on anything that can induce a volley of a back and forth intellectual exchange in our posts, and in fact are frustrating because of their lack of educational and truthful focus on your end.
I pray God opens your heart and mind. And gives me more patience to suffer replies like yours.

 

[ZEEK]

How do you know most activity is sponsored by the US and Israel? Why do you say Isis has nothing to do with Islam?

Where do you want to start?
The Evil Zionist Greater Israel Project explained

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

I have read the Koran and likely know it better than you and Yeraza. The only problem is that my understanding does not square with yours. This is why you pretend that I do not understand it.

I do not believe you have read it, or that you know it better. And you know why? Because you both contiually make claims that Muslims believe in the same Jesus Christ that we do, with zero verses to back up your claim. And you continue to just deny all the verses shown on this thread that call for war and violence and murder, and keep saying "Isis has nothing to do with Islam", you have shown one verse, and it was pretty weak, as it is one thing Muhammad said once, even though afterwards he specifically made the call for war and subjugation, which is why Muslims use abrogation with their holy book (in fact some qurans even have an explanation of it in the back of the book).

You continually make claims that "your Muslim friend said", you give false statements about Islam, and you constantly accuse anyone who is against Islal of being a conservative, as if were all a bunch of brainwashed fools who do whatever Fox News says, not only insulting us, but putting yourself on some higher level for not watching Fox News.

And not only do I not believe that you know the quran that well, but I dont believe you know the bible that well, as you seem to believe that Jesus would be on your side of not calling out false prophets, and not guiding Muslims to the truth. I think you are not guided by the the word of God, in all honesty. I think you are guided by "progressive thinking people" who hate those who follow God, and are willing to defend a religion that literally calls for murder and subjagation, whos founder had sexual relations with a child, who allowed his followers to take the women of the people they murdered as sex slaves, who has created more persecution against Gods people than anyone, who has even made a call for war against the Jews in order to establish their end times (read sahih bukhari 52:177).

You blantantly ignore any verse from the quran when shown, and you argue with your own feelings about Fox News and other related junk. So no, I do not believe you know the quran in any way. I think you know a few verses you heard Barak Obama say in a speech, and because of your hatred for "right wing Christians", you have told yourself you know more than we "brain washed fools".

 

[BurlyCarl]

Its Quran not Koran. Have any of you actually Read the Quran? I'm not talking about looking stuff up on the internet or referenced just portions of the Quran or pickle picking things from Fox News. Or self medicate yourself on what your ears or brain likes to hear. A well educated man is an informed man. Saying that you don't need to educate yourself on a topic is the same as attempting to apply for a job as a Doctor with no education. Or the same as a black belt in Brazilian Ju Jujitsu picking a fight with someone who has no training at all. It's no contest.

Their are 10 sections of the Quran that extremist are taking out of context. It would be no different if I were to hand pick 10 versus out of the Bible and use them to create a extremist Christian group. I am not defending what the Quran says or teaches lets make this very clear before anyone starts jumping to conclusions. That's what they are doing is taking picking it apart. Just like some people like to pick and choose Bible verses.

I want to put something into perspective for you. Imagine for a moment. You live in a Islamic country. You were born there. You have no education. You were taught by your parents who you trust most of all. You taught you the Muslim Islamic religion. You have to work instead of go to school from an early age. A group comes rolling into town one day and they are the coolest thing you have seen in years. They say to you "You want to make some real money? You want to have some girls? We have drugs too if you want to try them? You believe in the Quran right? Come to our meeting, here is $100 just show up". Your uneducated, your broke and whoa this guy just gave me $100. He said I can make real money. You go to this meeting. They tell you every wonderful thing your ears want to hear. You don't know any better. You go home and think on it. You cant read and have a pamphlet with cool looking pictures. I never been part of something. They made me feel good. They stroked my ego. I going to join. I have too have a Muslim friend everyone calls him Sonny and he is Palestinian. He explained to me that is what they do. They pick out the weakest and prey on them. If anything me and Sonny agree on. Is peace. I show him what the Bible teaches and he shows me and explains what his Quran teaches. Both religious Books similar on mostly everything. AGAIN I believe in the Bible.

Here is my logic. Is agreement on Peace wrong? Sonny and I agreed on this... You have to believe in the whole book or its nothing at all. Not pickle pick the book to comfort your selfish mind or hidden agenda which most extremist do. He showed me this passage and made me copy of it to keep. I am quoting the Quran.

"The Holy Quran, Surah 2: AL Baqarah, Section 8:62"
Those who believe in the Quran, and those who follow the Jewish scriptures, and the Christians and the Sabians. Any who believe in Allah and the Last Day (Revelations) and work in righteousness (Gods Will). Shall have their reward with their Lord; on them Shall be no fear, nor shall they Grieve.

You either believe in the whole book either the Bible and Quran depending on your free will. Or nothing at all. Is peace wrong? NO!

Just like corrupt churches here their are corrupt churches there too. Just saying.

 

[Sirk]

Its Quran not Koran. Have any of you actually Read the Quran? I'm not talking about looking stuff up on the internet or referenced just portions of the Quran or pickle picking things from Fox News. Or self medicate yourself on what your ears or brain likes to hear. A well educated man is an informed man. Saying that you don't need to educate yourself on a topic is the same as attempting to apply for a job as a Doctor with no education. Or the same as a black belt in Brazilian Ju Jujitsu picking a fight with someone who has no training at all. It's no contest.

Their are 10 sections of the Quran that extremist are taking out of context. It would be no different if I were to hand pick 10 versus out of the Bible and use them to create a extremist Christian group. I am not defending what the Quran says or teaches lets make this very clear before anyone starts jumping to conclusions. That's what they are doing is taking picking it apart. Just like some people like to pick and choose Bible verses.

I want to put something into perspective for you. Imagine for a moment. You live in a Islamic country. You were born there. You have no education. You were taught by your parents who you trust most of all. You taught you the Muslim Islamic religion. You have to work instead of go to school from an early age. A group comes rolling into town one day and they are the coolest thing you have seen in years. They say to you "You want to make some real money? You want to have some girls? We have drugs too if you want to try them? You believe in the Quran right? Come to our meeting, here is $100 just show up". Your uneducated, your broke and whoa this guy just gave me $100. He said I can make real money. You go to this meeting. They tell you every wonderful thing your ears want to hear. You don't know any better. You go home and think on it. You cant read and have a pamphlet with cool looking pictures. I never been part of something. They made me feel good. They stroked my ego. I going to join. I have too have a Muslim friend everyone calls him Sonny and he is Palestinian. He explained to me that is what they do. They pick out the weakest and prey on them. If anything me and Sonny agree on. Is peace. I show him what the Bible teaches and he shows me and explains what his Quran teaches. Both religious Books similar on mostly everything. AGAIN I believe in the Bible.

Here is my logic. Is agreement on Peace wrong? Sonny and I agreed on this... You have to believe in the whole book or its nothing at all. Not pickle pick the book to comfort your selfish mind or hidden agenda which most extremist do. He showed me this passage and made me copy of it to keep. I am quoting the Quran.

"The Holy Quran, Surah 2: AL Baqarah, Section 8:62"
Those who believe in the Quran, and those who follow the Jewish scriptures, and the Christians and the Sabians. Any who believe in Allah and the Last Day (Revelations) and work in righteousness (Gods Will). Shall have their reward with their Lord; on them Shall be no fear, nor shall they Grieve.

You either believe in the whole book either the Bible and Quran depending on your free will. Or nothing at all. Is peace wrong? NO!

Just like corrupt churches here their are corrupt churches there too. Just saying.

Here is my logic....Mohammad married a 6 year old girl....Mohammad is worshipped as God by Muslims. Muslims subjugate women and children. They teach their children to hate westerners in school by dehumanizing them. They even dress little boys up as girls for their little play thing. I see zero similarities between Islam and Christianity. In fact, I don't think they could be anymore different. I don't need to read the Quran to see what muslim nations do to themselves and their people. I'll just turn on the tv and watch them blow up an airport somewhere and then watch them cheer in the streets at all the carnage. Enough said....

 

[BurlyCarl]

Here is my logic....Mohammad married a 6 year old girl....Mohammad is worshipped as God by Muslims. Muslims subjugate women and children. They teach their children to hate westerners in school by dehumanizing them. They even dress little boys up as girls for their little play thing. I see zero similarities between Islam and Christianity. In fact, I don't think they could be anymore different. I don't need to read the Quran to see what muslim nations do to themselves and their people. I'll just turn on the tv and watch them blow up an airport somewhere and then watch them cheer in the streets at all the carnage. Enough said....

My point again They are taught.

 

[BurlyCarl]

If you want to get down to the nitty gritty the actual spelling is Qur'an.

 

[Utah]

Its Quran not Koran. Have any of you actually Read the Quran? I'm not talking about looking stuff up on the internet or referenced just portions of the Quran or pickle picking things from Fox News. Or self medicate yourself on what your ears or brain likes to hear. A well educated man is an informed man. Saying that you don't need to educate yourself on a topic is the same as attempting to apply for a job as a Doctor with no education. Or the same as a black belt in Brazilian Ju Jujitsu picking a fight with someone who has no training at all. It's no contest.

Jesus Christ is Lord of all and Savior of those who have faith in Him. A well educated man need not waste his time reading anything that does not acknowledge Jesus Christ's full divinity, aka, the Quran. And since I'm a Black belt in Tae Kwon Do, I don't pick fights, I just win them.

 

[JosephsDreams]

Its Quran not Koran. Have any of you actually Read the Quran? I'm not talking about looking stuff up on the internet or referenced just portions of the Quran or pickle picking things from Fox News. Or self medicate yourself on what your ears or brain likes to hear. A well educated man is an informed man. Saying that you don't need to educate yourself on a topic is the same as attempting to apply for a job as a Doctor with no education. Or the same as a black belt in Brazilian Ju Jujitsu picking a fight with someone who has no training at all. It's no contest.

Their are 10 sections of the Quran that extremist are taking out of context. It would be no different if I were to hand pick 10 versus out of the Bible and use them to create a extremist Christian group. I am not defending what the Quran says or teaches lets make this very clear before anyone starts jumping to conclusions. That's what they are doing is taking picking it apart. Just like some people like to pick and choose Bible verses.

I want to put something into perspective for you. Imagine for a moment. You live in a Islamic country. You were born there. You have no education. You were taught by your parents who you trust most of all. You taught you the Muslim Islamic religion. You have to work instead of go to school from an early age. A group comes rolling into town one day and they are the coolest thing you have seen in years. They say to you "You want to make some real money? You want to have some girls? We have drugs too if you want to try them? You believe in the Quran right? Come to our meeting, here is $100 just show up". Your uneducated, your broke and whoa this guy just gave me $100. He said I can make real money. You go to this meeting. They tell you every wonderful thing your ears want to hear. You don't know any better. You go home and think on it. You cant read and have a pamphlet with cool looking pictures. I never been part of something. They made me feel good. They stroked my ego. I going to join. I have too have a Muslim friend everyone calls him Sonny and he is Palestinian. He explained to me that is what they do. They pick out the weakest and prey on them. If anything me and Sonny agree on. Is peace. I show him what the Bible teaches and he shows me and explains what his Quran teaches. Both religious Books similar on mostly everything. AGAIN I believe in the Bible.

Here is my logic. Is agreement on Peace wrong? Sonny and I agreed on this... You have to believe in the whole book or its nothing at all. Not pickle pick the book to comfort your selfish mind or hidden agenda which most extremist do. He showed me this passage and made me copy of it to keep. I am quoting the Quran.

"The Holy Quran, Surah 2: AL Baqarah, Section 8:62"
Those who believe in the Quran, and those who follow the Jewish scriptures, and the Christians and the Sabians. Any who believe in Allah and the Last Day (Revelations) and work in righteousness (Gods Will). Shall have their reward with their Lord; on them Shall be no fear, nor shall they Grieve.

You either believe in the whole book either the Bible and Quran depending on your free will. Or nothing at all. Is peace wrong? NO!

Just like corrupt churches here their are corrupt churches there too. Just saying.

Your right, it is properly Quran. I am using the English variation, Koran. But that is really not the focus here, is it?
And your right in your scenario about the poor and uneducated.
But does that make it acceptable?
Imagine, your raised badly, no money, maybe no dad, abused by family, etc. You come of age, say at around 25 you kill someone because they insulted your wife. You go in front of a judge. You tell him the sad story of your upbringing. He tells you he has sympathy for you, but also says, "son, that does not excuse you from committing murder. Your at an age of accountability for your actions."
There are many, many Muslims who probably find the violence aspect of the Quran revolting. The root of the problem is that the book of which they live by is endorsing killing and near slavery conditions for those who don't convert to Islam. It is endorsing violence to instigate the beginning of their end times prophecy. Not to mention the tremendous peer and societal pressure passive Muslims are under.
I am not cherry picking the Quran to bend to my view.
Seriously, you don't find it a little alarming that the Quran, their holy book, is comprised of about 50% of content on how to deal with Kifirs, or non Muslims? And that the overwhelming majority of it is telling their readers to treat us badly.
Would you say I am taking things out of context?
If you picked up a book about how to make a better marriage, and about half of it spoke about how wicked and evil woman were, what might you come away thinking?
For that matter, what credible holy book spends about half of its content speaking about a people who who don't even subscribe to its principles? Isn't that a bit of a concern to anyone?
Imagine if half the bible spoke about Muslims, and atheists, and Buddhists, and Hindus? And how to mistreat them. I can't even picture that.

 

[JosephsDreams]

Jesus Christ is Lord of all and Savior of those who have faith in Him. A well educated man need not waste his time reading anything that does not acknowledge Jesus Christ's full divinity, aka, the Quran. And since I'm a Black belt in Tae Kwon Do, I don't pick fights, I just win them.

Hey Utah, that's cool. I didn't know you were a BB in TKD. I took Vhada Kempo, kick boxing, Krav Maga, and finally MMA for a combined 8 years. Got my BB in KB in 2008. I studied mostly in Staten Island and Manhattan.

 

[Utah]

Hey Utah, that's cool. I didn't know you were a BB in TKD. I took Vhada Kempo, kick boxing, Krav Maga, and finally MMA for a combined 8 years. Got my BB in KB in 2008. I studied mostly in Staten Island and Manhattan.

That's awesome my brother. And like a true martial artist, you are gentle and humble in spirit. You are truly a wonderful brother in Christ and a great mentor in His Name.

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Its Quran not Koran. Have any of you actually Read the Quran? I'm not talking about looking stuff up on the internet or referenced just portions of the Quran or pickle picking things from Fox News. Or self medicate yourself on what your ears or brain likes to hear. A well educated man is an informed man. Saying that you don't need to educate yourself on a topic is the same as attempting to apply for a job as a Doctor with no education. Or the same as a black belt in Brazilian Ju Jujitsu picking a fight with someone who has no training at all. It's no contest.

Their are 10 sections of the Quran that extremist are taking out of context. It would be no different if I were to hand pick 10 versus out of the Bible and use them to create a extremist Christian group. I am not defending what the Quran says or teaches lets make this very clear before anyone starts jumping to conclusions. That's what they are doing is taking picking it apart. Just like some people like to pick and choose Bible verses.

I want to put something into perspective for you. Imagine for a moment. You live in a Islamic country. You were born there. You have no education. You were taught by your parents who you trust most of all. You taught you the Muslim Islamic religion. You have to work instead of go to school from an early age. A group comes rolling into town one day and they are the coolest thing you have seen in years. They say to you "You want to make some real money? You want to have some girls? We have drugs too if you want to try them? You believe in the Quran right? Come to our meeting, here is $100 just show up". Your uneducated, your broke and whoa this guy just gave me $100. He said I can make real money. You go to this meeting. They tell you every wonderful thing your ears want to hear. You don't know any better. You go home and think on it. You cant read and have a pamphlet with cool looking pictures. I never been part of something. They made me feel good. They stroked my ego. I going to join. I have too have a Muslim friend everyone calls him Sonny and he is Palestinian. He explained to me that is what they do. They pick out the weakest and prey on them. If anything me and Sonny agree on. Is peace. I show him what the Bible teaches and he shows me and explains what his Quran teaches. Both religious Books similar on mostly everything. AGAIN I believe in the Bible.

Here is my logic. Is agreement on Peace wrong? Sonny and I agreed on this... You have to believe in the whole book or its nothing at all. Not pickle pick the book to comfort your selfish mind or hidden agenda which most extremist do. He showed me this passage and made me copy of it to keep. I am quoting the Quran.

"The Holy Quran, Surah 2: AL Baqarah, Section 8:62"
Those who believe in the Quran, and those who follow the Jewish scriptures, and the Christians and the Sabians. Any who believe in Allah and the Last Day (Revelations) and work in righteousness (Gods Will). Shall have their reward with their Lord; on them Shall be no fear, nor shall they Grieve.

You either believe in the whole book either the Bible and Quran depending on your free will. Or nothing at all. Is peace wrong? NO!

Just like corrupt churches here their are corrupt churches there too. Just saying.

That verse you posted is completely contradicted by this here-

Quran 4:48 "alla forgiveth not that partners should be set up with him, but he forgiveth anything else to whome he pleaseth; to set up partners with allah is to devise a sin most heinous indeed."

And for those who dont want to take that literally, as its written, here is another very similar verse-

Quran 4:116 "allah forgiveth not (the sin of) joining other gods with him; but he forgiveth whom he pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods with allah , have strayed far, far away from the right."

And again, chapter 5 verse 75 tells us that Christ was no more than a prophet, and there are verses that tell us that He did not die for our sins, that no one can bear the burden of another.

So why does the quran say that those who believe in Christ will be saved. Because Muhammad talked about an unbiblical Christ that you do not find in the bible. This is why any and every Muslim will tell you, "the bible has been corrupted".

By them saying that they believe in Christ, they are telling you they believe what Muhammad said about Christ. So, when your read these verses, it is not the Gospel that you should believe, its Muhammads interpretation of the bible.

So no, once again, and hopefully for the last time, no Muslims DO NOT believe in Jesus Christ, there are many verses that deny Him, and tell you that putting Him as equal with God, the very thing that He was crucified for, will lead you to eternal condemnation. No, they do not believe in Jesus Christ, they believe in Muhammad, and a Jesus spoken only by Muhammad alone.
In other words, Muhammad is the final word for any Muslim, in fact the quran tells you that you are not a Muslim if you do not accept Muhammads word as final.

And thats a rational scenario, being given things you want to go and get yourself killed for a cause. But imagine this scenario.


You know that there is a God, you have not let yourself be decieved by the world in order to enjoy your life. Because you know theres a God, you acknoledge you have done evil, and you know that you will be jugded for your sins. You know that you have something to fear.

So, in your fear and desire to find God and seek His mercy, but not yet knowing the word of God, a man comes to you with a book, written by a man who was guided by angels. He tells you the book is the way to God. This god denies the Christian God. And because of your lacking of understanding of the word of God, you let yourself follow man made laws on God. "Why would God enter His own creation? If He were truly God He would not lower Himself like that. Its not logical at all". And you let yourself become faithful and loyal to this god.

You begin to wonder how you find salvation. You are told that no one can bear the burdens of your sins. The only way to be saved is to be faithful to this god, follow all his laws perfectly, and live life as perfectly as you can, being sure you never mess up, hoping that on judgement day your good deeds will out weigh your bad deeds.

But, the man tells you theres another way. He shows you verses that tell you those who are faithful to this god slay and are slain in his cause, that he wants you to fight the unbelievers, and make war with them, and be his way of punishing them with a terrible agony.

You have already accepted that this god is God, and you believe that he will save you if you kill or die in his name. You become so faithful to him that you are willing to give your life for him, believing that by doing this work, you will enter his kingdom, and never fear or feel pain again.

Sadly, and as much as some people hate to have to accept, these verses are 100% in the quran. You can keep saying they are misquoted and taken out of context, but these verses literally make the claim to fight the unbeliever, kill the unbeliever, fight them until there is no more disbelief, fight them until they say "there is no god but allah" and pay the jizya. If you can take verses around those commands that show that they are being taken out of context, then please feel free. Ive seen the "there is no compulsion to religion" before, and the "you have your religion and I have mine" too. But they dont undo the many commands to fight and kill.

 

[peacenik]

Its not my thinking that is deluded...
If you have read the Koran, I believe you do not understand it well. Didn't you say somewhere in a post on this site you went to law school? So obviously you must be of at least average if not above average intelligence. But in my experiences with people in life, that does not always mean they speak with wisdom or insight or understanding. Unlike you, I can actually back up my words with what the Koran and scholars say.
I am not going into dogmatic, ideological talk about what you do or don't believe, or what you think I may or may not stand for.
If that is all you can do, then after this post, either answer me in a manner I asked for in my previous post, which is reply with facts from trusted sources, or leave me be. Otherwise I am not replying to you anymore, because it is a waste of my time then. Doing so would be just as useless to me as trying to argue the bible with an atheist who never read it with a open and willing spirit.
To start, the Koran makes it clear, there is no such thing as radical Islam the way we term it here in America. In fact, if a Muslim is not involved in some way bringing down the Kafir, he is the radical, and not in a good way. So radical Islam is a term we, actually not me, but you, are accepting and believing, because the liberal media wants you to. Your being manipulated, brain washed. Worse yet, your now repeating their nonsense. Bad enough the world does it, but a Christian being a tool for satan? Wise up.
According to the Koran, which you have read, so you should know this, the only radical Muslim, or radical Islam, are the ones who DON'T want to kill us. That is the Korans implied definition, not mine. I am talking facts, not regurgitated mass media lies.
Second, you are what I would term as a borderline Muslim apologist. It is people like you who are pushing a guilt complex on our society because it fits the liberal world view of how bad white Christians have been for the world. In the mean time over the centuries the church is responsible directly or indirectly for more universities, hospitals, and food drives, then probably all of the world governments put together. But your just following the liberal agenda like a lemming. Be a Berean. MUSLIMS HAVE KILLED 270 MILLION NON MUSLIMS IN 1400 YEARS. What don't you understand about that? And don't start with the crusades. Its like comparing apples and oranges. Do you know why the crusades happened? Its a lot different reason then why Islam kills. Not that I am justifying the crusades. And how many people were killed during the crusades? Hint, not even a fraction close to 270 million people. So what, your saying that 270 million deaths over the last 1400 years have just been our misunderstanding of their needs and wants by us non Muslim folks?? Do I need to draw you a connect the dots?
Their book openly and repeatedly commends, not suggests, nor implies, but in clear and simple words commands, that they kill, or convert, or subjugate ALL non Muslims, with severe warnings of punishment if this dictates are not obeyed.
About 50% of their book talks about how to deal with non Muslims, and trust me, you who have read the Koran, it is not a guide on what to gift us for Christmas.
Do you know what the principle of duality in the Koran is?
Do you know the Bedouin origins of their religion and how even today it has great impact?
Do you know that the stories about the Islamic golden age is myth? It is same lie that was propagated in the media over 75 years ago concerning the Germans and the Russian space program after WW ll ended.
Do you even know that the Koran you read today is not the same different book written soon after Mohammad's death? And do you know why?
I can back all those statements up.
If you can't answer me with facts, not your opinions, but facts, so this can pique my interest, and maybe be a learning experience for me, then please don't reply. If you do reply repeating the same nonsense, don't expect me to answer.
God bless. I know my tone is a bit abrupt; it is not because I don't respect you, I do. But it is because your replies are not based on anything that can induce a volley of a back and forth intellectual exchange in our posts, and in fact are frustrating because of their lack of educational and truthful focus on your end.
I pray God opens your heart and mind. And gives me more patience to suffer replies like yours.

Since you are not very open minded you will not likely believe the fact that I have just as many arguments on other web forums with Christophobic types who hate Jesus. This because they agree with philosopher Alan Watts when he pointed out that more people have been killed in Jesus's name than for any other reason in human history.


By contrast, the claim of 270 million killed by Islam is hog wash:

Fact-Checking Pamela Geller: '270 Million' Victims of Islam? - Little Green Footballs



This especially so in the out right lie that more Hindus were killed by Muslims when historically it is well established that Christian Queen Victoria killed far more people there in the modern era than all other foreign enemies combined.

 

[peacenik]

I do not believe you have read it, or that you know it better.

That's quite all right with me since your views are clearly motivated by hatred for Muslims. There is nothing in the Bible to justify Islamophobia or any other form of prejudice. If you must persist in your hate, then so be it.