The Evils Of Adoption

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kiwi_OT said:
I dont agree at all, there are cases of adoption all over the bible.

It was Gods will for Moses to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. In order to do that, Moses mother had to sadly allow her son to be adopted by the daughter of the very pharoh who was committing genocide against all their babies.
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Did Moses' Mother want to give him away?

Because Timothys father was a Greek non christian, when Paul saw potential in him as a teenager he became his mentor and then pretty much unofficially adopted him.
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Taking a teen under your wing in God's work is hardly adoption.

What about Joseph (Marys Husband). He stood tall next to his wife, knowing her baby wasnt his biologically, yet he raised him as his physical father teaching him carpentry and how to be a man etc. I would call that the best adoption of all.
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This is a very unique case. I hardly think that it justifies adoption in all cases.

Abraham adopted his nephew Lot.

Your statistics are just that - statistics. Just numbers. I bet you got them off the internet too. Anything that has not come out of a qualified research journal is to be take with a grain of salt thankyou very much.
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Lot was not a baby.

My numbers are from a website created by birthmothers who were manipulated or forced into giving their children away. Tell me please, who is a more credible source than the birthmothers?

Oh by the way, the bible says that God adopted us all. You saying God doesnt have a right to take us away from our biological parents?
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God didn't adopt us. He created us and then took us back from satan's control. (and don't give me scriptures on this either because I know the scriptures. God was the original parent of mankind, we just inherited satan through Adam's sin).

Quest
 
pickles said:
Right now I know a christian couple that have been unable to have children.
They lost every child during pregnacy.
My prayers are that the adoption they are seeking will soon go through.
I could not find more kind and loving parents.
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I am certain Pickles that these people you mention are fantastic people who would make great parents. Still, the method concerns me.

You are praying in this situation, and I will pray also. I will pray that the mother they get the child from isn't guilted and pressured into surrendering her child. I also will pray for them - like the women prayed in the Bible - that God would open the womb or heal the womb instead.

Prayer mixed with faith brought fire down from heaven after first stopping the rains for three years, so I trust it's effectiveness. The Bible also says that a prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well. If God doesn't answer the prayer, it's not because His promises are broken or deficient. It's because there is a problem on our end. I know. I have a list of a thousand unanswered prayers in my lifetime. But I know that it's my fault they weren't answered, not God's.

One great example is this: Smith Wigglesworth brought his wife back from the dead, and then had to let her go when he realized it was God's will to take her home. Despite it being God's will, his faith still brought her back to life.

I know some think differantly, but consider, we all are adopted by God Our Father because of Jesus.
In fact I believe scripture says adopted.
So What would God Our Father say.
I myself have only seen joy in those that have adopted, and even in the adoptees.
I understand for those that have had sorrow in this thinking it as bad.
But attacking adoption is not the answer, forgiveness is.
The bitter heart can blame no one, but itself.
In Jesus all is made good and glorious.
In Jesus, his love heals all.
God bless, pickles
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We were created by God originally, and fell into satan's kingdom by Adam's sin. God is our original Father. A comparison could be this: God being a Father whose children were given away to adoption by the Mother, and then who has to go to court to fight to get the rights over his kids. That's just an example, and I have heard of court cases somewhat similar to this.

I would liken adoption in some instances to Abraham sleeping with Hagar to obtain a child for himself. Taking his handmaid had nothing to do with faith whatsoever, it was all a fleshly solution. As well, just look at the consequences of that choice today, with the Arab/Israeli conflict!

I'm not attacking adoption as a whole Pickles, though I may have been at times early in this thread. I am attacking the necessity of most adoptions, and the crimes that exist in adoption business today.

I am also questioning whether adoption is God's solution to a closed or an unhealthy womb. I don't believe that it is.

Quest
 
Anni said:
how about babies from countries such as china, where they can only have 1 baby per family? the mothers CANT keep the children. is adoption not justified in that situation? a good, loving home vs. an orphange with little food, few clothes and limited attention?
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Yes Anni, adoption would be best in this situation. Like I said before in the thread, I am not completely unreasonable in my viewpoints.

Quest
 
havah said:
Moses was adopted, and thereby placed in a position to lead God's people out of Egypt, as God willed it. Our parents are here to raise us but we are on loan to them -- be they biological or not. We belong to God.
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Greetings Havah,

I personally don't believe that God "willed" Moses to be adopted. It was God's will for the world to be a place full of people who trusted in and loved Him. God was just doing the best He could with a sinful world.

Your logic is equal to claiming that God had planned ahead of time to march the Israelites around in the desert for 40 years until they were all dead. As well, this logic is equivalent to the Calvinist view that God wills men to eternal ****ation. I personally cannot subscribe to these beliefs.

Quest
 
Question time this all comes down to your presupposition that all the parents of children needing adoption have been coerced, maybe this is so in some cases but not all.

Didn't Joseph basically adopt Jesus as his own?

There may be a fraudulent system in the states, maybe here in the UK also. But you cannot allow that to taint your love for those who are in real need of someone to take them in and nourish them. not all adoptionees' are babies.

Yes in an ideal world the parents would want to keep their own children, in an ideal world there would not be people maiing money out of this, we are not in an ideal world. Pray and pray, for the fraudulent system. but lets adopt the children in need who so disparately need loving parents.

That's my view.

Phil
 
Hello Questiontime

I still ver much disagree with everything you say and do NOT take anything back however my birthparents treated me like i wasnt important but i choose to be mature and not bear grudges on them, yes tey had problems so did we but God would think the children as more important in this situation because we are more vulnerbale than the adults

I will no loner have this discussion with you, you have hurt many people on this thread and so will not say any more

Just remember how cross i am with you!
 
artistic_dreams said:
ok i happen to be married to a man that has a sister and a brother ......they were given up by their biological mother....she wants nothing to do w/any of them.......he just recently tried to find her....when i found her and contacted her....her words were that she had no kids...they alll died her in eyes...and leave her alone....

so you saying shes wrong for giving up her kids??and before u ask me to see the video....i cant due to slow dialup......i know u hate adoption, but others dont.....its not an evil thing because there are sometimes it can save a childs life when that child has been removed from a home of abuse and put into foster care and then they are adoptive......or if a young mother who has grown up in a house of abuse and someone like her father, brother, stepfather or other male relative rapes her and gets her pregnant against her will....that is an extremely dangerous home to raise a child in....so adoption is the next best thing......i totally disagree w/thi 98% thing and i really think the senator is probably rambling to get attention but that is my opinion...thats not to start a fight ....i totally respect your opinion.....yes there are some women that should becareful about their sexual situations.....but sometimes there are women that have wonderful homes then end up single and homeless....and have no choice but to give up kids....and you are sitting here claiming how evil it all is......each situation is different and it is not our place to judge their situations....yes alot of them mothers dont want to give them up and it rips their hearts out but they know that they are doing the best they can....

i was almost there myself this past year....i almost had to give up custody of my daughter due to the fact i was homeless and she was living w/her godmother..i made darn sure she was not on the streets w/me......but by the grace of god i did not have to do that.....it was ripping me to shreds every day and so many tears that even now it almost makes me cry again.....are u gonna call me a bad mom because i would have given her up????? im a single mom because i escape a man that beat the heck out of me and he and his friends raped me when i was bed bound and wheelchair bound....but i escape and by golly the lord jesus christ saved me...he got me out.......and i was barely able to keep my daughter......

you can judge me or cut me down or anything....but its not wrong.....adoption is for women like me when we are in situations like that.....or to avoid things like that....or when we are just not capable at the time of taking care of the child.......so saying its evil is just insane...

blessings to you

deani
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Dear Deani,

First off I want to acknowledge the horrible things you have experienced, and offer you a big hug. I am so sorry that any human has had to suffer what you have.

Secondly Deani, I want to make clear that this thread is 100% pro birthmom. I have been arguing from the very beginning that many birthmother's do not want to give up their children, but are often made to feel guilty for wanting to keep their kids. Many times they are pressured and made to believe that adoption is the only way out. Birthmothers are also not given enough support to raise their children themselves either, when keeping their kids is what they really want to do, just like you did!

Thirdly Deani, I have been promoting an alternative idea, which is the adoption of both birthmother and child together. I am so glad that you found a way to avoid giving your children up. I believe that Christians ought to help both Mom and baby together, not just take the baby in adoption and forget about the Mom. I am really proud of you, that you had a heart that was so pained with love for your children. I bet you are a super Mom who deserves an award!

As far as that Mom in your first example, who despises her children so much that she says they all died... I would say that she ought to be ashamed of herself for being so heartless, even after all of these years. Obviously she doesn't have any of the same love and integrity that you have displayed in your relationship with your kids.

God bless you Deani!

Quest
 
Question Time
The facts you bring up are the exception rather than the norm.
Most Mother who are made to give up their children is because of life problems. This is also done by our government. The adoption scene was much different 25 to 30 years ago. It is rather different now.
There are bad things that happen that should not have happened, but its not normal.
 
I wonder if perhaps the mods could close this thread, or at least allow me to rename the thread.

Unfortunately people read the name of the thread and post before they take the time to understand my point of view. I really think that keeping this thread open is harmful as it is just creating animosity. I know that I have said some things that added to the animosity, but that was not my intention.

This thread was meant to be 100% pro-birthmom. Even though I was given up for adoption and used to rage against my own birthmother for giving me away, I grew up. I am now more interested in helping the birthmoms keep their kids, because I believe that most of them really want to. Not all, just most of them.

It's probably best to close this thread entirely and if anyone wants to start a new one we can do so with a better name that reflects where I am coming from: 100% Pro Birthmom!!!

Quest
 
QuestionTime said:
I wonder if perhaps the mods could close this thread, or at least allow me to rename the thread.

Unfortunately people read the name of the thread and post before they take the time to understand my point of view. I really think that keeping this thread open is harmful as it is just creating animosity. I know that I have said some things that added to the animosity, but that was not my intention.

This thread was meant to be 100% pro-birthmom. Even though I was given up for adoption and used to rage against my own birthmother for giving me away, I grew up. I am now more interested in helping the birthmoms keep their kids, because I believe that most of them really want to. Not all, just most of them.

It's probably best to close this thread entirely and if anyone wants to start a new one we can do so with a better name that reflects where I am coming from: 100% Pro Birthmom!!!

Quest
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I can see that question, and through pray and action maybe we can help many.

Phil
 
After every post in this thread I will just post a request to close the thread to ensure that the mods see. I don't know if maybe there is a better way to request this thread to be closed or not.

Quest
 
QuestionTime said:
After every post in this thread I will just post a request to close the thread to ensure that the mods see. I don't know if maybe there is a better way to request this thread to be closed or not.
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Why do you want it closed?
If you have made your points then stop posting and if you are tired of the opposing arguments then stop reading, the thread should stay open for those who may wish to contribute later on.
 
The title of this thread is absurd... I hope you bite your cheek during your next meal.
 
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