Can we or can we not lose our salvation?

[hornetguy]

He did?

You highlighted jesus words, where he said "I Never Knew you" And you want to say that explains how someone can lose salvation well??

If Jesus said, I NEVER KNEW YOU, He meant it.. They never had a relationship, ever,, Salvation was not lost. It was never given, because the people never repented, how do we know? "they practiced unrighteousness, or in that version, iniquity"

No.... he explained how we can voluntarily give up our free gift of salvation.

I think you know what I meant.... perhaps not.

If you think that once someone is saved, he CANNOT willfully walk away from God, then you are delusional. That would make us some kind of freakish cosmic puppet being forced to accept something we no longer want.

I've said it a bunch of times, but I'll say it one more time...... God will not save us against our will. That is the unforgivable sin... not WANTING to be forgiven. The REJECTION of the gift of salvation.

and, I've heard it over and over again..."if someone decides they don't want to have a relationship with God anymore, then they weren't truly saved in the first place"..... Bull....

God created us to have free will.. to choose what we want, or DON'T want.

 

[LaurenTM]

people want control. They make their own God and own religion up. Or follow someone who they feel represents what they believe. Romans 1 speaks to this.. There will be no excuse.

even God does not control

He allows questions and He says 'come let us REASON together

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No.... he explained how we can voluntarily give up our free gift of salvation.

I think you know what I meant.... perhaps not.

If you think that once someone is saved, he CANNOT willfully walk away from God, then you are delusional. That would make us some kind of freakish cosmic puppet being forced to accept something we no longer want.

I've said it a bunch of times, but I'll say it one more time...... God will not save us against our will. That is the unforgivable sin... not WANTING to be forgiven. The REJECTION of the gift of salvation.

and, I've heard it over and over again..."if someone decides they don't want to have a relationship with God anymore, then they weren't truly saved in the first place"..... Bull....

God created us to have free will.. to choose what we want, or DON'T want.

If you think Jesus telling someone to depart from me, because he never knew them proves that salvation can be lost. Then it is you who are delusional (using your own words) Because Jesus was talking to legalists, who thought they were going to heaven based on all the work they did in Jesus name, Not because of the cross. Jesus told them rightly, Depart. I NEVER KNEW YOU.



We have free will. God knows everything we will do from birth to death, God knew the moment we were saved if we would continue with him, or if our faith was dead and we would end up walking away, because our true faith was in someone else.

You have God weak, and unknowing, saving people he KNOWS will walk away..

That is a slam on the character of God in my book.

 

[Mec99]

This question has been answered over and over again.

No, we cannot lose our Salvation. Once Saved Always Saved.

BUT, we do have verses where God clearly say there are those who love to say "Lord, Lord' but in reality are not Christians who have received Salvation!

We must understand its those who refuse to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior are the ones who fit in the Category of those who have lost their Salvation. They really have not lost it, its just they never had it.

Its these people who appear to have lost Salvation that the Scriptures are talking about.

A good example of this is the Catholic Church. Many Catholics believe because they were Baptized as babies they have already received Salvation. This is why we see so many Catholics on this chat site teaching false doctrines about Mary. How can they see the Truth if they do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

 

[AuntieAnt]

Can we or can we not lose our salvation?

 

[Angela53510]

So this sounds like Catholic doctrine. First you have to be sanctified, and hopefully one day, maybe in purgatory you will be justified or saved. I've written this so many times, but once more for you.

1. Justification - Justification is "made righteous." Not of our works, but according to the verb tense in Greek - Passive Aorist particle - Δικαιωθέντες justified. The theological passive means it was done by God on the subject. God works this in our life. The Aorist points to a completed action. (NOT a future time, as in your scenerio! And people wonder what use Greek is! To present the truth and counter nonsense like this OP!)

"Therefore, since we are justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1.


2. Sanctification - the process of growing and becoming more like Jesus in this life. (NOT to be saved)

"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth." 2 Thess. 2:13

"And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor. 6:11

"For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." Hebrews 10:14


3. Glorification - This is what we receive after death. It is the ultimate perfection of believers. God glorifies our body and takes away all sin and temptation to sin.

"And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." Romans 8:30

"Who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself." Phil. 3:12

"Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appearswe shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:2

 

[Angela53510]

Oops! I forgot to answer the question. No, we cannot lose the salvation we have, because it is God who saves us. (Passive tense!) But we do have to follow Jesus. That is the sign that we are truly saved.

 

[hornetguy]

If you think Jesus telling someone to depart from me, because he never knew them proves that salvation can be lost. Then it is you who are delusional (using your own words) Because Jesus was talking to legalists, who thought they were going to heaven based on all the work they did in Jesus name, Not because of the cross. Jesus told them rightly, Depart. I NEVER KNEW YOU.



We have free will. God knows everything we will do from birth to death, God knew the moment we were saved if we would continue with him, or if our faith was dead and we would end up walking away, because our true faith was in someone else.

You have God weak, and unknowing, saving people he KNOWS will walk away..

That is a slam on the character of God in my book.

Well, we have different books, I suppose.

What you are saying is that we are predestined, which means we have no choice, and that is NOT what God created us to be.

Yes, God knows us, and He knows what we will do, and won't do, but He does not MAKE us do it.

It's much like a parent who knows which kid will take the cookie after being told not to, and which will not. The parent is not MAKING the child take it, they simply know how that child will respond.

If you are saying that God knows which of His kids will fall away, so He never saves them in the first place???? How cruel of a parent would that be? I know you are going to fail, so I'll just not even give you the opportunity to try??

Good grief. The lengths you osas people go to....

Again, a saved person cannot LOSE their salvation by failing, but they can willingly CHOOSE to give it up...

It's called free will.

 

[BuMiRo]

The short answer to your 1st question is YES

How and Why seems like reasonable follow up questions?

God Bless you

Patrick
working4christ2

Well I don't know if you read all. But I know you can lose yourself from God thanks!

 

[BuMiRo]

Well, we have different books, I suppose.

What you are saying is that we are predestined, which means we have no choice, and that is NOT what God created us to be.

Yes, God knows us, and He knows what we will do, and won't do, but He does not MAKE us do it.

It's much like a parent who knows which kid will take the cookie after being told not to, and which will not. The parent is not MAKING the child take it, they simply know how that child will respond.

If you are saying that God knows which of His kids will fall away, so He never saves them in the first place???? How cruel of a parent would that be? I know you are going to fail, so I'll just not even give you the opportunity to try??

Good grief. The lengths you osas people go to....

Again, a saved person cannot LOSE their salvation by failing, but they can willingly CHOOSE to give it up...

It's called free will.

No.... he explained how we can voluntarily give up our free gift of salvation.

I think you know what I meant.... perhaps not.

If you think that once someone is saved, he CANNOT willfully walk away from God, then you are delusional. That would make us some kind of freakish cosmic puppet being forced to accept something we no longer want.

I've said it a bunch of times, but I'll say it one more time...... God will not save us against our will. That is the unforgivable sin... not WANTING to be forgiven. The REJECTION of the gift of salvation.

and, I've heard it over and over again..."if someone decides they don't want to have a relationship with God anymore, then they weren't truly saved in the first place"..... Bull....

God created us to have free will.. to choose what we want, or DON'T want.

This question has been answered over and over again.

No, we cannot lose our Salvation. Once Saved Always Saved.

BUT, we do have verses where God clearly say there are those who love to say "Lord, Lord' but in reality are not Christians who have received Salvation!

We must understand its those who refuse to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior are the ones who fit in the Category of those who have lost their Salvation. They really have not lost it, its just they never had it.

Its these people who appear to have lost Salvation that the Scriptures are talking about.

A good example of this is the Catholic Church. Many Catholics believe because they were Baptized as babies they have already received Salvation. This is why we see so many Catholics on this chat site teaching false doctrines about Mary. How can they see the Truth if they do not have the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit?

Well that was a rethorical question. If you would have read everything you would knew this. I have posted many verses that sustain you can lose yourself from God...but no one bothers to read them . This is tiring

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, we have different books, I suppose.

What you are saying is that we are predestined, which means we have no choice, and that is NOT what God created us to be.

Yes, God knows us, and He knows what we will do, and won't do, but He does not MAKE us do it.

It's much like a parent who knows which kid will take the cookie after being told not to, and which will not. The parent is not MAKING the child take it, they simply know how that child will respond.

If you are saying that God knows which of His kids will fall away, so He never saves them in the first place???? How cruel of a parent would that be? I know you are going to fail, so I'll just not even give you the opportunity to try??

Good grief. The lengths you osas people go to....

Again, a saved person cannot LOSE their salvation by failing, but they can willingly CHOOSE to give it up...

It's called free will.

Ya had to throw the calvin rant didn't you?

sorry, But your wrong, Predestination is based on Gods knowledge,, It is not that he forces anything, It is that he already knows everything..It is set in stone,

God predestining a person from the beginning, that is scripture.. You can't have someone predestined fromt he beginning, then lost in the end.

Again, A saved person can not lose salvation period. To say so makes salvation of works. and God a God who is not omniscient.

 

[BuMiRo]

Well, we have different books, I suppose.

What you are saying is that we are predestined, which means we have no choice, and that is NOT what God created us to be.

Yes, God knows us, and He knows what we will do, and won't do, but He does not MAKE us do it.

It's much like a parent who knows which kid will take the cookie after being told not to, and which will not. The parent is not MAKING the child take it, they simply know how that child will respond.

If you are saying that God knows which of His kids will fall away, so He never saves them in the first place???? How cruel of a parent would that be? I know you are going to fail, so I'll just not even give you the opportunity to try??

Good grief. The lengths you osas people go to....

Again, a saved person cannot LOSE their salvation by failing, but they can willingly CHOOSE to give it up...

It's called free will.

No.... he explained how we can voluntarily give up our free gift of salvation.

I think you know what I meant.... perhaps not.

If you think that once someone is saved, he CANNOT willfully walk away from God, then you are delusional. That would make us some kind of freakish cosmic puppet being forced to accept something we no longer want.

I've said it a bunch of times, but I'll say it one more time...... God will not save us against our will. That is the unforgivable sin... not WANTING to be forgiven. The REJECTION of the gift of salvation.

and, I've heard it over and over again..."if someone decides they don't want to have a relationship with God anymore, then they weren't truly saved in the first place"..... Bull....

God created us to have free will.. to choose what we want, or DON'T want.

Oops! I forgot to answer the question. No, we cannot lose the salvation we have, because it is God who saves us. (Passive tense!) But we do have to follow Jesus. That is the sign that we are truly saved.[/QUOTE

I'll read more tomorrow. Now is late 12:35PM and I am tired. But for sure you can lose your path towards Christ...read the posts I made. Ok so Justification, Sanctification are on Earth, but Glorification and Salvation is afterwards ! Read 1 Peter 1:4-9, Romans 8: 22-25, Hebrews 6:4-6, Hebrews 10: 35-39, 2 Peter 1:9-11, 1 Corinthians 9:24-27, and so on...

 

[Mec99]

There is no Purgatory. Purgatory is a place invented by the Catholics where one WORKS off the Stain of their sins.

Its the Blood of Jesus that cleanses us from ALL our sins. There is no stain from our sins to be worked off in Purgatory like the Corrupted Catholics teach.

Romans 8:29-30
[SUP]29 [/SUP]For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; [SUP]30 [/SUP]and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Romans 5:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

First comes Salvation. Then we receive Justification. Then we are Sanctified.

You have them in the wrong order to begin with.

We are Justified by Faith and by the Blood of Jesus.

Its a shame we have so many FALSE Christians on here teaching their lies instead of the Truth from God!

 

[Chester]

Ya had to throw the calvin rant didn't you?

sorry, But your wrong, Predestination is based on Gods knowledge,, It is not that he forces anything, It is that he already knows everything..It is set in stone,

God predestining a person from the beginning, that is scripture.. You can't have someone predestined fromt he beginning, then lost in the end.

Again, A saved person can not lose salvation period. To say so makes salvation of works. and God a God who is not omniscient.

I have only found in Scripture that believers are predestined. Can you give a Scripture that clearly says that unbelievers are predestined?

Why and how can you say that if a someone believes a person can lose their salvation (when they cease having faith in Christ) that this is a salvation of works.? And a God who is not omniscient? ??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have only found in Scripture that believers are predestined. Can you give a Scripture that clearly says that unbelievers are predestined?

If only believers are predestined. Then what does that say about unbelievers?

Why and how can you say that if a someone believes a person can lose their salvation (when they cease having faith in Christ) that this is a salvation of works.? And a God who is not omniscient? ??

Because it states a person saved himself by staying in faith ..It takes God and his death out of the equation,.

John said any antichrist (one who rejects Christ) has never been saved..

plus, If God knows everything, does he not know who will (if they could) turn from faith?

Saying God gives ETERNAL LIFE to someone, who later would stop trusting god.. is not a good thing.

 

[Budman]

No.... he explained how we can voluntarily give up our free gift of salvation.

If you think that once someone is saved, he CANNOT willfully walk away from God, then you are delusional.

Where is the biblical proof for this?

Is there a single example of anyone doing that in the Bible? Is there a single example of anyone having the power to do that in the Bible?

I think J.F. Strombeck said it best:

If one who has been saved and is dead to the Law by the body of Christ could be lost, then it would be possible to put to death the same person twice. This is impossible. To say it is possible for one who has been saved to be lost, is to deny the value of the substitutionary death of Christ.

If one could "give back" their salvation, it would be necessary to return him into the state of being under the Law. As he was freed from the Law by payment of the death penalty, he can be brought back under it only by undoing the execution of his substitute (Christ). Until that is done, the Law can have nothing to say to him.

The Bible says we have been purchased by Christ. That which is owned has no right of will contrary to the will of the owner. It has liberty to go, only within the limits granted by the owner. It is perfectly clear then, that the Good Shepherd does not grant to any sheep that has cost Him so much to place in His own hand for safety, the privilege of jumping out of it. (John 10:28-29)

It would also contradict His words, "they shall never perish," for if one could jump out they must perish.

God's hand is not an open hand, it is a hand that holds.

 

[PeterJens]

There is a joke in all this argument.
What if all those who argue for OSAS are actually just a distraction.

In a marriage do you stay married because you know your partner will not leave you or because you love them?

When you push OSAS people further, if someone falls away, and curses God, lives a life of rebellion they are still saved.
Ezek 18:24 says the opposite. God will ignore them as an unbeliever.

Now either God is lying through Ezekiel or OSAS is right. Now is a divorce real when adultery takes place or when the husband says it is over? Does it still exist because a divorce has not been completed?

Is eternity founded on a free choice of loving people walking in love with Christ or is it just a religious joke of buying a ticket and Jesus will honour an enemy in rebellion?

Because Jesus is saying He is behind the veil, just one step away, is in the hearts of those who love him. But if you come to hate him, through over His commands, He will just accept you with open arms? Not a chance. These choices are eternal and real. It is why the veil exists so people can discover Christ, but those who have and walk away there is nothing left if they stay in this rebellion. They are trampling Gods grace under foot. Why should they be treated any better than sinners, surely even worse because they tasted of the Kingdom and rejected it for a life of sin.

 

[PeterJens]

The promises of God are for His people, those who are faithful to Him.
God even says this all the way through the old testement. I will honour those who honour me. I will save my people.
I will judge and cast out those who sin and dishonour me.

It is really this clear cut. Israel were warned, though God had chosen His nation, he would cut them to pieces, drag them off to slavery and torture if they continued in sin and disobedience. And He did exactly that.

Yet this God who these beleivers say they know and follow, will ignore their behaviour and wave them through into eternal life perfection even when they are lost in sin. Not a hope.

 

[Grace777x70]

There is a way to lose your salvation ( as if it is "your
doing" that obtained it for you ).....but you have to be able to use a lot of imagination and have a very low opinion of our Lord's sacrifice and the integrity of our Father..( oh brother.. )

John 10:27-29 (NASB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

[SUP]29 [/SUP] "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.


You have to be NOT a "no one"...so no one means everything one else but you in order for this to work.....

All's you do is wrestle yourself out of Jesus' hand...then once you have Him beat..then you are ready to take on the Father. ( He's a little tougher but you will have experience now on how to pluck yourself out of His hand )

In order to scare Jesus and the Father first you must...I repeat MUST intimidate Them with your mighty power by verbally accusing Them....you can tell them that they lied when He said " I will never leave nor forsake you"

Then because you are in Christ...He is going to have to stop being a High Priest for you..( again God lied when He said He is a priest forever...Heb. 7:21 )

His blood which He spilled for all sins that has been taken away...that has to stop too being efficacious ....Jesus has to stop being the Lamb of God.

Even in the Old Covenant the priest looked at the lamb for blemishes..not the guy who brought the sacrifice.. the Father looks at Jesus....He is our Lamb! He is spotless and blameless.

We are new creations in Christ. Born from above.

To be unborn ...This is like saying..ok..I do not want to be a human now...see..it just doesn't make sense...how does one "un-born" themselves in the Lord. Peter says we are born again of incorruptible seed - the word of God.

.."...as He is..so also are we in this world.."

It's all really ridiculous...our salvation is not based on us...it is based on Jesus and His finished work!...He is faithful and grace much more abounds around sin.

It's just plain "spiritual ignorance that has gone to seed " to think of His perfect work and that somehow it revolves around us and what we do.

John 10:28 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and I "give" eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Romans 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the "gift" of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Romans 11:29 (KJV)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

We cannot lose salvation because it is not based on us. People may say strange things if they are sick in their minds but their spirit ( the inner man in Christ ) is safe with the Lord as it has been created in righteousness and holiness.

( Somehow some obscure passages of scripture that people take without looking at it in context nullifies all the vast proof of scriptures that speak otherwise of the integrity of God and His completed work....is it possible we have those scriptures interpreted wrong because we look through the wrong "lens"?...of course.. )

 

[PeterJens]

I just had am image. If you ever as a parent have a child who is feeling lonely and lost, you reassure them with your commitment to keep them safe.

That is your promise to them. It does not mean they cannot run off and do something stupid, you are promising something from your side.

Now people are reading these promises and saying God will force you to believe and follow Him. I mean he did this with the disciples and forced Judas to betray Him, and made Peter deny Him three times, because everyone chosen is chosen.

This is the kind of relationship rules these believers are reading into scripture, when scripture says, as in the prodigal son, I am the good father, your choose but you need to return to be saved.

But somehow being responsible for you actions is too much for them. I mean sin is also down to the flesh and not their hearts and it is totally Gods job to purify and make them clean, they have no involvement in the process at all.

What a joke... And they say they know God better than anyone, and can say who is a legalist and who truly is following Christ. God help them on judgement day. Opps sorry, think things will go very differently than they expect...something to do with being an evil doer I think, which they ignored when they had a chance...