So what about the fourth commandment?
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i do not think you are listening.
you have time now, then -- go read the PM i sent you again, and think about it. how does Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:17-18 alone if fully obeyed from the heart lead one to honor the sabbath? to tithe? if you had no knowledge of the written commandments given before the Messiah fulfilled them.
show yourself faithful in a little thing, instead of shrugging it off.
you have time now, then -- go read the PM i sent you again, and think about it. how does Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:17-18 alone if fully obeyed from the heart lead one to honor the sabbath? to tithe? if you had no knowledge of the written commandments given before the Messiah fulfilled them.
show yourself faithful in a little thing, instead of shrugging it off.
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Law of faith is not the law of works, I agree.
The point is Jesus is..
1. Speaking to Pharisees
2. Speaking about what the law requires.
3. Notice He says "it is lawful".
4. Do you find it anywhere besides Matthew? If not, that's a sign it's written to Jews under the law.
Do you know what the law of faith is? Our righteousness is from faith in Christ.
Do we have righteousness that comes from the law?
The point is Jesus is..
1. Speaking to Pharisees
2. Speaking about what the law requires.
3. Notice He says "it is lawful".
4. Do you find it anywhere besides Matthew? If not, that's a sign it's written to Jews under the law.
Do you know what the law of faith is? Our righteousness is from faith in Christ.
Do we have righteousness that comes from the law?
And it shall come to pass,
[that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. Isaiah 66:23 (KJV)
I believe it is speaking of Christians the new name God named his people who were prior called Israel in respect to an inward born again Jew. It’s interesting that because of the reformation that he uses the phrase ; from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another to say we are to worship Him continually.
Deut 5 says we are to remember the Sabbath because " you were slaves in the land of Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there by strength and power. That is why the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day."
That doesn't seem to apply to anyone who hasn't been a slave in Egypt.
In any case, I'm pretty skeptical of the thought that what we know as Saturday is the exact same day Moses would have recognized as the Sabbath. As far as I can tell, the most prevalent Israelite calendar closely resembled calendars elsewhere in the Near East, such as Babylon, where the new moon began a new week. To establish that one must follow the commands of Moses, one must also establish exactly how Moses would have understood the calendar. Surely you can't take the Gregorian Calendar as a given, nor it's predecessor, the Julian Calendar.
I don't know how you would demonstrate such a thing. Good luck.
That doesn't seem to apply to anyone who hasn't been a slave in Egypt.
In any case, I'm pretty skeptical of the thought that what we know as Saturday is the exact same day Moses would have recognized as the Sabbath. As far as I can tell, the most prevalent Israelite calendar closely resembled calendars elsewhere in the Near East, such as Babylon, where the new moon began a new week. To establish that one must follow the commands of Moses, one must also establish exactly how Moses would have understood the calendar. Surely you can't take the Gregorian Calendar as a given, nor it's predecessor, the Julian Calendar.
I don't know how you would demonstrate such a thing. Good luck.
-Astronomy observence
"By calculating the eclipses, it can be proven that no time has been lost and the
creation days were seven, divided into 24 hours each."—Dr. Hinkley,
The Watchman, July 1926 [Hinkley was a well-known astronomer].
"The human race never lost the septenary [seven day] sequence of week days and
that the Sabbath of these latter times comes down to us from Adam, though the ages,
without a single lapse."—Dr. Totten, professor of astronomy at Yale University.
"Seven has been the ancient and honored number among the nations of the earth.
They have measured their time by weeks from the beginning. The origin of this was
the Sabbath of God, as Moses has given the reasons for it in his writings."
—Dr. Lyman Coleman.
"There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in
any way the cycle of the week."—James Robertson, Director American Ephemeris,
Navy Department, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C., March 12, 1932.
"It can be said with assurance that not a day has been lost since Creation, and all
the calendar changes notwithstanding, there has been no break in the weekly cycle."
—Dr. Frank Jeffries, Fellow of the Royal Astronomical Society and Research
Director of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.
There is no question about which day the seventh day of the week is.
The weekly cycle the break between the shift from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar
In 1582, that Thursday the 4th was followed by Friday the 15th.
The weekly cycle was not interrupted. Now take a look at 1752, Wednesday
the 2nd was followed by Thursday the 14th. Again, the calendar had to be
adjusted to correct it to the seasons but the weekly cycle remained unchanged.
On the seventh day He MADE THE SABBATH! But the Sabbath was made, not by work,
but by rest. What He ended on the seventh day was the work of creation—that which was
created by work! On the seventh day He rested! He created the Sabbath by resting.
Was He so fatigued He was forced to stop and rest?
Positively not, for God “fainteth not, neither is weary”! (Isaiah 40:28).
Yet, this was a real rest, because in Exodus 31:17 it is written: “…
in six days the Lord [Christ] made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested,
and was refreshed.” Since He was “refreshed” by this rest, it was a real rest.
Yet He was not tired or weary! Why did He rest? To put His divine presence in that day!
He made the Sabbath day by resting, whereas He had made all other things by working!
Notice further! Also He “blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it”!
What does “sanctified” mean? Look in your dictionary.
It means “set apart, for holy use or purpose.” He set apart this day
from other days—set it apart for holy use—for a day of physical
rest, in which His people may assemble and worship God!
Therefore what God did—and God did it by Christ—
was to make future TIME holy!
No man has power to make anything holy. God alone is holy—or whatever God has
made holy! No group or organization of men has authority to make future time holy!
Gods presence is Holy
“Moses! Moses!” called God, “… put off thy shoes from off thy feet,
for the place whereon thou standest is HOLY GROUND” (Exodus 3:2-5).
The ground a mile away was not holy. Why did it make any difference whether Moses
took off his shoes—or where? Here is why! The ground where he then stood was holy .
He was required, by God, to treat holy ground with a respect he did not treat other ground.
And why? Well, what made that particular bit of ground holy?
God’s very presence was in that ground! God is holy !
God’s presence in that bush made the ground around it holy!
In the very same manner, God’s presence is in His Sabbath.
He rested on that first Sabbath to put His presence in that day!
This made it holy time! Four thousand years later, when this same “Logos,” or “Word,”
was made flesh—when He came as Jesus Christ in the human flesh—
He was still putting His presence in that same weekly recurring Sabbath—
He went into the synagogues as His custom was!
but by rest. What He ended on the seventh day was the work of creation—that which was
created by work! On the seventh day He rested! He created the Sabbath by resting.
Was He so fatigued He was forced to stop and rest?
Positively not, for God “fainteth not, neither is weary”! (Isaiah 40:28).
Yet, this was a real rest, because in Exodus 31:17 it is written: “…
in six days the Lord [Christ] made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested,
and was refreshed.” Since He was “refreshed” by this rest, it was a real rest.
Yet He was not tired or weary! Why did He rest? To put His divine presence in that day!
He made the Sabbath day by resting, whereas He had made all other things by working!
Notice further! Also He “blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it”!
What does “sanctified” mean? Look in your dictionary.
It means “set apart, for holy use or purpose.” He set apart this day
from other days—set it apart for holy use—for a day of physical
rest, in which His people may assemble and worship God!
Therefore what God did—and God did it by Christ—
was to make future TIME holy!
No man has power to make anything holy. God alone is holy—or whatever God has
made holy! No group or organization of men has authority to make future time holy!
Gods presence is Holy
“Moses! Moses!” called God, “… put off thy shoes from off thy feet,
for the place whereon thou standest is HOLY GROUND” (Exodus 3:2-5).
The ground a mile away was not holy. Why did it make any difference whether Moses
took off his shoes—or where? Here is why! The ground where he then stood was holy .
He was required, by God, to treat holy ground with a respect he did not treat other ground.
And why? Well, what made that particular bit of ground holy?
God’s very presence was in that ground! God is holy !
God’s presence in that bush made the ground around it holy!
In the very same manner, God’s presence is in His Sabbath.
He rested on that first Sabbath to put His presence in that day!
This made it holy time! Four thousand years later, when this same “Logos,” or “Word,”
was made flesh—when He came as Jesus Christ in the human flesh—
He was still putting His presence in that same weekly recurring Sabbath—
He went into the synagogues as His custom was!
Jesus was born under the law and fulfilled all the requirements of the law so that we could be free from the law to become children of God. Jesus had to fulfill the whole law for us.
To go back to "law-keeping" is committing spiritual adultery on the Lord Jesus. Romans 7:1-6 tells us that when one dies they are free from the law. We have died with Christ on the cross and now we are alive in the spirit to be joined unto Him.
Galatians 4:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Jesus living inside of us is more then enough. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus , the law of love, the law of faith and the law of Christ in us is all we need to live now. We can trust the Holy Spirit to lead us in this life.
Here is what we are doing by going back to the law.
To go back to "law-keeping" is committing spiritual adultery on the Lord Jesus. Romans 7:1-6 tells us that when one dies they are free from the law. We have died with Christ on the cross and now we are alive in the spirit to be joined unto Him.
Galatians 4:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Jesus living inside of us is more then enough. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus , the law of love, the law of faith and the law of Christ in us is all we need to live now. We can trust the Holy Spirit to lead us in this life.
Here is what we are doing by going back to the law.
D
1. Those you follow -- aka the links you provided and other sources -- do have names associated with them. Your two choices in life is to agree with a group you run across and then stick with that kind of teaching or reinvent your own wheel. You do read along the lines of some group and agree with it, so you are of that group, therefore you aren't completely reinventing the wheel. I, myself, am part of the Reformed Group. Most don't understand that reference so I use the reference they understand -- Calvinist. I'm not keen on the comparison, because Calvin got some stuff wrong, but at least people get a general understanding of what I believe by me using the name people associated my kind of thinking. In like kind, you could do the same, but seem reluctant to do so. That makes me suspect you are ashamed of whatever group you are with, thus less likely to have me trust what you believe.
2. I do have a KJV and a Strong's. I STILL don't speak in Ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, or Ancient Greek, therefore I accept the translation into English of all the words -- proper noun or not. In what country is Jerusalem? In what country is Athens?
If you just answered "Israel" or "Greece," you certainly do understand translating words into English, because I can guarantee people in Israel don't call their country Israel, and people in Greece don't call their country Greece. We've anglicized the words. So your excuse doesn't hold water and also makes me trust you less.
3. "No names needed." I'm not keen on someone resetting the rules as they go along. First, it was only use God's words. Then it was a couple of links. More and more links will come along as you see fit, and yet you already set it up that no one else can do what you're doing. You've already told us we can only use the Bible, and I suspect you mean THE only bible -- The KJV. (Not sure about that yet, so could be wrong there.) I get this behavior. What you're really doing is slowly weaning people into buying your gospel. You have to wean people into it, because if anyone heard the name of your group, it would be a turn off. Most people would stop listening to anything you said. But something compels you to turn people into like-minded. This also causes me to lose trust with you. (And I do get people are turned off when they realize I am Calvinist, but I'm not ashamed of being one, nor do I believe Calvinism saves. Jesus saves. Calvinism just makes the Bible a whole, instead of a piecemeal book. Jesus still saves, even if he saves someone without ever getting that part through to him/her in this lifetime.)
4. That you still managed to ignore Crossnote's and HeRose's charges also makes me suspect of your beliefs. They're understandable. Both have charged you with preaching a false gospel and yet you ignored them and now pretend you don't understand the questions.
These are not vague charges.:
"Phony. Fake. Taken from rabbinical treatises against Catholicism."
"Take a look. A primer on the absurdities of the Sacred Name Movement by a Messianic Jew. Only 11min.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx8hi4Dpaas"
Again, I'm Calvinist. I catch flack over that one enough to know when someone is calling me something I'm not -- "Hyper-Calvinist." I do respond to the charges, even when I won't argue the point. I don't just ignore them, simply because that leaves the stench that I am ashamed of what I am. You have not done that, therefore the stench grew. And I don't pretend I don't understand.
Most of the time you pretend to know more than the rest of us. Sometimes you pretend you know nothing. Both of those also leave a negative odor too.
Since you will not say what you believe and yet expect us to fall in line, maybe this needs to be said. Not a chance! Most of us just aren't that naive or stupid.
If you ever want to come clean and just seriously talk it out, let me know and I'll give you a second chance. You've used up your first-impression though, and it's not good.
Don't think that means you've lost any chance. I often give a bad first impression too. (Funny thing. I started with a good first impression for you, but you ignored me. This IS my second impression. Chances are good this ends here because you won't want to try for third impression. As someone who gives lousy first impressions, I'm more willing than most to keep trying with someone new, until it's just not worth the effort anymore.)
One thing I got going for me -- honesty!
2. I do have a KJV and a Strong's. I STILL don't speak in Ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, or Ancient Greek, therefore I accept the translation into English of all the words -- proper noun or not. In what country is Jerusalem? In what country is Athens?
If you just answered "Israel" or "Greece," you certainly do understand translating words into English, because I can guarantee people in Israel don't call their country Israel, and people in Greece don't call their country Greece. We've anglicized the words. So your excuse doesn't hold water and also makes me trust you less.
3. "No names needed." I'm not keen on someone resetting the rules as they go along. First, it was only use God's words. Then it was a couple of links. More and more links will come along as you see fit, and yet you already set it up that no one else can do what you're doing. You've already told us we can only use the Bible, and I suspect you mean THE only bible -- The KJV. (Not sure about that yet, so could be wrong there.) I get this behavior. What you're really doing is slowly weaning people into buying your gospel. You have to wean people into it, because if anyone heard the name of your group, it would be a turn off. Most people would stop listening to anything you said. But something compels you to turn people into like-minded. This also causes me to lose trust with you. (And I do get people are turned off when they realize I am Calvinist, but I'm not ashamed of being one, nor do I believe Calvinism saves. Jesus saves. Calvinism just makes the Bible a whole, instead of a piecemeal book. Jesus still saves, even if he saves someone without ever getting that part through to him/her in this lifetime.)
4. That you still managed to ignore Crossnote's and HeRose's charges also makes me suspect of your beliefs. They're understandable. Both have charged you with preaching a false gospel and yet you ignored them and now pretend you don't understand the questions.
These are not vague charges.:
"Phony. Fake. Taken from rabbinical treatises against Catholicism."
"Take a look. A primer on the absurdities of the Sacred Name Movement by a Messianic Jew. Only 11min.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx8hi4Dpaas"
Again, I'm Calvinist. I catch flack over that one enough to know when someone is calling me something I'm not -- "Hyper-Calvinist." I do respond to the charges, even when I won't argue the point. I don't just ignore them, simply because that leaves the stench that I am ashamed of what I am. You have not done that, therefore the stench grew. And I don't pretend I don't understand.
Most of the time you pretend to know more than the rest of us. Sometimes you pretend you know nothing. Both of those also leave a negative odor too.
Since you will not say what you believe and yet expect us to fall in line, maybe this needs to be said. Not a chance! Most of us just aren't that naive or stupid.
If you ever want to come clean and just seriously talk it out, let me know and I'll give you a second chance. You've used up your first-impression though, and it's not good.
Don't think that means you've lost any chance. I often give a bad first impression too. (Funny thing. I started with a good first impression for you, but you ignored me. This IS my second impression. Chances are good this ends here because you won't want to try for third impression. As someone who gives lousy first impressions, I'm more willing than most to keep trying with someone new, until it's just not worth the effort anymore.)
One thing I got going for me -- honesty!
D
Bupkis.
I love my husband because he is kind, loving, honest, has a great sense of humor, smart, beautiful blue eyes, trust me, and trust God more. That is who he is and I love him for it.
The Law is who God is and I love him for that. He is truly like that and is perfect because he is like that.
Stop separating God from whom he is and then cutting him down to just one thing -- his grace. Kind of like saying I only love hubby for his beautiful blue eyes.
I love my husband because he is kind, loving, honest, has a great sense of humor, smart, beautiful blue eyes, trust me, and trust God more. That is who he is and I love him for it.
The Law is who God is and I love him for that. He is truly like that and is perfect because he is like that.
Stop separating God from whom he is and then cutting him down to just one thing -- his grace. Kind of like saying I only love hubby for his beautiful blue eyes.