Why is the bible so open to interpretation?

[FlSnookman7]

The rules are tidy. Grace is messy, unpredictable, unquantifiable. I can hold my life up against a set of rules and easily determine if I’m a good person or a bad person. I can do the same with your life, and I can do it from a distance, without having to mess with relationship and compassion and the grittiness of real life. Not so with grace.
Grace risks its reputation to eat with notorious sinners. It sacrifices its schedule to help hurting people. Grace doesn’t allow us the luxury of aloofness. It doesn’t get so distracted with doing good things that it forgets about people. If you choose to live by grace and not by rules, you are in for some messy moments. But once you’ve embraced grace, you’ll never let go.
~Judah Smith

 

[DP]

He forgives all our sin. This is I believe knowing if we violate the least of his law we are guilty of the whole. Every sin carries the eternal damnation, as the wage due. Therefore every thing that is not of His faith is sin.



It is how natural man works without the Spirit of Christ. We do not look at their behavior but the behavior of those who have been born again. If any man has not the Spirit of Christ they simply do not belong to Him.




It allows natural, unconverted man without the Spirit of Christ to continue in sin and not aspire to the kingdom



I see that a little differently knowing our confidence in Christ as new creatures makes us complete or perfect. It’s our relationship with Him that does matter because he paid the eternal wage.

According to Galatians 3, Christ’s first work, working in us is called the hearing of faith (His faith)This is not from our own conscience as a faith that comes from us imagining through our fleshly minds. If he has begun it according to Galatians 3 we do not look to our flesh to finish it. That would prove to be an empty boast in vain.

If he has begun making us perfect (complete in Him) he will finish the work And forgive us of all our sin past, present and future. It is why called it is called gospel (good news) and not good advice on how to be saved as a work we could do till the end.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

It means because the ticket was bought with a work of His own faith as a labor of His love. We therefore have His confidence to know it is not a ticket that allows us to sin but when we do deny his grace when we sin and he turns us back to himself by the grace we did deny , after he turns us we then can repent. Seeing our sin has been paid in full and there would be nothing restricting us from being with him eternally. .

If Jesus had forgiven all future sin when we were baptized then those brethren still sinning afterwards are now doing it according to Faith???

You don't realize that is exactly... what you are saying, those false prophets having your mind under such confusion you don't even recognize that.

 

[PeterJens]

If Jesus had forgiven all future sin when we were baptized then those brethren still sinning afterwards are now doing it according to Faith???

You don't realize that is exactly... what you are saying, those false prophets having your mind under such confusion you don't even recognize that.

Once sin is no longer the issue in heaven, what is the point of morality, or why is there an
issue with holiness?

If magically people can go from sinners lost in sin to saints just by putting ones faith in Jesus,
why is there a problem in heaven with sin? Just put your faith in the right thing and the
consequences of sin disappear, though the person is still sinning.

Throughout scripture it is always predicated on a desire to walk in righteousness and leave
sin behind.

Why did Saul loose being King? Because he did not execute a King God had commanded
him to execute. Surely grace would have been enough.

Or the people of Israel called to enter Palestine. The people were strong, they were scared,
lets not try it. God judges them for a lack of faith. So they changed their mind, go to war
and loose. But surely this was a minor issue. No exiled to die in the desert.

Man always wants to compromise with sin. I mean it is only God, and he is just too harsh.

Yet the Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, people of Israel?
Is it not your ways that are unjust?
Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the
Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall.
Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit."
Ezek 18:29-31

These believers test the Lords patience and utter lies and condemnation against the word of
the Lord.

It is not mans judgement they test but the Lords, claiming to know Him yet preaching sin is ok,
not an issue. How many fall under Gods hand, we will wait to see.

 

[Grace777x70]

Forgiveness is a done deal - either believe it or don't believe it.

On the subject of forgiveness that we have in Christ now because of His precious Blood...here is what the scriptures say.....sometimes the truth in the gospel of the grace of Christ "conflicts" with what we have been religiously taught.

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

have been forgiven = perfect passive

perfect = The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present time. It is continuously happening in the present.

passive = voice = action is happening to you....you are not doing it

Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous completed state and that was put on them....not something they did.

Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

We have redemption = present continuous action...so this means we have present continuous forgiveness of our sins...

and look...that grace stuff shows up again!...it's all according to the riches of our loving Father's grace that He has given to us in Christ our Lord.

Colossians 1:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

[SUP]14 [/SUP] in whomwe have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Same thing here too...present continuous action = forgiveness of sins


Redemption!..we have been bought with the precious Blood of Jesus... Let's honor His work.


Brethren ...we have a great salvation in our Lord!

Walk in the knowledge of your forgiveness in Christ and in that security we will experience maturity.

 

[Katy-follower]

But then again I would love to be able to read the bible in Hebrew

I've always wanted to learn Hebrew, and since I'm part Israeli I kind of feel like I need to learn the language of my ancestors, but I find it intimidating. How rewarding would it be though, to learn the Holy tongue, although everything is written backwards! It makes no difference what language we speak, but certainly would love to learn it

Maybe we can start a thread on here so all can learn?

 

[DP]

Once sin is no longer the issue in heaven, what is the point of morality, or why is there an
issue with holiness?

If magically people can go from sinners lost in sin to saints just by putting ones faith in Jesus,
why is there a problem in heaven with sin? Just put your faith in the right thing and the
consequences of sin disappear, though the person is still sinning.

Throughout scripture it is always predicated on a desire to walk in righteousness and leave
sin behind.

Why did Saul loose being King? Because he did not execute a King God had commanded
him to execute. Surely grace would have been enough.

Or the people of Israel called to enter Palestine. The people were strong, they were scared,
lets not try it. God judges them for a lack of faith. So they changed their mind, go to war
and loose. But surely this was a minor issue. No exiled to die in the desert.

Man always wants to compromise with sin. I mean it is only God, and he is just too harsh.

Yet the Israelites say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Are my ways unjust, people of Israel?
Is it not your ways that are unjust?
Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the
Sovereign Lord. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall.
Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit."
Ezek 18:29-31

These believers test the Lords patience and utter lies and condemnation against the word of
the Lord.

It is not mans judgement they test but the Lords, claiming to know Him yet preaching sin is ok,
not an issue. How many fall under Gods hand, we will wait to see.

I find the issue of our walk with The Father and The Son after having believed and baptized as very simple, as it works like a healthy family works.

When a child does a wrong, the father is still going to love the child. But a good father will expect the child to REPENT of the wrong and make a change, otherwise the child did not learn a lesson from it. Our Heavenly Father and His Son is no different in that respect.

Just like a child who did wrong and knows it, but refuses to REPENT of it, God sees that child in rebellion. Refusing to repent is an act of stubborness, and stubborness to God is like rebellion...

1 Sam 15:23
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
KJV

 

[PeterJens]

Forgiveness is a done deal - either believe it or don't believe it..... Walk in the knowledge of your forgiveness in Christ and in that security we will experience maturity.

The Lord is very plain about forgiveness.

How can you be forgiven much, our whole lives, and yet hold unforgiveness against others for things which are much more minor?

Read the parable of the unforgiving servant. It does not get simpler than this.
The Lords prayer.

Why would anyone want to argue with this spiritual reality?

Because it is a spiritual reality and the scheme of the evil one is to deceive as
many as possible. The heart in man is so wicked, any self justification is acceptable.

Literally there is no reason why we should not forgive everyone in our lives.
Sin binds all and makes them a slave to sin, pain, anger, hatred. It is this bitterness
that clings to the pain and says, "I will not forgive them"

But then this is no surprise to me this stubborness exists, as unforgiveness is part
of pride and lack of brokeness.

 

[TonyJay]

The Lord is very plain about forgiveness.

How can you be forgiven much, our whole lives, and yet hold unforgiveness against others for things which are much more minor?

Read the parable of the unforgiving servant. It does not get simpler than this.
The Lords prayer.

Why would anyone want to argue with this spiritual reality?

Because it is a spiritual reality and the scheme of the evil one is to deceive as
many as possible. The heart in man is so wicked, any self justification is acceptable.

Literally there is no reason why we should not forgive everyone in our lives.
Sin binds all and makes them a slave to sin, pain, anger, hatred. It is this bitterness
that clings to the pain and says, "I will not forgive them"

But then this is no surprise to me this stubborness exists, as unforgiveness is part
of pride and lack of brokeness.

So, Peter, are you agreeing or disagreeing with Grace777?

 

[PeterJens]

I do not agree with Grace7 on most things

 

[TonyJay]

I do not agree with Grace7 on most things

So, you are just shooting blanks again, then.

 

[PeterJens]

So, Peter, are you agreeing or disagreeing with Grace777?

Scripture lays out a simple relationship formula. God forgives us, so we should forgive everyone else
on a personal level.

The reality is if we are forgiven and then do not forgive, the forgiveness is removed and we are placed
back in debt. Jesus was very specific about this principle.

Matt 18:23-35 The unmerciful servant

Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.
Matt 18:32-35

This is brutal. For those who believe once saved always saved, Jesus cannot be saying this,
because how can a saved person be thrown out. But here it is again.

 

[PeterJens]

So, you are just shooting blanks again, then.

To be honest I was just realising I had double posted and needed to respond quickly.
What I write is simply where my heart is and what I read.

I thank you for pushing me. Opposition is part of defining and understanding where the
Lord really is. I need to understand and walk in so much more.

In the west we avoid Lukes version of the sermon on the mount, because it is largely
based around poverty and being poor. Luke is saying poverty is something on the Lords
heart, because it is not the wealthy who are often righteous, but the people who work
hard for little or no reward, and just want to do things well. I am living in unbelievable
privilege and wealth, and the hard things I face are like nothing.

But to admit this in a health/wealth church would be very hard. But it is the truth.
Wealth often corrupts the soul, brings pride to people over things they do not deserve.
Look at all the rivalry around mega yatchs in Monaco as just one example of this.

 

[TonyJay]

Scripture lays out a simple relationship formula. God forgives us, so we should forgive everyone else
on a personal level.

The reality is if we are forgiven and then do not forgive, the forgiveness is removed and we are placed
back in debt. Jesus was very specific about this principle.

Matt 18:23-35 The unmerciful servant

Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.
Matt 18:32-35

This is brutal. For those who believe once saved always saved, Jesus cannot be saying this,
because how can a saved person be thrown out. But here it is again.

I believe very much in forgiveness.
I believe in forgiveness precisely because my sins are forgiven (by grace through faith) because of the completed work of Christ Jesus on the cross.
However, the transactional basis of forgiveness that you outline is certainly in operation under the Law of Moses.

Under the law of grace however I forgive because I want to emulate Christ Jesus NOT because of fear that I might lose my salvation.
What I see from you is a 'gospel' based on fear.
These is simply no good news in what you preach.
In fact, based on what you preach your salvation is gone, killed off by sin that you will not recognise as sin.
Sad isn't it.

However, my Father in Heaven is faithful to forgive my sins and to cleanse me from all unrighteousness.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Under the law of grace however I forgive because I want to emulate Christ Jesus NOT because of fear that I might lose my salvation.

There. You said it. I've been waiting for this moment. False grace believers have made grace law. Grace instead of law. Anti-law, anti-nomian.

 

[PeterJens]

So, you are just shooting blanks again, then.

Tony, being honest I do not understand your position. Are you so compromised you accept
Jesus's preaching was simply to show man in sinful. Read the old testament, there is no doubting this.

All the preachers of Jesus's time were offering a way to the Kingdom.
The Lords prayer starts
Oh Father, who is in heaven, Hallowed be your name, Your Kingdom come.

Jesus is establishing the Kingdom.
The transfiguration on the mount is Jesus coming in authority to bring His kingdom
to earth.

Pentecost is the beginning of the Kingdom among us.
Why is it you deny righteousness and purity? Are you so lost in sin the idea of
literally being cleansed and transformed so you are like Christ is just too much to
accept. It is easier to believe God just forgives you, end of story.

And ofcourse the answer is yes, because it only means you have to say yes to
Jesus. In your faith God does everything, you are just a helpless pawn.

 

[TonyJay]

There. You said it. I've been waiting for this moment. False grace believers have made grace law. Grace instead of law. Anti-law, anti-nomian.

The context of what I mean is pretty clear:
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a]who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. (Rom 8:1-2)



What is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus that has made me free from the law of sin and death?
None other than this:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Eph 2:8-9)

If you want to accuse Paul - please go ahead.
As for me if I am to be accused alongside Paul I will gladly stand with him!

Call me anything you like but be prepared to label the apostle Paul in like fashion!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The context of what I mean is pretty clear:
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a]who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. (Rom 8:1-2)



What is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus that has made me free from the law of sin and death?
None other than this:
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Eph 2:8-9)

If you want to accuse Paul - please go ahead.
As for me if I am to be accused alongside Paul I will gladly stand with him!

Call me anything you like but be prepared to label the apostle Paul in like fashion!

The law is the spirit (of life in Christ), not grace.

 

[TonyJay]

The law is the spirit (of life in Christ), not grace.

I think you need to elaborate on what YOU think that means - do you not.

 

[PeterJens]

I believe very much in forgiveness.
I believe in forgiveness precisely because my sins are forgiven (by grace through faith) because of the completed work of Christ Jesus on the cross.
However, the transactional basis of forgiveness that you outline is certainly in operation under the Law of Moses.

Under the law of grace however I forgive because I want to emulate Christ Jesus NOT because of fear that I might lose my salvation.
What I see from you is a 'gospel' based on fear.
These is simply no good news in what you preach.
In fact, based on what you preach your salvation is gone, killed off by sin that you will not recognise as sin.
Sad isn't it.

However, my Father in Heaven is faithful to forgive my sins and to cleanse me from all unrighteousness.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)

"I forgive because I want to emulate Christ Jesus"

I find this interesting. So your sense or reason for forgiveness is just because Jesus forgives.
I forgive because I love the sinner, and who am I to hold anything against anyone when I have
been forgiven so much.

You say I forgive out of fear of God. I have never thought like that but that is also a good reason
to forgive, but fear never drives forgiveness, it is about mercy or love towards the sinner.

Emulating Jesus is a little outside my thinking. I want to know the world and life as He knows it,
to respond as he responds, not like a mirror image, but because that to my heart is life itself.

This may sound odd, idolising a person is not healthy, but knowing someone and respecting how
they function, and worshiping the Lord for who He is, is life itself.

The more I see of God, His word, His message, my heart sings. I am humbled, blown over, amazed,
so deep, so profound, so incredible. But it is not like I choose to obey the law, or invent things,
this is just my response to my King.

 

[Grace777x70]

We have a choice either to believe in Jesus and the New Covenant or not. The New Covenant started after Jesus shed His blood and died and then rose again.

Here is a visual about forgiveness before the cross and after the cross for those that like them... Jesus finished work on the cross changed everything for us . We have a great complete salvation in Him.

Isn't lifting up Jesus and the gospel much better then beating the sheep up with death, dying, accursed, evil, destruction,..etc?