Does it make a difference any more?

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M

Miri

Guest
#41
My pet peeve is when my iPad attempts to change Brit English to US English.


Right: Colour Wrong: Color
Right: Offence Wrong: Offense
Right: Paralyse Wrong: Paralyze


I suppose it's easier to play scrabble when you use all those "Zs" lol

Christopher Columbus must have left his dictionary at home that day. :D

Ps I have no idea how pavement changed to sidewalk, car boot changed to trunk,
or how motorway became freeway.


And I won't even tell you what fanny means in the UK, suffice to say it does not
mean your bottom!
 
M

Miri

Guest
#42
Today I corrected the following for someone:

The person said, "They gave it to Jerry and I." I told them to remove Jerry's name from the sentence then asked how they would say the sentence. They said, "They gave it to me." I asked why they didn't say, "They gave it to I?" The person said it wouldn't be correct to say that. I informed them that having Jerry's name as part of the sentence does not change "me" to "I". They understood and were appreciative. :)

So who is Jerry and can me (oops sorry I) have some.
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#43
My pet peeve is when my iPad attempts to change Brit English to US English.


Right: Colour Wrong: Color
Right: Offence Wrong: Offense
Right: Paralyse Wrong: Paralyze


I suppose it's easier to play scrabble when you use all those "Zs" lol

Christopher Columbus must have left his dictionary at home that day. :D

Ps I have no idea how pavement changed to sidewalk, car boot changed to trunk,
or how motorway became freeway.


And I won't even tell you what fanny means in the UK, suffice to say it does not
mean your bottom!
Uh-huh.... the color / colour thing drives me crazy.
The browser I am using now has no dictionary, so it underlines everything, and makes all the subjects captialized !
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#44
The double quotes (") are for when you are quoting something someone actually said. Single quote (') is when you want to highlight or paraphrase something.

Use a comma wherever you would stop and take a breath is what one teacher taught me.

I have some aphasia but it's in speaking. My brain will think of two different ways to say something, my lips will sputter out some weird combination of them.

Ain't we humans a funny lot?
I was taught, the comma is, whenever you want someone to pause after a thought, but, I want people, to catch every thought.

On the other hand, I tend to drive VA employees up a wall because sometimes I have to run down hubby's story -- short form -- before explaining what I need them to do and I can do that without pausing. lol
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
467
83
#45
Our elders were correct.
I remember my grade school teacher was mortified by the advertisement "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should."
She once spoke in length about this in class. And all these years later I still recall what she said.
She said this would open the door for future mangling of the language. She said that people of her generation with at least a high school education generally took the stance that the formal use of language and it's rules should be followed, with no, or very few exceptions. She said they were rules for a reason.
She said that the use of language reflects a society's culture, wants and needs, self image, views, environment, preferences, priority's, structure, and intelligence. She went on to say that the younger generation was using the language in a more lax manner, and that it may seem trivial, but that doing so would have a detrimental effect on society in the long term.
I was young, maybe 13 years old, and I thought she was crazy to state these things. I was of the opinion what is the difference? Language is for communication, as long as that is accomplished, the job is done. Leave the complex stuff to the poets and mensa's, I thought.
The older generation of the late 60's and early 70's (and earlier then that) were also very critical of rock and roll music, and cursing, and "free love."
Most of us younger folk were of the mind that they were just clueless, and maybe even mean spirited, with their constant and loud disapproval of what we regarded as a much needed change and loosening up of their very uptight society.
We saw the way they had managed America, the wars, the consumerism, the pollution, their treatment of minorities, and the embedded hypocrisy, and were resolutely against much of what they said and how they conducted themselves.
It turns out that while that younger generation was right in examining and rejecting many things about the America our parents and grandparents were passing on to us, it was a classic example of "don't throw the baby out with the bath water" scenario.
Turns out they were right about many things though. Sex out of marriage and multiple partners and sex with someone of the same gender is a absolute abomination. They were correct in stating that some of the music of their children and grand children could be destructive. The music that provoked acid trips, and the violent lyrics of rap are proof of that. The use of cursing in our speech is something that can be demonic.
The people who suffered through the depression and who fought WW ll and who were proud of a soft American imperialism were flawed, no doubt. And it is fair to say that maybe they were even control freaks, and fearful of, the younger people, but with age comes some wisdom, and they saw that some of what was going on in the younger segment of the population was one day going to extract a heavy payment. Reaping and sowing.
The bible is never wrong. It talks about the sons respecting the fathers, and the fathers not exasperating the their sons.
So yeah, imho, bad grammar and spelling and general laziness in using language is just of reflection of how our American civilization has fallen. And you know the old saying, it is still true today; how America goes, the world goes.
From Wilki:
Grammar controversy[edit]


During the campaign's long run in the media, many criticized the slogan as grammatically incorrect and that it should say, "Winston tastes good as a cigarette should." Ogden Nash, in The New Yorker, published a poem that ran "Likegoes Madison Avenue, like so goes the nation."[SUP][10][/SUP] Walter Cronkite, then hosting The Morning Show, refused to say the line as written, and an announcer was used instead.[SUP][11][/SUP]
Malcolm Gladwell, in The Tipping Point, says that this "ungrammatical and somehow provocative use of 'like' instead of 'as' created a minor sensation" in 1954 and implies that the phrase itself was responsible for vaulting the brand to second place in the U.S. market.[SUP][12][/SUP]Winston overtook Pall Mall cigarettes as the #1 cigarette in the United States in 1966, while the advertising campaign continued to make an impression on the mass media.
In the fall of 1961, a small furor enveloped the literary and journalistic communities in the United States when Merriam-Webster published its Third New International Dictionary. In the dictionary, the editors refused to condemn the use of "like" as a conjunction, and cited "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should" as an example of popular colloquial use. After publication of Webster's Third, The New York Times called the edition "bolshevik," and the Chicago Daily News wrote that the transgression signified "a general decay in values."[SUP][13][/SUP]
When the players in The Beverly Hillbillies spoke the line, they stretched the grammatical boundaries further:
Jed: Winston tastes good...Granny: Like a cigarette had ought-a!In 1970 and 1971, Winston sought to revamp its image and chose to respond to many grammarians' qualms with the slogan, "What do you want, good grammar or good taste?" Mad magazine published a parody of this on the back cover of its January 1971 issue; set in a cemetery, it featured four tombstones with epitaphs written in the past tense ("Winston tasted good like a cigarette should've" "You mean 'as a cigarette should've'" "What did you want, good grammar or good taste?" "I wanted to live a lot longer than this!"). With the new slogan in wide use, "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should" was retired permanently in 1972.
In 1981, actor James Garner claimed responsibility for the wording of the slogan during an interview with Playboy magazine. Garner, who narrated the original commercial, stated that his first action ever to be captured on film was to misread the line that had been provided to him.[SUP][14][/SUP] However, as noted above, the advertisements first appeared in print before their debut on television, which would cast doubt on Garner's claim.

From a article on the net about the use of "like" and "as":

Should I write, “It's as if he is the only teacher who understands we have other classes," or “It's like he is the only teacher who understands we have other classes”? Believe it or not, saying "like" can lead you into a raging grammar war..
Like Versus As

The root of this “like versus as” controversy is that traditionally like is a preposition and as is a conjunction. Nevertheless, people have been usinglike as if it were a conjunction (as I did) for at least 100 years, and grammarians have been raging against that use for just as long. In fact, the Harper Dictionary of Contemporary Usage states that “probably no single question of usage has created greater controversy in recent years” than the conjunctive use of like.

In 1954, an advertising campaign for Winston cigarettes brought the debate into the public eye. Winston said their cigarettes tasted good “like a cigarette should,” and language lovers were outraged because the ad should have said, their cigarettes tasted good “as a cigarette should.”
What Are Prepositions and Conjunctions?

Let’s quickly review what a preposition is, and what a conjunction is. According to the bookWoe Is I, a preposition is “a word that ‘positions’ or situates words in relation to one another.” Examples are in, around, and through. A conjunction is, simply, “a connecting word.” Common conjunctions are and, but, and or (1).

When to Use Like, When to Use As

The proper way to differentiate between like and as is to use like when no verb follows (2). For example, Squiggly throws like a raccoon or Aardvark acted just like my brother. Notice that when I use like, the words that come after are generally simple. A raccoon and my brother are the objects of the preposition.
If the clause that comes next includes a verb, then you should use as. For example,Squiggly throws as if he were a raccoon or Aardvark acted just as I would expect my brother to behave. Notice that when I use as, the words that come after tend to be more complex.
You generally hear like used in everyday speech, so that helps me remember that like is the simpler word—or at least it is followed by simpler words. As sounds stuffier and is followed by a more complex clause that contains a verb.


And last, that old Winston commercial that was probably the first, and one of the most influential mass medium uses of bad grammar in America. It opened the door for the cascade of what was to come.

[video=youtube;qcq7FCZgLtE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcq7FCZgLtE[/video]
 
Last edited:
D

Depleted

Guest
#46
My pet peeve is when my iPad attempts to change Brit English to US English.


Right: Colour Wrong: Color
Right: Offence Wrong: Offense
Right: Paralyse Wrong: Paralyze


I suppose it's easier to play scrabble when you use all those "Zs" lol

Christopher Columbus must have left his dictionary at home that day. :D

Ps I have no idea how pavement changed to sidewalk, car boot changed to trunk,
or how motorway became freeway.


And I won't even tell you what fanny means in the UK, suffice to say it does not
mean your bottom!
I learned Search Engine Optimising on a forum with mostly Brits and Canadians. I no longer remember who uses optimize and who uses optimize. My spell checker recognizes both.

But you're just wrong with color. :p

Pavement is blacktop. Sidewalks are cement. Why are you putting your luggage in a boot? And freeway? I don't get it either, since most of our freeways cost a toll.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,927
1,267
113
#47
what really burns my britches is when people don't capitalize properly. :mad:

or perhaps don't capitalise properly.

i don't know. :p

homonym, homophone, homograph... this grammar nazi says we can learn the difference. ;)
 
M

Miri

Guest
#48
I learned Search Engine Optimising on a forum with mostly Brits and Canadians. I no longer remember who uses optimize and who uses optimize. My spell checker recognizes both.

But you're just wrong with color. :p

Pavement is blacktop. Sidewalks are cement. Why are you putting your luggage in a boot? And freeway? I don't get it either, since most of our freeways cost a toll.


Colour is definately right. Lol otherwise you end up saying col-or (as in rhyme with for) :p
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#49
Colour is definately right. Lol otherwise you end up saying col-or (as in rhyme with for) :p
So now you can rhyme with flavour instead?
 
M

Miri

Guest
#50
My post from last year in this thread, it seemed appropriate.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/111652-long-posts-2.html?




Re: Long posts


Ah yes good people
the problem of long posts.

Once upon a time
a very long time ago
before the days of Noah
and possibly before the
Tower of Babel,
lengthy hand written
essays and dissertations
were not only encouraged
they were demanded,
accompanied with correct
grammar (or is that grandma
just putting that in to see if
you are still reading
:D).
Then along came Babel,
texting, facebook and
numerous social media
sites.

A whole new world
opened up and for
the first time a person
could divulge their
deepest darkest
secrets to the
entire world
with one click of
a button.

However, so could
everyone else.
So in an attempt
to make sure your
deepest darkest
secrets were read
first, strange new
words were introduced
such as lol, C u ltr,
Op, thx the like of
which had never
been seen before.
(if you are still
reading give yourself
a medal).

Then some people
discovered they could
sum up all of their
deepest darkest
secrets with one
symbol such as
:mad::confused::eek:.

Additionally words
such as eh, aargh,
Zzzzz, sigh started
to become very
popular, whereas
words such as thee,
thy and thine become
lost.

Mankind pondered over
this and started to
wonder what language
was spoken before Babel
but no one could remember.
So they lol and time
moved on with words
and posts getting shorter
and shorter, until
one day the only
sound that could
be heard was the
occasional grunt
and big foot was born!

So the moral of this
story, is, actually
I haven't a clue I just
wanted to
annoy everyone with
a long post. :p
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#51
In Norway we have people who don't know the difference between to do (å) , andand (og)
:mad:
 
J

jennymae

Guest
#52
In Norway we have people who don't know the difference between to do (å) , andand (og)
:mad:
That language of yours is so darn difficult that I'm not surprised hearing that not even Norwegians gets it:p
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#54
Our elders were correct.
I remember my grade school teacher was mortified by the advertisement "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should."
She once spoke in length about this in class. And all these years later I still recall what she said.
She said this would open the door for future mangling of the language. She said that people of her generation with at least a high school education generally took the stance that the formal use of language and it's rules should be followed, with no, or very few exceptions. She said they were rules for a reason.
She said that the use of language reflects a society's culture, wants and needs, self image, views, environment, preferences, priority's, structure, and intelligence. She went on to say that the younger generation was using the language in a more lax manner, and that it may seem trivial, but that doing so would have a detrimental effect on society in the long term.
I was young, maybe 13 years old, and I thought she was crazy to state these things. I was of the opinion what is the difference? Language is for communication, as long as that is accomplished, the job is done. Leave the complex stuff to the poets and mensa's, I thought.
The older generation of the late 60's and early 70's (and earlier then that) were also very critical of rock and roll music, and cursing, and "free love."
Most of us younger folk were of the mind that they were just clueless, and maybe even mean spirited, with their constant and loud disapproval of what we regarded as a much needed change and loosening up of their very uptight society.
We saw the way they had managed America, the wars, the consumerism, the pollution, their treatment of minorities, and the embedded hypocrisy, and were resolutely against much of what they said and how they conducted themselves.
It turns out that while that younger generation was right in examining and rejecting many things about the America our parents and grandparents were passing on to us, it was a classic example of "don't throw the baby out with the bath water" scenario.
Turns out they were right about many things though. Sex out of marriage and multiple partners and sex with someone of the same gender is a absolute abomination. They were correct in stating that some of the music of their children and grand children could be destructive. The music that provoked acid trips, and the violent lyrics of rap are proof of that. The use of cursing in our speech is something that can be demonic.
The people who suffered through the depression and who fought WW ll and who were proud of a soft American imperialism were flawed, no doubt. And it is fair to say that maybe they were even control freaks, and fearful of, the younger people, but with age comes some wisdom, and they saw that some of what was going on in the younger segment of the population was one day going to extract a heavy payment. Reaping and sowing.
The bible is never wrong. It talks about the sons respecting the fathers, and the fathers not exasperating the their sons.
So yeah, imho, bad grammar and spelling and general laziness in using language is just of reflection of how our American civilization has fallen. And you know the old saying, it is still true today; how America goes, the world goes.
From Wilki:
Grammar controversy[edit]


During the campaign's long run in the media, many criticized the slogan as grammatically incorrect and that it should say, "Winston tastes good as a cigarette should." Ogden Nash, in The New Yorker, published a poem that ran "Likegoes Madison Avenue, like so goes the nation."[SUP][10][/SUP] Walter Cronkite, then hosting The Morning Show, refused to say the line as written, and an announcer was used instead.[SUP][11][/SUP]
Malcolm Gladwell, in The Tipping Point, says that this "ungrammatical and somehow provocative use of 'like' instead of 'as' created a minor sensation" in 1954 and implies that the phrase itself was responsible for vaulting the brand to second place in the U.S. market.[SUP][12][/SUP]Winston overtook Pall Mall cigarettes as the #1 cigarette in the United States in 1966, while the advertising campaign continued to make an impression on the mass media.
In the fall of 1961, a small furor enveloped the literary and journalistic communities in the United States when Merriam-Webster published its Third New International Dictionary. In the dictionary, the editors refused to condemn the use of "like" as a conjunction, and cited "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should" as an example of popular colloquial use. After publication of Webster's Third, The New York Times called the edition "bolshevik," and the Chicago Daily News wrote that the transgression signified "a general decay in values."[SUP][13][/SUP]
When the players in The Beverly Hillbillies spoke the line, they stretched the grammatical boundaries further:
Jed: Winston tastes good...Granny: Like a cigarette had ought-a!In 1970 and 1971, Winston sought to revamp its image and chose to respond to many grammarians' qualms with the slogan, "What do you want, good grammar or good taste?" Mad magazine published a parody of this on the back cover of its January 1971 issue; set in a cemetery, it featured four tombstones with epitaphs written in the past tense ("Winston tasted good like a cigarette should've" "You mean 'as a cigarette should've'" "What did you want, good grammar or good taste?" "I wanted to live a lot longer than this!"). With the new slogan in wide use, "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should" was retired permanently in 1972.
In 1981, actor James Garner claimed responsibility for the wording of the slogan during an interview with Playboy magazine. Garner, who narrated the original commercial, stated that his first action ever to be captured on film was to misread the line that had been provided to him.[SUP][14][/SUP] However, as noted above, the advertisements first appeared in print before their debut on television, which would cast doubt on Garner's claim.

From a article on the net about the use of "like" and "as":

Should I write, “It's as if he is the only teacher who understands we have other classes," or “It's like he is the only teacher who understands we have other classes”? Believe it or not, saying "like" can lead you into a raging grammar war..
Like Versus As

The root of this “like versus as” controversy is that traditionally like is a preposition and as is a conjunction. Nevertheless, people have been usinglike as if it were a conjunction (as I did) for at least 100 years, and grammarians have been raging against that use for just as long. In fact, the Harper Dictionary of Contemporary Usage states that “probably no single question of usage has created greater controversy in recent years” than the conjunctive use of like.

In 1954, an advertising campaign for Winston cigarettes brought the debate into the public eye. Winston said their cigarettes tasted good “like a cigarette should,” and language lovers were outraged because the ad should have said, their cigarettes tasted good “as a cigarette should.”
What Are Prepositions and Conjunctions?

Let’s quickly review what a preposition is, and what a conjunction is. According to the bookWoe Is I, a preposition is “a word that ‘positions’ or situates words in relation to one another.” Examples are in, around, and through. A conjunction is, simply, “a connecting word.” Common conjunctions are and, but, and or (1).

When to Use Like, When to Use As

The proper way to differentiate between like and as is to use like when no verb follows (2). For example, Squiggly throws like a raccoon or Aardvark acted just like my brother. Notice that when I use like, the words that come after are generally simple. A raccoon and my brother are the objects of the preposition.
If the clause that comes next includes a verb, then you should use as. For example,Squiggly throws as if he were a raccoon or Aardvark acted just as I would expect my brother to behave. Notice that when I use as, the words that come after tend to be more complex.
You generally hear like used in everyday speech, so that helps me remember that like is the simpler word—or at least it is followed by simpler words. As sounds stuffier and is followed by a more complex clause that contains a verb.


And last, that old Winston commercial that was probably the first, and one of the most influential mass medium uses of bad grammar in America. It opened the door for the cascade of what was to come.

[video=youtube;qcq7FCZgLtE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcq7FCZgLtE[/video]

Language does indeed evolve, but right and wrong doesn't (or shouldn't). And again, my biggest issue is that if you're not going to pay attention and get the small things right, then I don't trust you to get the big things right.

And NO cigarette tastes good!

(Cigars, on the other hand, smell absolutely wonderful - right up until you light them on fire!).
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,927
1,267
113
#56
Language does indeed evolve, but right and wrong doesn't (or shouldn't). And again, my biggest issue is that if you're not going to pay attention and get the small things right, then I don't trust you to get the big things right.

And NO cigarette tastes good!

(Cigars, on the other hand, smell absolutely wonderful - right up until you light them on fire!).
the rights and wrongs of English have been changing for a while. right or wrong. :rolleyes:

i read some geek language blogs that can be distressing before coffee.

also, my granddad smoked the occasional cigar, and they still smell good to me.
from a distance! ;)
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#57
I saw a guy use 'hear hear' in another thread and thought it was wrong (as opposed to here here). But I looked it up and whaddya know? Even the grammar nazi gets one wrong now and then! ;)
 

IDEAtor

Senior Member
Aug 15, 2012
827
19
18
#58
RickyZ,

I blame texting. I do not blame those who text, I blame the built-in auto-correct.
As more and more turn to the handheld, auto-correct is teaching us to accept errors, rather than correct them.

Try typing "Jesus loves you. Don't forget the bread." Like you, I am willing to bet that the majority of cellphone users will rapidly tap in such a simple message correctly. Only, the haughty auto-assistant will somehow manage to botch the message. "Bread" will become "Bricks." Therefore, while you stick to your analytical, super-correct ways rest a vast number is falling for another false savior: auto-correct.

[I am sure someone will (ahem) correct me.]

There, their, they're

your, you're, yore

to, too, two


Does the correct spelling and use of words count for anything anymore? Or has 'hooked on phonics' and texting made the differences meaningless?

It used to be that the improper use meant you were ignorant. Now evidently it just means your old.
 
Last edited:

IDEAtor

Senior Member
Aug 15, 2012
827
19
18
#59
I see the typo at the end. Oops.
 

Deidre

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2016
258
7
18
#60
It matters to meeeee! :D