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Now, back to 'Dear BibleGuy' and his points/issues:
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Originally Posted by BibleGuy
17. You wrote: “Torah, God's instructions before the Cross, were given to Israel at Sinai in the form of the Law.”
My response: And all Christians are included as fellow Israelites who partake in all the covenants between YHVH and Israel. Thus, all Christians should OBEY the Torah of these covenants in which they participate.
Moreover, AFTER the cross, the Apostles and Epistles continue to uphold and affirm our need to obey Mosaic Torah (e.g., 1 Cor. 7:19; 1 Jn. 5:3).
Let's take a look at those passages, shall we? Context is always nice 
:
17 Nevertheless, each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has called them. This is the rule I lay down in all the churches. 18 Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised.
19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing.
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Keeping God’s commands is what counts.
20 Each person should remain in the situation they were in when God called them. (from 1 Cor. 7)
The Law clearly states that circumcision is a requirement of the Law. Participation in the Passover Feast is not open to the uncircumcised. And the Passover Feast is a part of the Law, yes?
So how can 'Keeping God's commands is what counts' be a declarative by Paul if circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing??? Clearly, according to the commandments contained in the Law, circumcision is an absolutely required something!
The other option here is that God's commandments, after the Cross, DO NOT include circumsision, OR Feast keeping, OR the other elements found in the Old Covenant because AFTER the Cross the commandments of God are clearly these:
23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us. (from 1 Jn. 3)
That makes far more sense than pointing believers back to an obsolete covenantal system with a confusing directive to keep God's commandments and then telling them that circumcision is not required when God's commandments in the obsolete Old Covenant require circumcision! Obviously the commandments of God to which Paul is referring are those given after the Cross (see 1 Jn. 3 passage above).
Now for the next one:
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. (from 1 Jn. 5)
The Torah-centric teacher will tell you that God's commandments referred to by John in 1 Jn. 5 are
A. The laws given to Israel at Sinai, and
B. That John is quoting Deut. 30:11 where God says, "Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach."
Regarding point A: John defines God's commands in the very same letter two chapters prior in 1 Jn. 3:23-24 (see passage quoted above), and they are simply to believe on the One God has sent (Christ) and to love one another. That's it. The simple Gospel.
Regarding point B: In Deut. 30:11 God is referring to two instances when Israel boasted that they would keep all that God commanded, both before and after the giving of the commandments contained in the Law given at Sinai:
8 All the people answered together and said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do.” (from Ex. 19, before the Law was given)
3 Moses came and told the people all the words of the Lord and all the rules. And all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words that the Lord has spoken we will do.” (from Ex. 24, after the Law was given)
Now let's look again at what God says in Deut. 30:11 -
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it. (from Deut. 30)
Some speculate, and I agree, that God was using a sarcastic tone with Israel, knowing that they could neither keep the Law as it was given nor was it something that would be easy for them to attempt, hence the built-in sacrificial system. Seems an obvious point that God knew they were bound for failure even in their zeal and pride.
Which raises another question: Why would God give the Law if He knew it couldn't be kept? Seems kind of like a cruel joke, yes? Note that while under a covenant of Grace, the Abrahamic Covenant, Israel grumbled and complained, questioned God's leading, provision, and protection. So God gave them the option of the Law, which put the ball in their court: Obey and live, or disobey and die. They had control in the Law system - their input controlled outcome - and they liked that idea because they thought they could do better with some control instead of trusting God step by step.
God gave them two chances, once before and once after the Law was given, to embrace the Grace that they were already under or embrace the system of Law He presented to them through Moses. In their pride and desire for control, they chose Law: "We will do ALL that the Lord has spoken."
And God had a purpose for the Law - to point out mankind's sin and our need for a Savior. The Law also provided a framework by which Israel would be set apart from the world so that Messiah would be recognized when He came (though Israel had no trouble maintaining their identity before the Law - from Jacob all the way to Moses, even while in captivity by Egypt). The primary necessity of the Law was to show mankind how dreadfully far we fall short of the requirements of God.
Sooooo . . . are THOSE the commandments that John was talking about? The commandments contained in the Law given at Sinai? What was the conclusion of the Apostles who lived under the Law for their whole lives before Christ released them from the Law?
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” [Note that they were preaching circumcision, which IS part of the commandments in the Law - refer back to 'neither circumcision nor uncircumcision matters - apparently, according to the Law, it DOES matter!]
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.” (from Acts 15)
Centuries revealed to many in Israel that the demands of the Law was a yoke that neither current Israelites nor Israelites over time had been able to bear. They had learned the lesson the Law was put in place to teach; the Law was our schoolmaster:
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (from Gal. 3)
Which further illuminates the words of Christ when He says,
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” (from Mt. 11)
As for BibleGuy's assertion,
"And all Christians are included as fellow Israelites who partake in all the covenants between YHVH and Israel. Thus, all Christians should OBEY the Torah of these covenants in which they participate."
. . . the words of the Apostles in Acts 15 make clear that Gentiles do not become Israel and are not subject to the commandments contained in the Law given at Sinai. The claim that 'all Christians are included as fellow Israelites' is a whole 'nother ball of wax, which, if one is so inclined can read more about HERE and HERE.
Grace and peace,
-JGIG
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