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B
I'm trying to be polite, but after hundred of posts and offering hundreds of scripture on which I base my understanding of the subject, forgive me if I think your response here is more silly. Read Habakkuk chapter 3 and Zepheniah 1 psalms 2, its everywhere. I guess God will open the eyes when it is His time. Peace!
B
I'm trying to be polite, but after hundred of posts and offering hundreds of scripture on which I base my understanding of the subject, forgive me if I think your response here is more silly. Read Habakkuk chapter 3 and Zepheniah 1 psalms 2, its everywhere. I guess God will open the eyes when it is His time. Peace!
The Oil is the HS.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.
God doesn't stand before Himself.
Paul tells us the Olive Tree is the Jewish Nation and the saved Gentiles who are grafted in. Read Romans 11.
A Lampstand is a church. Read Rev 1.
and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.
What is the Great Commission? The HS gives the power for us to be witnesses!!
Acts 1:8
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
But peace to you brother. You go ahead with your ideas if you want.
B
No the beaten golden lampstand in Zechariah 4 is the Lord Jesus and the two olive trees are the Lord Jehovah and the Holy spirit.
Go back to what The angel Gabriel explained to Mary about how the birth was possible.
Luk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
To me this makes it obvious who the Two Olive Trees,Two Lampstands,Two Witnesses are.
I was in shock Too, when God removed the blinders from my eyes and I finally saw the truth of the matter.
You have to realize the source of the oil is the key. I wish you could see it, but no man has anything unless it is given by the Father. Peace!
Go back to what The angel Gabriel explained to Mary about how the birth was possible.
Luk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
To me this makes it obvious who the Two Olive Trees,Two Lampstands,Two Witnesses are.
I was in shock Too, when God removed the blinders from my eyes and I finally saw the truth of the matter.
You have to realize the source of the oil is the key. I wish you could see it, but no man has anything unless it is given by the Father. Peace!
Again, the oil is the HS. This is clear from many passages. What holds or contains or possesses the HS? We do. Lampstands and olive trees aren't the oil, they hold the oil.
The HS isn't going to be killed. Do you really think that? Christ died once for us all. God isn't going to die neither is He going to allow his HS to be killed. In fact, a spirit cannot be killed literally, only spiritually. The HS of God cannot be killed spiritually by Satan, this would mean Satan would defeat God and brother, that will NEVER happen.
What this passage (Rev 11) is trying to tell us is that the vessels of the HS (which are God's people) will be killed en mass in the last days. Without us, the HS's presence on the earth will be greatly diminished. Paul teaches in 2 Thes 2 that the one "who restrains" the Man of Sin will be removed before the Man of Sin (Satan in the flesh) is revealed. The church (Believing Jews and Christians) will be killed in huge numbers prior to the Man of Sin being revealed. This is the lesson my friend.
The "falling away" isn't apostasy (although that happens too) rather it is death. The world is going to kill those of us with faith in massive numbers just as Jesus taught in the Olivet (Mat 24:9). This happens before and during the Great Tribulation of Israel (and I submit has already started in the middle east).
Rev 13: [SUP]7 [/SUP]It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
Once Christianity has been wiped out (except for the 144K), the world will become entirely Islamic. It will truly be a very dark place.
Paul teaches in 1 Thes 4:17 that when God returns at the Day of the Lord that only a remnant remain alive to gather (Rapture).
The HS isn't going to be killed. Do you really think that? Christ died once for us all. God isn't going to die neither is He going to allow his HS to be killed. In fact, a spirit cannot be killed literally, only spiritually. The HS of God cannot be killed spiritually by Satan, this would mean Satan would defeat God and brother, that will NEVER happen.
What this passage (Rev 11) is trying to tell us is that the vessels of the HS (which are God's people) will be killed en mass in the last days. Without us, the HS's presence on the earth will be greatly diminished. Paul teaches in 2 Thes 2 that the one "who restrains" the Man of Sin will be removed before the Man of Sin (Satan in the flesh) is revealed. The church (Believing Jews and Christians) will be killed in huge numbers prior to the Man of Sin being revealed. This is the lesson my friend.
The "falling away" isn't apostasy (although that happens too) rather it is death. The world is going to kill those of us with faith in massive numbers just as Jesus taught in the Olivet (Mat 24:9). This happens before and during the Great Tribulation of Israel (and I submit has already started in the middle east).
Rev 13: [SUP]7 [/SUP]It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
Once Christianity has been wiped out (except for the 144K), the world will become entirely Islamic. It will truly be a very dark place.
Paul teaches in 1 Thes 4:17 that when God returns at the Day of the Lord that only a remnant remain alive to gather (Rapture).
B
If Jesus(THE WORD OF GOD) could come in the flesh and lay down His life as a sacrifice. Why would it seem to be an impossibility for His Father to do the same? Remember! There is a morning and an evening sacrifice. A former, and a latter rain.
Satan will think he has won but 3 days later when the TWO WITNESSES rise in the sight of the whole world. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, will justly unleash the wrath of God in full measure, in the final plagues. They are the evening SACRIFICE! Others have said, and rightly so, that no man has ever breathed fire to kill his enemies, in the history of the world. So either Rev 11 is allegorical or it has to be God. I take the scripture literally. I guess that's my problem! But all of the prophets prayed that Jehovah would rise up and speak for Himself, to take His vengeance out on the wicked. Remember:vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord! He will not give that right to any man or to the church. The OLIVE TREES are the source of POWER. Remember: Not by might, nor by power(human power) but by My Spirit! Sayeth the Lord. The prophets realized how inadequate they were. No, just as the Jews were wrong in thinking that the messiah would be a great man, but not God. The same will be true of the Two Witnesses. No man or group is qualified to do this. The prophet prayers will finally be answered, as they should be. Remember what God said to Moses: Behold, I will make you appear in the eyes of Pharoh as God. Moses and Aaron were a shadow of the two witnesses, a type!
I don't know why God has given me this, but I believe it to my core! It is not taking anything away from Jesus,He is the savior of the church. I believe this is how God finally reaches the Jewish nation and the rest of His lost sheep. They are the double portion, which is by law, due to the first born son.
It's not crystal clear how it will all play out during the tribulation period, but I believe this is a giant puzzle piece that has been missing from mainstream Christian eschatology.
I may be wrong, that's ok with me. If it plays out your way, that's fine, its just not the way I see it in my bible study.
I know this! It will play out in the way that brings the maximum amount of glory to the Father!
Even so Lord come!
Peace in Christ
Satan will think he has won but 3 days later when the TWO WITNESSES rise in the sight of the whole world. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, will justly unleash the wrath of God in full measure, in the final plagues. They are the evening SACRIFICE! Others have said, and rightly so, that no man has ever breathed fire to kill his enemies, in the history of the world. So either Rev 11 is allegorical or it has to be God. I take the scripture literally. I guess that's my problem! But all of the prophets prayed that Jehovah would rise up and speak for Himself, to take His vengeance out on the wicked. Remember:vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord! He will not give that right to any man or to the church. The OLIVE TREES are the source of POWER. Remember: Not by might, nor by power(human power) but by My Spirit! Sayeth the Lord. The prophets realized how inadequate they were. No, just as the Jews were wrong in thinking that the messiah would be a great man, but not God. The same will be true of the Two Witnesses. No man or group is qualified to do this. The prophet prayers will finally be answered, as they should be. Remember what God said to Moses: Behold, I will make you appear in the eyes of Pharoh as God. Moses and Aaron were a shadow of the two witnesses, a type!
I don't know why God has given me this, but I believe it to my core! It is not taking anything away from Jesus,He is the savior of the church. I believe this is how God finally reaches the Jewish nation and the rest of His lost sheep. They are the double portion, which is by law, due to the first born son.
It's not crystal clear how it will all play out during the tribulation period, but I believe this is a giant puzzle piece that has been missing from mainstream Christian eschatology.
I may be wrong, that's ok with me. If it plays out your way, that's fine, its just not the way I see it in my bible study.
I know this! It will play out in the way that brings the maximum amount of glory to the Father!
Even so Lord come!
Peace in Christ
I don't even know what to say to this.
Hebrews 7:27
who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.
Once for all!!! The key word is ONCE.
Hebrews 9:26
He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Again, ONCE!!
Correct!! There will be no fire breathing men. It is allegorical. See how it is used here:
Jer 5:[SUP] 14 [/SUP]Therefore thus says the Lord God of hosts: “Because you speak this word, Behold, I will make My words in your mouth fire, And this people wood, And it shall devour them.
Compare to this:
Rev 11: [SUP]5 [/SUP]And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies.
See how the Words of God are like fire and the people, wood. The wood (people) are consumed by the fire (Words of God). It used to be (until very recently) that when Christians spoke the Truth of the Word concerning Jesus and His Commandments that no sinner could stand against these words.
The HS gave the church POWER at Pentecost. They could speak in foreign languages, cast out demons, heal the sick and blind, withstand poisonous snake bites, etc.
Acts 2: [SUP]3 [/SUP]Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. [SUP]43 [/SUP]Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.
This isn't the vengeance or wrath. That comes from God later. This is the Power of the Witnesses. Look what Jesus said to them and it was the last thing He said before returning to heaven:
Mark 16: [SUP]15 [/SUP]And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. [SUP]16 [/SUP]He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; [SUP]18 [/SUP]they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
See, nothing deadly can befall those who believe during the time of their testimony.
Be careful with such statements.
The Great Tribulation applies to Israel. Only those in Judea are to flee.
You are right about this. God always uses a small number of people so that only He can get the glory. Therefore the Church will be removed, not raptured, but slaughtered. This is the clear teaching. There is also always a remnant. It is the remnant who are Raptured at the end. That's why Paul refers to them as "those who are alive and remaining."
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
If this happened before any bad stuff happened, then what would they be alive and remaining from? A day at the beach? Surely not.
Hebrews 7:27
who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.
Once for all!!! The key word is ONCE.
Hebrews 9:26
He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Again, ONCE!!
Correct!! There will be no fire breathing men. It is allegorical. See how it is used here:
Jer 5:[SUP] 14 [/SUP]Therefore thus says the Lord God of hosts: “Because you speak this word, Behold, I will make My words in your mouth fire, And this people wood, And it shall devour them.
Compare to this:
Rev 11: [SUP]5 [/SUP]And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies.
See how the Words of God are like fire and the people, wood. The wood (people) are consumed by the fire (Words of God). It used to be (until very recently) that when Christians spoke the Truth of the Word concerning Jesus and His Commandments that no sinner could stand against these words.
The HS gave the church POWER at Pentecost. They could speak in foreign languages, cast out demons, heal the sick and blind, withstand poisonous snake bites, etc.
Acts 2: [SUP]3 [/SUP]Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. [SUP]43 [/SUP]Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.
This isn't the vengeance or wrath. That comes from God later. This is the Power of the Witnesses. Look what Jesus said to them and it was the last thing He said before returning to heaven:
Mark 16: [SUP]15 [/SUP]And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. [SUP]16 [/SUP]He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; [SUP]18 [/SUP]they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”
See, nothing deadly can befall those who believe during the time of their testimony.
Be careful with such statements.
The Great Tribulation applies to Israel. Only those in Judea are to flee.
You are right about this. God always uses a small number of people so that only He can get the glory. Therefore the Church will be removed, not raptured, but slaughtered. This is the clear teaching. There is also always a remnant. It is the remnant who are Raptured at the end. That's why Paul refers to them as "those who are alive and remaining."
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
If this happened before any bad stuff happened, then what would they be alive and remaining from? A day at the beach? Surely not.
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B
I disagree with 70% of what you said here, but I give you great respect for the way in which you said it. Great rebuttal! Too many have just called me a liar and a false prophet and responded with childish personal attacks. The objective here in a Christian chat room is to edify, share ideas and use scripture to lift up each other. Iron sharpens iron. Your rebuttal was refreshing Plainword
Thank you. I look forward to meeting you in the Kingdom.
I'll address your points when I have more time.
Peace!
Thank you. I look forward to meeting you in the Kingdom.
I'll address your points when I have more time.
Peace!
