Whats the deal with Catholics?

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Jul 8, 2016
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Dear Rodger
I believe the bishops of the first six centuries of the church were familiar with scripture. Baptism is called the Sacrament of Faith. If one is baptized professing Christ is part of the Rite. ( in fact the apostles creed was an early baptismal creed ) so having faith is neccesssry for baptism
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear God for Me
Interceding for someone ( praying for someone on their behalf) is whst Christians are called to do. When St Paul instructs us to intercede he dousnt those that can and cannot. We are all called to intercede. That includes Jesus' mother well.


Nowhere does the Bible teach that Mary or the departed saints pray for us, or we pray to them.
Rev 5, & Rev 8 doesn't mention the heavenly saints praying.
And Paul doesn't say anything about Mary praying for us.
Your problem is, you believe the Catholic Church rather than the Bible.
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear God 4 me

I would ask you to find any Cstholic document from the Church thst states Catholics believe Mary is God
Good luck with that
Read my post, #532, it proves that the Catholics believe that Mary is God.
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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I don't consider them to be Christian either.
I used to not consider pentecostals and adventists as being christians either. But what does my opinion mean? Absolutely nothing. Did God asked one of us to give certificates of faith on left and right? Mind your own faith, deepen it and let others live their own faith. God will judge us on other grounds than what church we belonged to.

By the way, when terrorists attack catholics in Pakistan do you still think that they are not christians? For the sake of coherence, you should. But, I suspect you have a shame in you that doesn't allow you to deprive them of this beautiful, honoring name such as the name of Christian.

I here there are quite a few differences between them and a Christian church.
By "the Christian church" you mean you own church?

My friends Catholic and I'm trying to convince him to convert. But he's in the mindset once a Catholic always a Catholic. Or are the differences minor and nothing to worry about? Most people seem to think so.
Don't do that! That's the most despicable thing one can do. You can show him what you believe in he can show you what he believes in but leave it there. The "I believe better than you" stuff is very immature and un-christian. I'm pretty sure Jesus Christ loves your friend very very much just the WAY he is.

It is not us who do the conversion, but God. So, if a person was to convert, it better be because that person alone felt like that, not because some pastor told him to. Tere's a big difference between winning an adept to your church and true metanoia.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
Don't do that! That's the most despicable thing one can do. You can show him what you believe in he can show you what he believes in but leave it there. The "I believe better than you" stuff is very immature and un-christian. I'm pretty sure Jesus Christ loves your friend very very much just the WAY he is.

It is not us who do the conversion, but God. So, if a person was to convert, it better be because that person alone felt like that, not because some pastor told him to. Tere's a big difference between winning an adept to your church and true metanoia.
So the Great Commission is 'despicable', 'immature' and 'un-christian'? Got it.
 
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Ugly

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Then Jesus said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP]and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”


So you consider the son of God, and God, essentially, arrogant, immature, despicable and un-christian for encouraging their followers to follow God and find salvation?

So, you, who by your own signature, believes Christ was God, just said the words of God, as Christ are arrogant, immature, despicable and un-christian.
I'm no quite sure how Christs own words can be un-Christian. But really sheds a lot of light on where you are coming from spiritually. And mentally.
Save people from hell, as Christ commissioned = un-Christian.

No point in casting my pearls before swine here. Enjoy whatever god it is you think you worship then.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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What did the early Church teach and practice about baptism? In all the early Church documents we have, and there are lots, not one reference is made to "accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior and "your saved" Not one . In 1500 years of Church history.
hmmm...

Clement of Rome: "We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith" (Epistle to Corinthians).

Polycarp: "I know that through grace you are saved, not of works, but by the will of God, through Jesus Christ (Epistle of Philippians).

Justin Martyr: "No longer by the blood of goats and of sheep, or by the ashes of a heifer...are sins purged, but by faith, through the blood of Christ and his death, who died on this very account (Dialogue with Trypho). "God gave his own Son the ransom for us...for what, save his righteousness, could cover our sins. In whom was it possible that we, transgressors and ungodly as we were, could be justified, save in the Son of God alone? ...O unexpected benefit, that the transgression of many should be hidden in one righteous Person and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors" (Letter to Diognetus).

Athanasius: "Not by these (i.e. human efforts) but by faith, a man is justified as was Abraham."

Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."

Ambrose: "Without the works of the law, to an ungodly man, that is to say, a Gentile, believing in Christ, his "faith is imputed for righteousness" as also it was to Abraham."

Origen: "Through faith, without the works of the law, the dying thief was justified, because...the Lord inquired not what he had previously wrought, nor yet waited for his performance of some work after he should have believe; but...he took him unto himself for a companion, justified through his confession alone."

Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Chrysostom: "What then did God do? He made (says Paul) a righteous Person (Christ) to be a sinner, in order that he might make sinners righteous... it is the righteousness of God, when we are justified, not by works...but by grace, where all sin is made to vanish away."

Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed."

Augustine: "Grace is give to you, not wages paid to you...it is called grace because it is given gratuitously. By no precedent merits did you buy what you have received. The sinner therefore received this grace first, that his sins should be forgiven him...good works follow after a justified person; they do not go before in order that he may be justified...good works, following after justification, show what a man has received."

Augustine: "Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ,--in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."

Anselm: "Do you believe that you cannot be saved but by the death of Christ? Go, then, and ...put all your confidence in this death alone. If God shall say to you, "You are a sinner", say to him, "I place the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between me and my sin."

Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."

Baptism, adult and infant, was and is considered to be the Sacrament of faith. We Become children of God. "born again" through the waters of baptism.
Water baptism has no power to cause one to become a child of God and is the picture, not the reality.

One key Scripture reference to being "born again" or "regenerated" is John 3:5, where Jesus says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."
This verse is so important that those who say baptism is just a symbol must deny that Jesus here refers to baptism. "Born again" Christians claim the "water" is the preached word of God.
Have you considered "living water?" Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit" He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Scripture interprets itself:

Notice in John 7:38-39, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER. But this He spoke concerning the SPIRIT. *Did you see that? The Spirit is the source of living water. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. *Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. *Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit.

But the early Christians uniformly identified this verse with baptism. Water baptism is the way, they said, that we are born again and receive new life—a fact that is supported elsewhere in Scripture (Rom. 6:3–4; Col. 2:12–13; Titus 3:5).
"On the surface" these passages of Scripture may "appear" to support that, especially to the natural man, but after harmonizing Scripture with Scripture, we see that is not the case. Those who teach baptismal regeneration confuse water baptism with Spirit baptism and the washing of regeneration is accomplished through spiritual washing and not plain ordinary H20, which can only wash the body and does not cleanse the heart.

No Church Father referred to John 3:5 as anything other than water baptism.
Then the Church Fathers are wrong or else these copies and copies and copies of their writings which have been copied and preserved by the Roman Catholic church cannot be trusted (possible forgeries). I read an article in "The Ex-Catholic Journal" that says "some of the writings attributed to the Church Fathers have been found to be forgeries, while others have been taken out of context. The article went on to say that "most of the copies of copies of copies of the Church Fathers that we possess today were copied during the time that the Roman Catholic church controlled the flow of literature in Europe." That raises a red flag for me. We do not have any original copies of their writings, only copies of copies of copies which were copied and preserved by the Roman Catholic church. God promised to preserve His Word, found in the Bible, but not these early writings of the Church Fathers. We can fully trust in God's infallible Word, but not fallible writings of fallible men.

Justin Martyr

"As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father . . . and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]" (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).

Irenaeus

"‘And [Naaman] dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan’ [2 Kgs. 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’" (Fragment 34 [A.D. 190]).

Tertullian

"[N]o one can attain salvation without baptism, especially in view of the declaration of the Lord, who says, ‘Unless a man shall be born of water, he shall not have life’" (Baptism 12:1 [A.D. 203]).

Hippolytus

"The Father of immortality sent the immortal Son and Word into the world, who came to man in order to wash him with water and the Spirit; and he, begetting us again to incorruption of soul and body, breathed into us the Spirit of life, and endued us with an incorruptible panoply. If, therefore, man has become immortal, he will also be God. And if he is made God by water and the Holy Spirit after the regeneration of the laver he is found to be also joint-heir with Christ after the resurrection from the dead. Wherefore I preach to this effect: Come, all ye kindreds of the nations, to the immortality of the baptism" (Discourse on the Holy Theophany 8 [A.D. 217]).

The Recognitions of Clement

"But you will perhaps say, ‘What does the baptism of water contribute toward the worship of God?’ In the first place, because that which has pleased God is fulfilled. In the second place, because when you are regenerated and born again of water and of God, the frailty of your former birth, which you have through men, is cut off, and so . . . you shall be able to attain salvation; but otherwise it is impossible. For thus has the true prophet [Jesus] testified to us with an oath: ‘Verily, I say to you, that unless a man is born again of water . . . he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’" (The Recognitions of Clement 6:9 [A.D. 221]).
Testimonies Concerning the Jews

"That unless a man have been baptized and born again, he cannot attain unto the kingdom of God. In the Gospel according to John: ‘Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God’ [John 3:5]. . . . Also in the same place: ‘Unless ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye shall not have life in you’ [John 6:53]. That it is of small account to be baptized and to receive the Eucharist, unless one profit by it both in deeds and works" (Testimonies Concerning the Jews 3:2:25–26 [A.D. 240]).

Cyprian of Carthage

"[When] they receive also the baptism of the Church . . . then finally can they be fully sanctified and be the sons of God . . . since it is written, ‘Except a man be born again of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God’" (Letters 71[72]:1 [A.D. 253]).

Council of Carthage VII

"And in the gospel our Lord Jesus Christ spoke with his divine voice, saying, ‘Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’ . . . Unless therefore they receive saving baptism in the Catholic Church, which is one, they cannot be saved, but will be condemned with the carnal in the judgment of the Lord Christ" (Seventh Carthage [A.D. 256]).
The Church Fathers were not infallible and at times contradicted each another, so we must look for a surer foundation for our faith. The ultimate criterion is the Word of God. Even in apostolic times, errors quickly spread among Christian churches. I see that appeal that there was a general consensus among the Fathers that baptism was the instrument of regeneration and washing away of sin. That settles the question for the Roman Catholic, who is also amazed that Evangelical Christians have the audacity to disagree with the Fathers on this matter.

It may come as a surprise that Catholics too do not follow the practice of the early church in the administration of baptism. For example it was common practice that the candidate was immersed three times, whereas the modern Catholic rite consists of pouring water on the head. Before baptism, the candidate was anointed with "oil of exorcism" while the presbyter prayed, "Let all spirits flee far away from you." Apart from the fact that there is no scriptural warrant for this anointing, they were also mistaken in their belief that this oil served for the remission of sins even before baptism:

Now this is blessed by the high priest for the remission of sins, and the first preparation for baptism. For he calls thus upon the unbegotten God, the Father of Christ, the King of all sensible and intelligible natures, that He would sanctify the oil in the name of the Lord Jesus, and impart to it spiritual grace and efficacious strength, the remission of sins, and the first preparation for the confession of baptism, that so the candidate for baptism, when he is anointed may be freed from all ungodliness, and may become worthy of initiation, according to the command of the Only-begotten (Apostolic Constitutions, XLII)

During baptism, the candidates had to remove their clothing and stand naked in the water. The newly baptized was not allowed to take a bath for a whole week. I do not feel obliged to follow the fathers in their unscriptural inventions, changing the simple ordinance of Christ into a superstition, not to mention their disregard for public decency. (See Tertullian, The Crown; St Hippolytus of Rome, The Apostolic Tradition). These are the same people who insisted on baptismal regeneration.

In regards to Naaman having leprosy, in the first place, if being healed from leprosy is an illustration of salvation, we have another case that reveals one can be saved without any water. Read it in (Luke 5:12-15). No water is found here. Secondly, Naaman was not even a believer until after dipping in Jordan. He said "NOW" (after being healed) I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," (2 Kings 5:15) and vowed to worship only Him (vs. 17). If we follow this "example," we will have to baptize unbelievers. :eek:

Naaman received cleansing from leprosy (not eternal life) after he dipped in the Jordan 7 times, but no sins were literally remitted for Naaman in Jordan. Likewise, water baptism does not literally remit sins. The NT uses the experience of Naaman as illustrative of the SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD, not of salvation through baptism. Naaman was a heathen, not a believer, and did not know God until the miracle occurred. The purpose of the miracle had nothing to do with being purified from sin through baptism, but was to demonstrate "there is a prophet in Israel" (2 Kings 5:8) and that "there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," as Naaman found out (2 Kings 5:15).
 
Jul 8, 2016
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Dear God for me

" an angel came and stood on the altar /in Heavan/
With a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" Rev 8;3-4

" And when he took the scroll, the four living beings and the twenty four elders fell down before the lamb. Each one had a harp and they held gold bowls filled with incense which are the prayers of God'a people " Rev 5;8

St Paul also tells us to intercede for each other. Since St Paul does not list everyone on the earth by name or selects only certain groups to intercede ( like only priests or women or whatever ) this means he is speaking in a " collective "" sense. That means everyone. Mary is certainly considered part of " everyone".
 

GuessWho

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2014
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Then Jesus said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP]and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
The catholics are already disciples of Jesus Christ.


So you consider the son of God, and God, essentially, arrogant, immature, despicable and un-christian for encouraging their followers to follow God and find salvation?
No. I consider some american "christians" to be arrogant, despicable, immature, not serving God but their own purposes and fears whenever they tell other people that they believe better than them. I don't even think one could get lower than this.

So, you, who by your own signature, believes Christ was God, just said the words of God, as Christ are arrogant, immature, despicable and un-christian.
No.

I'm no quite sure how Christs own words can be un-Christian. But really sheds a lot of light on where you are coming from spiritually. And mentally.
When they are twisted and turned into ideology they are more than un-christian.

Save people from hell, as Christ commissioned = un-Christian.
It is Christ who saves people from hell, not you! And why do you think catholics are going to hell? Are you God? Wow!


No point in casting my pearls before swine here. Enjoy whatever god it is you think you worship then.
If it wasn't ridiculously funny I would feel offended. Too bad you can't see the irony of this all.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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Dear God for me

The Church Fathers debated about things all the time. That is actually how the Living Tradition of the Church is lived out.
Whst is amazing is you went through that whole exercise and did not come up with one ststement that contradicts Church teaching
Not one.
The reason is you don't have an good understanding on whst the Church teaches and how to apply the teaching.
Basically what you have done is lump everything together and assumed it is part of Divine Revelation. It isn't.
The teachings of the Church have a heirarchy so to speak. So for example the Church both Eastern and Western Fathers are unanimous about the Trinity. You will get the Fsthers to debate on say the spiration of the HS. Or the epiclesis takes place at the consecration ( Western Fathers) or the epiclesis is the whole anaphora. But That in know way contradicts the general Dogma of the Trinity.
There are actually four levels of teaching
Lumen Gentium 25

What you did is lump " everything into a big pot" thinking it is all the same soup. It is'nt

It also depends on how the teaching is being applied. In an official document? What level of official document? Was the teaching eventually rejected ? Lots there kiddo

Study harder. Not as easy as it looks

Gods blessings to you
 

Vdp

Banned
Nov 18, 2015
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The Mary of the Catholic Church is not the same Mary that God used to bring Jesus into this World.

Romans 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]as it is written,“There is none righteous, not even one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”

Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Romans 5:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Mary was a sinner. Mary was born a sinner. Mary died a sinner.

The Catholics in 1854 declared that Mary was born without sin, that Mary was sinless just like God.

Sorry DeaconMike but the Mary you are Worshiping is not the same Mary in the Scriptures. The Mary you are Worshiping is a Demon sent by Satan to deceive all the Catholics into Worshiping and Serving this Mary instead of God.
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear God for me

" an angel came and stood on the altar /in Heavan/
With a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" Rev 8;3-4

" And when he took the scroll, the four living beings and the twenty four elders fell down before the lamb. Each one had a harp and they held gold bowls filled with incense which are the prayers of God'a people " Rev 5;8

St Paul also tells us to intercede for each other. Since St Paul does not list everyone on the earth by name or selects only certain groups to intercede ( like only priests or women or whatever ) this means he is speaking in a " collective "" sense. That means everyone. Mary is certainly considered part of " everyone".

Rev 5: 8 doesn't say the heavenly saints are praying for us, or us to them, DOES IT, plus, Rev 5, isn't in the Church age, the Church is in heaven at that time.
Paul also said there is only ONE heavenly mediator, (Jesus).
You CANNOT build a doctrine on what Paul didn't say, So you cannot build a doctrine on Mary or the heavenly saints praying for us, or we to them.
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear God for me

The Church Fathers debated about things all the time. That is actually how the Living Tradition of the Church is lived out.
Whst is amazing is you went through that whole exercise and did not come up with one ststement that contradicts Church teaching
Not one.
The reason is you don't have an good understanding on whst the Church teaches and how to apply the teaching.
Basically what you have done is lump everything together and assumed it is part of Divine Revelation. It isn't.
The teachings of the Church have a heirarchy so to speak. So for example the Church both Eastern and Western Fathers are unanimous about the Trinity. You will get the Fsthers to debate on say the spiration of the HS. Or the epiclesis takes place at the consecration ( Western Fathers) or the epiclesis is the whole anaphora. But That in know way contradicts the general Dogma of the Trinity.
There are actually four levels of teaching
Lumen Gentium 25

What you did is lump " everything into a big pot" thinking it is all the same soup. It is'nt

It also depends on how the teaching is being applied. In an official document? What level of official document? Was the teaching eventually rejected ? Lots there kiddo

Study harder. Not as easy as it looks

Gods blessings to you

You know very well that the Catholic traditions contradict the Bible, otherwise why would you say you believe the Bible AND traditions, ??.
I know what the Bible teaches, and I know what the Catholics Teach, and I know they aren't the same doctrines.


I can prove any one of your doctrines wrong by the Bible. and the Greek.
 
Jul 8, 2016
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Dear God 4,Me

That's exactly what it says. The incense are the prayers of the saints. The twenty four elders are very much aware of the incense being recieved in the golden bowl. The angel recieves the golden bowl full of the prayers of the saints on earth and lays it n the altar of God. Pretty straight forward
 
Feb 20, 2016
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A video for anyone who is a part of any denomination.

What is the prophetic significance of Jesus' statement to the Pharisees, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."? Was he speaking of His physical Body alone? Is there prophetic significance to this statement that applies to the Church? What do the ancient prophecies reveal about the state of The Church In these end-times? And what is God's shocking end-times plan to turn the tables and bring victory for His Bride?


Join Monica Dennington as she goes straight to the Bible to unfold Satan's strategy, God's secret plan, and most importantly: God's prophetic warning of imminent judgment, and His urgent command to come out of your denominations now.

[video=youtube;rF4c4q8NERA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF4c4q8NERA[/video]
 
Jul 8, 2016
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Dear God4Me
If I thought for one minute Catholic teaching contradicted Sacred Scripture I promise you I would not be Catholic. It is because I studied Sacred Scripture in light of Sacred Tradtion thst if makes sense.
Take a serious look at Protestant doctrines. Not one doctrine has not been contradicted by another denomination. Whether it is the subject of baptism salvation atonement sin assurance of salvation justification virtually every major or minor doctrine has been rejected by another Protestsnt denomination. And what's more is that they all claim to be guided by the Holy Spirirt. What yiur telling me is nonsense because yo can't even agree on any interpretation with your fellow Protestant. The baptist down the street from you refuses to baptize an infant and the Methodist minister says yep common in. All claim Sola Sctiotura.
The Bible itself is s result of Oral Sacred Tradition written down.
Gods blessings to you I wish you peace
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear God 4,Me

That's exactly what it says. The incense are the prayers of the saints. The twenty four elders are very much aware of the incense being recieved in the golden bowl. The angel recieves the golden bowl full of the prayers of the saints on earth and lays it n the altar of God. Pretty straight forward

Yes but it doesn't say they are praying for us, or we to them, DOES IT, ??. No it doesn't.
The catholics twist the scriptures to get their erroneous doctrines.

Plus, as I said, Rev 5 isn't in the Church age, which is the dispensation of grace, whereas once the Church is taken to heaven, the world enters the dispensation of wrath.
 
May 26, 2016
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Dear God4Me
If I thought for one minute Catholic teaching contradicted Sacred Scripture I promise you I would not be Catholic. It is because I studied Sacred Scripture in light of Sacred Tradtion thst if makes sense.
Take a serious look at Protestant doctrines. Not one doctrine has not been contradicted by another denomination. Whether it is the subject of baptism salvation atonement sin assurance of salvation justification virtually every major or minor doctrine has been rejected by another Protestsnt denomination. And what's more is that they all claim to be guided by the Holy Spirirt. What yiur telling me is nonsense because yo can't even agree on any interpretation with your fellow Protestant. The baptist down the street from you refuses to baptize an infant and the Methodist minister says yep common in. All claim Sola Sctiotura.
The Bible itself is s result of Oral Sacred Tradition written down.
Gods blessings to you I wish you peace


Come of it, you know very well that the Catholic traditions contradict the Bible.
If you studied the Bible, and studied your traditions, you would know what they aren't the same.

Most Protestants aren't born again Christians, so you can forget about the different opinions.
No one can claim sola scriptura and baptise infants, because infant baptism isn't in the Bible.
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
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Come of it, you know very well that the Catholic traditions contradict the Bible.
If you studied the Bible, and studied your traditions, you would know what they aren't the same.

Most Protestants aren't born again Christians, so you can forget about the different opinions.
No one can claim sola scriptura and baptise infants, because infant baptism isn't in the Bible.

Well, as baptism isn't required for salvation (see the thief on the cross) it's kind of moot. I am not catholic but from what I read what is required for salvation is the faith that Jesus is God and that He was crucified and rose again therebye defeating sin and death. As long as one has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior they are saved be they catholic,protestant,pentecost,baptist whatever. Stop letting satan run your flesh by hating and start uplifting and loving one another as we were told to do. Once you start walking in the light amazing things will happen.