Whats the deal with Catholics?

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Vdp

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Nov 18, 2015
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God has said in the Scriptures that ALL have sinned, even Mary was a sinner.

The Catholic Church in 1854 stuck its tongue out at God and proclaimed that Mary was born without sin.

So yes DeaconMike the Corrupted Catholic Church rejects the Truth from God to teach their lies as the truth.

So now you know the Truth DeaconMike. Lets see if you really will leave the Corrupted Catholic Church or will you twist what the Scriptures say to justify your Doctrine that Mary was born without sin.

Which will it be DeaconMike? Following Jesus and His Truths or following Mary and the Catholic Church with its lies?

What will you do! Follow God or follow Mary?
 

HQ

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2014
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Dear God 4,Me

That's exactly what it says. The incense are the prayers of the saints. The twenty four elders are very much aware of the incense being recieved in the golden bowl. The angel recieves the golden bowl full of the prayers of the saints on earth and lays it n the altar of God. Pretty straight forward
Actually DeaconMike the smoke of incense has always been symbolic of prayers reaching into the heavens. The smoke is NOT prayer. It's just smoke. And I'm not blowing smoke when I say that...
 

Vdp

Banned
Nov 18, 2015
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MMMMMMMM

Morse code: Smile God Loves You


cool

My old days of Ham radio!!!!
 

HQ

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2014
196
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MMMMMMMM

Morse code: Smile God Loves You


cool

My old days of Ham radio!!!!
You are the second person this year to decode my message. Star for you young man! Hmm...was that sexist of me to assume that you are a man??
 

Vdp

Banned
Nov 18, 2015
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Yes i am a man.... lol. an old one at that too. When i was starting Ham Radio there was no Transistors , just Vacuum tubes!!!
 

HQ

Senior Member
Jan 26, 2014
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I got my first ticket in 1990 at the dawn of digital displays. So you've got me beat hands down. Oddly enough the first person to decode my message was a nice young lady that didn't even know Morse code...she just identified it as such and looked up each character on the internet. Have to give her five stars for her initiative.
 
Jan 24, 2009
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Yes i am a man.... lol. an old one at that too. When i was starting Ham Radio there was no Transistors , just Vacuum tubes!!!
I will not be old in 7+ years! I will, however, remain a man!
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
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You are the second person this year to decode my message. Star for you young man! Hmm...was that sexist of me to assume that you are a man??
blue nicks =male. Pink nicks=female. :)
 
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Actually DeaconMike the smoke of incense has always been symbolic of prayers reaching into the heavens. The smoke is NOT prayer. It's just smoke. And I'm not blowing smoke when I say that...
Yes, that is right. Since prayers are not tangible material things, incense is the symbol for the prayers of the saints reaching heaven. That is why Sacred Scripture uses that imagery.
 
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The Mary of the Catholic Church is not the same Mary that God used to bring Jesus into this World.

Romans 3:10-12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]as it is written,“There is none righteous, not even one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”

Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Romans 5:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Mary was a sinner. Mary was born a sinner. Mary died a sinner.

The Catholics in 1854 declared that Mary was born without sin, that Mary was sinless just like God.

Sorry DeaconMike but the Mary you are Worshiping is not the same Mary in the Scriptures. The Mary you are Worshiping is a Demon sent by Satan to deceive all the Catholics into Worshiping and Serving this Mary instead of God.
Romans 3:23, "all have sinned"? Have all people committed actual sins? Consider a child below the age of reason. By definition he can’t sin, since sinning requires the ability to reason and the ability to intend to sin. This is indicated by Paul later in the letter to the Romans when he speaks of the time when Jacob and Esau were unborn babies as a time when they "had done nothing either good or bad" (Rom. 9:11). We also know of another very prominent exception to the rule: Jesus (Heb. 4:15). So if Paul’s statement in Romans 3 includes an exception for the New Adam (Jesus), one may argue that an exception for the New Eve (Mary) can also be made.
Paul’s comment seems to have one of two meanings. It might be that it refers not to absolutely everyone, but just to the mass of mankind (which means young children and other special cases, like Jesus and Mary, would be excluded without having to be singled out). If not that, then it would mean that everyone, without exception, is subject to original sin, which is true for a young child, for the unborn, even for Mary—but she, though due to be subject to it, was preserved by God from it and its stain.
The objection is also raised that if Mary were without sin, she would be equal to God. In the beginning, God created Adam, Eve, and the angels without sin, but none were equal to God. Most of the angels never sinned, and all souls in heaven are without sin. This does not detract from the glory of God, but manifests it by the work he has done in sanctifying his creation. Sinning does not make one human. On the contrary, it is when man is without sin that he is most fully what God intends him to be.

Suppose a man falls into a deep pit, and someone reaches down to pull him out. The man has been "saved" from the pit. Now imagine a woman walking along, and she too is about to topple into the pit, but at the very moment that she is to fall in, someone holds her back and prevents her. She too has been saved from the pit, but in an even better way: She was not simply taken out of the pit, she was prevented from getting stained by the mud in the first place. This is the illustration Christians have used for a thousand years to explain how Mary was saved by Christ. By receiving Christ’s grace at her conception, she had his grace applied to her before she was able to become mired in original sin and its stain.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that she was "redeemed in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son" (CCC 492). She has more reason to call God her Savior than we do, because he saved her in an even more glorious manner!

Again, something the church has always taught
The Ascension of Isaiah

"[T]he report concerning the child was noised abroad in Bethlehem. Some said, ‘The Virgin Mary has given birth before she was married two months.’ And many said, ‘She has not given birth; the midwife has not gone up to her, and we heard no cries of pain’" (Ascension of Isaiah 11 [A.D. 70]).

The Odes of Solomon

"So the Virgin became a mother with great mercies. And she labored and bore the Son, but without pain, because it did not occur without purpose. And she did not seek a midwife, because he caused her to give life. She bore as a strong man, with will . . . " (Odes of Solomon 19 [A.D. 80]).

Justin Martyr

"[Jesus] became man by the Virgin so that the course which was taken by disobedience in the beginning through the agency of the serpent might be also the very course by which it would be put down. Eve, a virgin and undefiled, conceived the word of the serpent and bore disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced to her the glad tidings that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her, for which reason the Holy One being born of her is the Son of God. And she replied ‘Be it done unto me according to your word’ [Luke 1:38]" (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 100 [A.D. 155]).

Irenaeus

"Consequently, then, Mary the Virgin is found to be obedient, saying, ‘Behold, O Lord, your handmaid; be it done to me according to your word.’ Eve, however, was disobedient, and, when yet a virgin, she did not obey. Just as she, who was then still a virgin although she had Adam for a husband—for in paradise they were both naked but were not ashamed; for, having been created only a short time, they had no understanding of the procreation of children, and it was necessary that they first come to maturity before beginning to multiply—having become disobedient, was made the cause of death for herself and for the whole human race; so also Mary, betrothed to a man but nevertheless still a virgin, being obedient, was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. . . . Thus, the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith" (Against Heresies 3:22:24 [A.D. 189]).
 
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Yes but it doesn't say they are praying for us, or we to them, DOES IT, ??. No it doesn't.
The catholics twist the scriptures to get their erroneous doctrines.

Plus, as I said, Rev 5 isn't in the Church age, which is the dispensation of grace, whereas once the Church is taken to heaven, the world enters the dispensation of wrath.
" an angel came and stood on the altar /in Heavan/
With a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" Rev 8;3-4

Like priests on earth, the angels in heaven are liturgical ministers as well as covenant mediators between God and his people. They are vested like priests according to 15:6, and here they offer as incense the petitions of the faithful. The company of all the saints probably includes those in heaven, such as the martyrs (6:9–11) and the multitudes (7:13–14) who praise God for his mercy and plead for the judgment of the wicked. ● The Communion of the Saints is the basis for the intercession of the saints. Just as the faithful pray for one another on earth, so the faithful departed pray for us as they look down from heaven (CCC 954–56). the golden altar: The heavenly counterpart to the altar of incense in the Temple (2 Chron 4:19; Lk 1:11). See note on Rev 4:1–5:14.
 
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Actually DeaconMike the smoke of incense has always been symbolic of prayers reaching into the heavens. The smoke is NOT prayer. It's just smoke. And I'm not blowing smoke when I say that...
Dear HQ
" an angel came and stood on the altar /in Heavan/
With a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" Rev 8;
3-4

note the incense is mingled with the prayers so they can rise to the altar. So technically you right!! the incense has always represented the prayers of the saints on earth. this of course is the biblical basis for using incense in the Liturgy.
 
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Dear God4Me
In the Bible, good (apostolic) Tradition is contrasted with bad traditions of men The bottom (biblical) line is not "tradition versus no tradition," but rather, "true, apostolic tradition versus false traditions of men." The Bible often expressly distinguishes between the two

Bad human tradition
Matthew 15:3: He answered them, "And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?"
Matthew 15:6: So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God.
Matthew 15:9: "In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men."
Matthew 16:23: But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me; for you are not on the side of God, but of men" (cf. Mark 8:33).
Mark 7:8–9, 13: "You leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men." And he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God, in order to keep your tradition!… thus making void the word of God through your tradition which you hand on."
1 Corinthians 2:13: And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who possess the Spirit.

GOOD APOSTOLIC TRADTION
Galatians 1:9–12: As we have said before, so now I say again, If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed. Am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I should not be a servant of Christ. For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not man’s gospel. For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
Colossians 2:8: See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ.
1 Thessalonians 2:13: And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God, which is at work in you believers.
1 Timothy 4:1, 6–7: Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons … If you put these instructions before the brethren, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the words of the faith and of the good doctrine which you have followed. Have nothing to do with godless and silly myths. Train yourself in godliness.
 
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Dear God 4 Me
The Bible contains much information on Sacred Tradition
Scripture is unique, but it refers to an authoritative apostolic tradition apart from itself:
1 Corinthians 11:2: I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.
2 Thessalonians 2:15: So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.
2 Thessalonians 3:6: Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.
2 Peter 2:21: For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
When Paul spoke of receiving and delivering such traditions, he gave no indication that they were fallible or that he questioned any of them because they came through oral transmission rather than the written word. Thus, he appears to take for granted that which many Protestants have the hardest time grasping and accepting.
The related Greek words paradidomi and paralambano are usually rendered, respectively, as (traditions) "delivered" (Luke 1:1–2; Rom. 6:17; 1 Cor. 11:2, 23; 15:3; 2 Pet. 2:21; Jude 3) and "received" (1 Cor. 11:23; 15:1–3; Gal. 1:9, 12; 1 Thess. 2:13).
 
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The informal discussions of Jesus and the apostles are dynamically and organically related to Tradition and Scripture
In a single night of discussion, Jesus—or Paul, or other apostles passing along what they learned from our Lord—could easily have spoken more words than we have in the entire New Testament. It is implausible to think none of that had any effect on the subsequent teaching of these same apostles and disciples. One can remember encounters with extraordinary people for a lifetime—at least the main ideas, if not all particulars. Here are several examples of life-changing encounters with the apostle Paul, as a result of his vigorously sharing the gospel and apostolic Tradition with his hearers, at the greatest length (not merely citing Bible verses or passing out Old Testaments):
Acts 17:1–4: Now when they had passed through Amphip’olis and Apollo’nia, they came to Thessaloni’ca, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. And Paul went in, as was his custom, and for three weeks he argued with them from the scriptures, explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, "This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ." And some of them were persuaded, and joined Paul and Silas; as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.
Acts 17:17: So he argued in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the market place every day with those who chanced to be there (cf. 18:4, 19).
Acts 19:8–10: And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, arguing and pleading about the kingdom of God; but when some were stubborn and disbelieved, speaking evil of the Way before the congregation, he withdrew from them, taking the disciples with him, and argued daily in the hall of Tyran’nus. This continued for two years, so that all the residents of Asia heard the word of the Lord, both Jews and Greeks.
15. The Bible never says that oral tradition would cease
Protestants will often acknowledge, when pressed, that authoritative oral teachings existed before Scripture was compiled, but then are quick to add that the written Bible obviated the need for them (and indeed, sola scriptura holds this by definition), so they ceased. Yet, the Bible says no such thing. It can’t be found anywhere. Thus, the Protestant notion of "no tradition after Scripture" is itself a false "tradition of men."
16. The New Testament frequently cites Deuterocanonical books
Since Protestants consider the deuterocanonical books of the Old Testament (which they term the "Apocrypha") to be non-inspired and thus not part of the Bible, to cite them is, from their perspective, to cite an extra-biblical tradition. Yet, from Jesus and the New Testament writer we find a multitude of allusions to and citations of the deuterocanonical books. Here is a selection of examples from just the Gospel of Matthew:
Matthew 4:4 (cites Wisdom 16:26)
Matthew 4:15 (1 Maccabees 5:15)
Matthew 5:18 (Baruch 4:1)
Matthew 5:28 (Sirach 9:8)
Matthew 5:4 (Sirach 48:24)
Matthew 6:7 (Sirach 7:14)
Matthew 6:9 (Sirach 23:1, 4)
Matthew 6:10 (1 Maccabees 3:60)
Matthew 6:12 (Sirach 28:2)
Matthew 6:13 (Sirach 33:1)
Matthew 6:20 (Sirach 29:10–12)
Matthew 7:12 (Tobit 4:15; Sirach 31:15)
Matthew 7:16 (Sirach 27:6)
Matthew 8:11 (Baruch 4:37)
Matthew 9:36 (Judith 11:19)
Matthew 10:16 (Sirach 13:17)
Matthew 11:14 (Sirach 48:1–10)
Matthew 11:29 (Sirach 6:23–31; 51:26–27)
Matthew 12:4 (2 Maccabees 10:3)
Matthew 13:44 (Sirach 20:30–31)
Matthew 16:18 (Wisdom 16:13)
Matthew 16:27 (Sirach 35:18–19)
Matthew 17:11 (Sirach 48:10)
Matthew 18:10 (Tobit 12:15)
Matthew 23:38 (Tobit 14:4)
Matthew 27:24 (Susanna 1:46; Daniel 13:46 in Catholic bibles)
Matthew 27:43 (Wisdom 2:12–22)
 
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The New Testament cites traditions that are not spelled out in the Old Testament
Many Protestants simply assume without argument that anything that is authoritative must be in the Bible. Yet, in the New Testament we read authoritative citations of unwritten traditions.
Matthew 2:23: And he went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, "He shall be called a Nazarene."
This reference cannot be found in the Old Testament, yet it was nevertheless passed down "by the prophets."
Matthew 23:1–3: ("Moses’ seat"; already seen above.)
1 Corinthians 10:4: And all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.
The Old Testament says nothing about any miraculous movement of the rock that Moses struck to produce water (Exod. 17:1–7; Num. 20:2–13). But rabbinic tradition does.
2 Timothy 3:8: As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith.
These two men cannot be found in the related Old Testament passage (Exod. 7:8 ff.) or anywhere else in the Old Testament.
1 Peter 3:18–20: For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water.
Peter, in describing Christ’s journey to Sheol/Hades, draws directly from the Jewish apocalyptic book 1 Enoch (12–16).
Jude 9: But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, disputed about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a reviling judgment upon him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you."
Jude 14–15: It was of these also that Enoch in the seventh generation from Adam prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads, to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness which they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
Here Jude directly cites 1 Enoch 1:9, and even asserts that Enoch prophesied.
Since Jesus and the apostles acknowledge authoritative Jewish oral and extra-biblical tradition (even in so doing raising some of it to the level of written revelation), we are hardly at liberty to assert that it is altogether illegitimate. If some extra-biblical traditions and notions (that is, those outside of the Old Testament, which was the only Scripture that existed in Jesus’ time) can be held as true and authoritative, then it stands to reason that others can be, too.
 
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God has said in the Scriptures that ALL have sinned, even Mary was a sinner.

The Catholic Church in 1854 stuck its tongue out at God and proclaimed that Mary was born without sin.

So yes DeaconMike the Corrupted Catholic Church rejects the Truth from God to teach their lies as the truth.

So now you know the Truth DeaconMike. Lets see if you really will leave the Corrupted Catholic Church or will you twist what the Scriptures say to justify your Doctrine that Mary was born without sin.

Which will it be DeaconMike? Following Jesus and His Truths or following Mary and the Catholic Church with its lies?

What will you do! Follow God or follow Mary?
Dear VDP
Im posting an article a friend of mine wrote on this subject. Its very good.

I give eight reasons for belief in the Immaculate Conception:1. Mary is revealed to be "full of grace" in Luke 1:28.
2. Mary is revealed to be the fulfillment of the prophetic "Daughter of Zion" of Zech. 2:10; Zeph. 3:14-16; Isaiah 12:1-6, etc.
3. Mary is revealed to be "the beginning of the new creation" in fufillment of the prophecy of Jer. 31:22.
4. Mary is revealed to possess a "blessed state" parallel with Christ's in Luke 1:42.
5. Mary is not just called "blessed" among women, but "more blessed than all women" (including Eve) in Luke 1:42.
6. Mary is revealed to be the spotless "Ark of the Covenant" in Luke 1.
7. Mary is revealed to be the "New Eve" in Luke 1:37-38; John 2:4; 19:26-27; Rev. 12, and elsewhere.
8. Mary is revealed to be free from the pangs of labor in fulfillment of Isaiah 66:7-8.
Here, I will present some snippets from three of these biblical reasons for faith. But first, I must say I am sympathetic to my Protestant friends, and others, who struggle with this teaching of the Catholic Faith. Romans 3:23 says, “All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” I John 1:8 adds, “If any man says he has no sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him.” These texts could not be clearer for millions of Protestants: “How could anyone believe Mary was free from all sin in light of these Scriptures? What’s more, Mary herself said, ‘My soul rejoices in God my savior’ in Luke 1:47. She clearly understood herself to be a sinner if she admits to needing a savior.”
The Catholic Answer
Not a few Protestants are surprised to discover the Catholic Church actually agrees that Mary was “saved.” Indeed, Mary needed a savior! However, Mary was “saved” from sin in a most sublime manner. She was given the grace to be “saved” completely from sin so that she never committed even the slightest transgression. The problem here is Protestants tend to emphasize God’s “salvation” almost exclusively to the forgiveness of sins actually committed. However, Sacred Scripture indicates that salvation can also refer to man being protected from sinning before the fact.
Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you without blemish before the presence of his glory with rejoicing, to the only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and for ever (Jude 24-25).
The great Franciscan theologian, Duns Scotus, explained ca. 600 years ago that falling into sin could be likened to a man approaching unaware a massive 20-feet deep ditch. If he falls into the ditch, he would need someone to lower a rope and save him. But if someone were to warn him of the danger ahead resulting in the man not falling into the ditch at all, he would have been saved from falling in the first place. Analogously, Mary was saved from sin by receiving the grace to be preserved from it. But she was still saved.
The Exception to the Rule
But what about “all have sinned,” and “if any man says he has no sin he is a liar and the truth is not in him?” Wouldn’t “all” and/or “any man” include Mary? On the surface, this sounds reasonable. But this way of thinking carried to its logical conclusion would list Jesus Christ in the company of sinners as well. No Christian would dare say that! Yet, no Christian can deny the plain texts of Scripture declaring Christ’s full humanity either. Thus, if one is going to take I John 1:8 in a strict, literal sense, then any man would apply to Jesus as well!
The truth is—and all Christians agree—Jesus Christ was an exception to Romans 3:23 and I John 1:8. And the Bible tells us he was in Hebrews 4:15: “Christ was tempted in all points even as we are and yet he was without sin.” The real question now is: are there any other exceptions to this rule? Yes, there are. In fact, there are millions of them.
First of all, we need to recall that both of these texts—Romans 3:23 and I John 1:8—are dealing with personal rather than original sin. Romans 5:12 will deal with original sin. And there are two exceptions to that general biblical norm as well. But for now, we will simply deal with Romans 3:23 and I John 1:8. I John 1:8 obviously refers to personal sin because in the very next verse, St. John tells us, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins…” We do not confess original sin; we confess personal sins.
The context of Romans 3:23 makes clear that it too refers to personal sin:
None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one. Their throat is an open grave. They use their tongues to deceive. The venom of asps is under their lips. Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness (Romans 3:10-14).
Original sin is not something we do; it is something we’ve inherited. Romans chapter three deals with personal sin because it speaks of sins committed by the sinner. With this in mind, consider this: Has a baby in the womb or a child of two ever committed a personal sin? No, they haven’t (see Romans 9:11)! Or, how about the mentally challenged who do not have the use of their intellects and wills? These cannot sin because in order to sin a person has to know the act he is about to perform is sinful while freely engaging his will in carrying it out. Without the proper faculties to enable them to sin, children before the age of accountability and anyone who does not have the use of his intellect and will cannot sin. Right there you have millions of exceptions to Romans 3:23 and I John 1:8.
The question remains: how do we know Mary is an exception to the norm of “all have sinned?” And more specifically, is there biblical support for this claim? Yes, there is. Indeed, there is much biblical support, but in this brief post I shall cite just three examples, among the eight, as I said before, that give us biblical support for this ancient doctrine of the Faith.
1. LUKE 1:28:
And [the angel Gabriel] came to [Mary] and said, “Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you!” But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.”
Many Protestants will insist this text to be little more than a common greeting of the Archangel Gabriel to Mary. “What would this have to do with Mary being without sin?” Yet, the truth is, according to Mary herself, this was no common greeting. The text reveals Mary to have been “greatly troubled at the saying and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be” (Luke 1:29, emphasis added). What was it about this greeting that was so uncommon for Mary to react this way? There are at least two key reasons:
First, according to many biblical scholars as well as Pope St. John Paul II, the angel did more than simply greet Mary. The angel actually communicated a new name or title to her. In Greek, the greeting was kaire, kekaritomene, or “Hail, full of grace.” Generally speaking, when one greeted another with kaire, a name or title would almost be expected to be found in the immediate context. “Hail, king of the Jews” in John 19:3 and “Claudias Lysias, to his Excellency the governor Felix, greeting” (Acts 23:26) are two biblical examples of this. The fact that the angel replaces Mary’s name in the greeting with “full of grace” was anything but common. This would be analogous to me speaking to one of our tech guys at Catholics answers and saying, “Hello, he who fixes computers.” In our culture, I would just be considered weird. But in Hebrew culture, names, and name changes, tell us something that is permanent about the character and calling of the one named. Just recall the name changes of Abram to Abraham (changed from “father” to “father of the multitudes”) in Gen. 17:5, Saray to Sarah (“my princess” to “princess”) in Gen. 17:15, and Jacob to Israel (“supplanter” to “he who prevails with God”) in Gen. 32:28.
In each case, the names reveal something permanent about the one named. Abraham and Sarah transition from being a “father” and “princess” of one family to being “father” and “princess” or “mother” of the entire people of God (see Romans 4:1-18; Is. 51:1-2). They become Patriarch and Matriarch of God’s people forever. Jacob/Israel becomes the Patriarch whose name, “he who prevails with God,” continues forever in the Church, which is called “the Israel of God” (Gal. 6:16). The people of God will forever “prevail with God” in the image of the Patriarch Jacob who was not just named Israel, but he truly became “he who prevails with God.”
An entire tome could be written concerning the significance of God’s revelation of his name in Exodus 3:14-15 as I AM. God revealed to us volumes about his divine nature in and through the revelation of his name—God is pure being with no beginning and no end; he is all perfection, etc.
What’s in a name? A lot according to Scripture!
When you add to this the fact that St. Luke uses the perfect passive participle, kekaritomene, as his “name” for Mary, we get deeper insight into the meaning of Mary’s new name. This word literally means “she who has been graced” in a completed sense. This verbal adjective, “graced,” is not just describing a simple past action. Greek has the aorist tense for that. The perfect tense is used to indicate that an action has been completed in the past resulting in a present state of being. That’s Mary’s name! So what does it tell us about Mary? Well, the average Christian is not completed in grace and in a permanent sense (see Phil. 3:8-12). But according to the angel, Mary is. You and I sin, not because of grace, but because of a lack of grace, or a lack of our cooperation with grace, in our lives. This greeting of the angel is one clue into the unique character and calling of the Mother of God.
Objection!
One objection to the above is rooted in Eph. 2:8-9. Here, St. Paul uses the perfect tense and passive voice when he says, “For by grace you have been saved…” Why wouldn’t we then conclude all Christians are complete in salvation for all time? There seems to be an inconsistency in usage here.
Actually, the Catholic Church understands that Christians are completed in grace when they are baptized. In context, St. Paul is speaking about the initial grace of salvation in Ephesians two. The verses leading up to Eph. 2:8-9, make this clear:
… we all lived in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of body and mind, and so we were by nature children of wrath…even when we were dead in trespasses and sins…(by grace you have been saved)” (vss. 3-5).
But there is no indication here, as there is with Mary, that the Christian is going to stay that way. In other words, Eph. 2:8-9 does not confer a name.
In fact, because of original sin, we can guarantee that though we are certainly perfected in grace through baptism, ordinarily speaking, we will not stay that way after we are baptized; that is, if we live for very long afterward (see I John 1:8)! There may be times in the lives of Christians when they are completed or perfected in grace temporarily. For example, after going to confession or receiving the Eucharist well-disposed. We let God, of course, be the judge of this, not us, as St. Paul tells us in I Cor. 4:3-4:
I do not even judge myself. I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted (Gr.—justified). It is the Lord who judges me.
But only Mary is given the name “full of grace” and in the perfect tense indicating that this permanent state of Mary was completed.
2. An Ancient Prophecy—Genesis 3:15:
Genesis 3:15 is often referred to by biblical scholars as the Protoevangelium. It is a sort of “gospel” before “the gospel.” This little text contains in very few words God’s plan of salvation which would be both revealed and realized in the person of Jesus Christ. Yet, when one reads the text, one cannot help but note that this prophetic woman seems to have what could be termed almost a disturbing prominence and importance in God’s providential plan:
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed: he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.
Not only do we have the Virgin Birth here implied because the text says the Messiah would be born of “the seed of the woman” (the “seed” is normally of the man), but notice “the woman” is not included as “the seed” of the devil. It seems that both the woman and her seed are in opposition to and therefore not under the dominion of the devil and “his seed,” i.e., all who have original sin and are “by nature children of wrath” as St. Paul puts it in Eph. 2:3. Here, we have in seed form (pun intended), the fact that the woman—Mary—would be without sin, especially original sin, just as her Son—the Messiah—would be. The emphasis on Mary is truly remarkable in that the future Messiah was only mentioned in relation to her. There can be little doubt that a parallel is being drawn between Jesus and Mary and their absolute opposition to the devil.
3. Mary, Ark of the Covenant:
The Old Testament ark of the Covenant was a true icon of the sacred. It was a picture of the purity and holiness God fittingly demands of those objects and/or persons most closely associated with himself and the plan of salvation. Because it would contain the very presence of God symbolized by three types of the coming Messiah—the manna, the Ten Commandments, and Aaron’s staff—it had to be most pure and untouched by sinful man (see II Sam. 6:1-9; Exodus 25:10ff; Numbers 4:15; Heb. 9:4).
In the New Testament, the new and true Ark would not be an inanimate object, but a person—the Blessed Mother. How much more pure would the new and true Ark be when we consider the old ark was a mere “shadow” in relation to it (see Heb. 10:1)? This image of Mary as the Ark of the Covenant is an indicator that Mary would fittingly be free from all contagion of sin in order for her to be a worthy vessel to bear God in her womb. And most importantly, just as the Old Covenant ark was pristine from the moment it was constructed with explicit divine instructions in Exodus 25, so would Mary be most pure from the moment of her conception. God, in a sense, prepared his own dwelling place in both the Old and New Testaments.
In Behold Your Mother, there is much more that I say not only about these three above biblical reasons for the Immaculate Conception, but I give you five more reasons as well. There is only so much I can do in a brief blog post. But if you would like to dive deeper, click here.
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Tim Staples is Director of Apologetics and Evangelization here at Catholic Answers, but he was not always Catholic. Tim was raised a Southern Baptist. Although he fell away from the faith of his childhood, Tim came back to faith in Christ during his late teen years through the witness of Christian...
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
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Wow, great answers DeaconMike. i wont be returning to the RCC anytime soon but you gave some excellent answers. Well thought out and backed by scripture. again imho not the correct interpretation of scripture but impressive anyway. Thank you for taking the time and not allowing yourself to become mired in unseemly attacks. I am not sure why so many here have such unfettered hatred for the RCC but please accept my apologies for them. If we would spend more time in adult conversation and spend less time on juvenile mud slinging this would be a much better place. I too often fall victim to my emotions, I will strive to do better in the future. Shalom.
 
May 26, 2016
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" an angel came and stood on the altar /in Heavan/
With a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" Rev 8;3-4

Like priests on earth, the angels in heaven are liturgical ministers as well as covenant mediators between God and his people. They are vested like priests according to 15:6, and here they offer as incense the petitions of the faithful. The company of all the saints probably includes those in heaven, such as the martyrs (6:9–11) and the multitudes (7:13–14) who praise God for his mercy and plead for the judgment of the wicked. ● The Communion of the Saints is the basis for the intercession of the saints. Just as the faithful pray for one another on earth, so the faithful departed pray for us as they look down from heaven (CCC 954–56). the golden altar: The heavenly counterpart to the altar of incense in the Temple (2 Chron 4:19; Lk 1:11). See note on Rev 4:1–5:14.


It doesn't say that the heavenly saints are praying for us , or we to them, DOES IT.
Can't you see how you twist the scriptures to get your erroneous beliefs? ?.

The catholics believe that their so-called Mary and saints are god's, as 1000s of people from all over the world pray to them at the same time, making them omnipresent, and therefore making them god's.
And that comes from the catholics background, as they came from a pagan church.