Bearing fruit

[InSpiritInTruth]

Being a "fruit inspector" has it's inherit problems.

Another aspect that goes with "fruit inspectors" is just what is fruit? And what does this fruit look like. What if as an analogy a Christian is like an orange tree?

An orange tree is still an orange tree even though it doesn't produce the fruit we want to see in the timeframe we think it should. What happens if this orange tree dies before it has had a chance to be fed properly to grow up to be able to produce the fruit of a ripe orange?

To some works-based people - you would have to display 50 oranges in order to prove you are a real orange tree ( saved ) - to others you need 100 oranges in order to be a proved orange tree. ( saved ) So, this fruit inspection thing is not viable ..that's for God to look at people to determine if they are in Christ or not.

A person could have love and kindness as a fruit in their life but be addicted to some pills or alcohol which they are continuing to struggle with in their life.

The people that don't have a struggle with alcohol ( or basically anything that they themselves don't struggle with in their flesh that others do ) will condemn the ones that do have these struggles in the flesh and declare they don't have the fruit and thus are not saved. This is Pharisee-ism at it's finest.

Does the orange tree stop being an orange tree even though it dies without having fruit that we think "proves" it was an orange tree to begin with?

What if Christians were like that? What if we fed them messages about the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness in Christ so that they could grow? Then they would produce an abundance of fruit.

I say let's preach and teach the grace of Christ in their lives so that they have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him!

The hyper gracers do not speak out against sin because if they did they would condemn themselves. If you preach a lop sided grace message only with no warnings against sin, then we see what has manifest itself in many denominations. We see a bunch of people still in bondage to sin proclaiming themselves to be free, but they are not, their ongoing sinful behavior proves this.

The full gospel message should be saved by grace and being set free from the bondage of sin. Jesus came to die for your sins that were past, and to also set you free from the power of sin and from living in ongoing sin. Just as it is written, if you are under grace sin shall not have dominion over you. But if you are still sinning, then sin still has dominion over you and therefore you are not truly under grace and been set free from sin. If you are truly under grace then righteousness, not sin, will be manifest and reign in your life.

 

[Grace777x70]

But you said in another thread

Set free from sin does not mean set free from sinning.

Your religion is not a reality, just twisty talk with no active manifestation of a true conversion by the power of God. You say you are a son, but yet you also confess you have not been set free from sinning. But Jesus said those who commit sins=sinning, are a servant of sin, not a son who has been truly set free from sin. So you just contradict yourself and scripture over and over again with your double talk.

And this is what I said to you about my statement the last time you brought this up which you still do not understand.

I will give it to you again. Hopefully this time it will find good soil and help you to see some things for what they are really being said.

Quote:

If you knew what "sin" ( the noun ) was - you could begin to understand the difference between "sin" that is in the flesh which Paul in Romans 7 called the "law of sin" and the act of committing "sinning". - which is yielding to what the sin in the flesh wants to do.

This is the reason we were circumcised with the circumcision of Christ where the new man in Christ is cut away from the body of flesh that has the law of sin in it. See Romans 7:17-22 and Col.2:11.

We will have in our flesh this law of sin ( the noun ) until we go to be with the Lord. If we walk by the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh ( which has the law of sin in it ) to do "its" desires. - called "sinning"

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

If you would sometimes listen to others that had a different opinion and stop calling them false teachers because they have a different view then you do and stop maligning people - you might learn something that will bless you.

So, you see there is a difference between "sin" and "sinning". We are free from the law of sin in our flesh but we can still give in to it's desires and thus that is called sinning.

You will never be sinless no matter what you think but you are fee from sin in your flesh. "sinning" is the act of yielding to the "sin" ( the noun ) in your flesh.

Malice slander, strife and such "things like this" ( Gal 5:21 ) are in the same categories of the works of the flesh just like adultery and murder and stealing.

 

[Grace777x70]

The hyper gracers do not speak out against sin because if they did they would condemn themselves. If you preach a lop sided grace message only with no warnings against sin, then we see what has manifest itself in many denominations. We see a bunch of people still in bondage to sin proclaiming themselves to be free, but they are not, their ongoing sinful behavior proves this.

The full gospel message should be saved by grace and being set free from the bondage of sin. Jesus came to die for your sins that were past, and to also set you free from the power of sin and from living in ongoing sin. Just as it is written, if you are under grace sin shall not have dominion over you. But if you are still sinning, then sin still has dominion over you and therefore you are not truly under grace and been set free from sin. If you are truly under grace then righteousness, not sin, will be manifest and reign in your life.

nonsense.....I myself have spoken about the deceitfulness and destructiveness of sin over 50x times on these threads. This is just a "construct" of your own mind.

We just don't talk constantly about death, evil, satanic, lovers of sin, accursed, evil workers, demonic, full of sin, heretic,...etc.

I know this is your normal language on here so to you if no one talks like you - they are a false teacher.

We are called to preach Christ! ( the warnings do have a place from time to time )

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

All your exposing is your own self righteousness and ignorance and using scripture to prove it.

You want to know who it is that has "itchy ears"? Its those who are desperately looking for some shred of self-respect for which they can congratulate themselves. Something, anything, they can do. Anything but free grace. Nothing humiliates and angers the self righteous more than being told there is nothing they can do. It’s why they rail against the grace of God….it takes them and their works out of the equation and makes it rightly all about Jesus.

False accusers often try to prop up the "self righteous" straw man, and make it seem as if we speak against the grace of God. This is nothing more than lies. We preach we have been saved by grace through faith, and that Christ is our righteousness, not our own works but Christ who speaks and also works in us to do His will. But we also preach the full gospel message, which includes reproving the world of sin, but ongoing sinners hate this message because the Light of the Truth exposes the darkness that is at work in them.

 

[UnderGrace]

False accusers often try to prop up the "self righteous" straw man, and make it seem as if we speak against the grace of God. This is nothing more than lies. We preach we have been saved by grace through faith, and that Christ is our righteousness, not our own works but Christ who speaks and also works in us to do His will. But we also preach the full gospel message, which includes reproving the world of sin, but ongoing sinners hate this message because the Light of the Truth exposes the darkness that is at work in them.

Can you please indicate to me which scripture states that we (believers) should "reprove the world of sin?"

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

nonsense.....I myself have spoken about the deceitfulness and destructiveness of sin over 50x times on these threads. This is just a "construct" of your own mind.

We just don't talk constantly about death, evil, satanic, lovers of sin, accursed, evil workers, demonic, full of sin, heretic,...etc.

I know this is your normal language on here so to you if no one talks like you - they are a false teacher.

We are called to preach Christ! ( the warnings do have a place from time to time )

You yourself once said something like "we do not speak out against sin", referring to hyper gracers I suppose? As a matter of fact, what I do see more of is hyper gracers speaking out against the law as sin, than rather speaking out against sin as sin. Very telling in my opinion.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Can you please indicate to me which scripture states that we (believers) should "reprove the world of sin?"

True believers have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by which comes fountains of Living waters from within, they reprove the world of sin by the Spirit......John 16:8 "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:"

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

False accusers often try to prop up the "self righteous" straw man, and make it seem as if we speak against the grace of God. This is nothing more than lies. We preach we have been saved by grace through faith, and that Christ is our righteousness, not our own works but Christ who speaks and also works in us to do His will. But we also preach the full gospel message, which includes reproving the world of sin, but ongoing sinners hate this message because the Light of the Truth exposes the darkness that is at work in them.

Can you please indicate to me which scripture states that we (believers) should "reprove the world of sin?"[

/QUOTE]

To works-based self-righteous preachers - they think it is their job to rail on people of the world about all their "sin". They have very little understanding of the gospel. This is a perfect example of taking a scripture out of context to make it "appear" to say something it isn't.

This is the opposite of what Christ said.Jesus said it was the Holy Spirit that reproves the world of sin..of sin because the do not believe in Me.

John 16:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

We have word-for-word accounts of the true gospel of the grace of Christ being preached by Peter in Acts 10 and by Paul in Acts 13...and it looks nothing like these self-righteous based-mindset views of the gospel.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

To works-based self-righteous preachers

There is the false accusers straw man again.

 

[gb9]

False accusers often try to prop up the "self righteous" straw man, and make it seem as if we speak against the grace of God. This is nothing more than lies. We preach we have been saved by grace through faith, and that Christ is our righteousness, not our own works but Christ who speaks and also works in us to do His will. But we also preach the full gospel message, which includes reproving the world of sin, but ongoing sinners hate this message because the Light of the Truth exposes the darkness that is at work in them.

when someone claims ( that is all it is , a claim. no truth in it ) that they do not sin, that is the definition of self-righteousness. no humility. no dropping their head, pointing skyward and saying " all glory to Him for His goodness and righteousness" that is what we all should do, not boast ( falsely ) about not sinning.

 

[FreeNChrist]

False accusers often try to prop up the "self righteous" straw man, and make it seem as if we speak against the grace of God. This is nothing more than lies. We preach we have been saved by grace through faith, and that Christ is our righteousness, not our own works but Christ who speaks and also works in us to do His will. But we also preach the full gospel message, which includes reproving the world of sin, but ongoing sinners hate this message because the Light of the Truth exposes the darkness that is at work in them.

I bet that sounded pretty good to you when you were only applying it to "others".

 

[Grace777x70]

You yourself once said something like "we do not speak out against sin", referring to hyper gracers I suppose? As a matter of fact, what I do see more of is hyper gracers speaking out against the law as sin, than rather speaking out against sin as sin. Very telling in my opinion.

Nonsense ...Again a complete mis-representation of what was actually said. I said that we grace believers in Christ are not sin-conscious but Christ-conscious ( Or sin-focused vs Christ-focused for those that the word conscious offends )

We keep our eyes on Christ and look to Him for His grace to be manifested in out lives.

Here are 2 posts that will show what I "really" said so that the "twisting" of what is said can be seen for what it is.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128864-walk-light-13.html#post2429321


http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128864-walk-light-13.html#post2429325

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

And this is what I said to you about my statement the last time you brought this up which you still do not understand.

I will give it to you again. Hopefully this time it will find good soil and help you to see some things for what they are really being said.

Quote:

If you knew what "sin" ( the noun ) was - you could begin to understand the difference between "sin" that is in the flesh which Paul in Romans 7 called the "law of sin" and the act of committing "sinning". - which is yielding to what the sin in the flesh wants to do.

This is the reason we were circumcised with the circumcision of Christ where the new man in Christ is cut away from the body of flesh that has the law of sin in it. See Romans 7:17-22 and Col.2:11.

We will have in our flesh this law of sin ( the noun ) until we go to be with the Lord. If we walk by the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh ( which has the law of sin in it ) to do "its" desires. - called "sinning"

Romans chapter 6 and 7 uses the noun "sin" 48x times ( which speaks of the law of sin that is in our flesh ) and only once as the verb which is the action of "sinning".

Here is what Vine's describes this "law of sin" that is in the flesh - acting through the members of our body when we yield to it.

"a governing principle or power, e.g., Rom. 6:6; "(the body) of sin," here "sin" is spoken of as an organized power, acting through the members of the body, "

Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

If you would sometimes listen to others that had a different opinion and stop calling them false teachers because they have a different view then you do and stop maligning people - you might learn something that will bless you.

So, you see there is a difference between "sin" and "sinning". We are free from the law of sin in our flesh but we can still give in to it's desires and thus that is called sinning.

You will never be sinless no matter what you think but you are fee from sin in your flesh. "sinning" is the act of yielding to the "sin" ( the noun ) in your flesh.

Malice slander, strife and such "things like this" ( Gal 5:21 ) are in the same categories of the works of the flesh just like adultery and murder and stealing.

Committing sins is sinning....

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

So if you are sinning=committing sins, who are you of according to the words of God? 2 choices...one is the Devil, the other is Christ?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Nonsense ...Again a complete mis-representation of what was actually said. I said that we grace believers in Christ are not sin-conscious but Christ-conscious ( Or sin-focused vs Christ-focused for those that the word conscious offends )

We keep our eyes on Christ and look to Him for His grace to be manifested in out lives.

Here are 2 posts that will show what I "really" said so that the "twisting" of what is said can be seen for what it is.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128864-walk-light-13.html#post2429321


http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128864-walk-light-13.html#post2429325

That's the problem, you just ignore all the warning signs of ongoing sin.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

when someone claims ( that is all it is , a claim. no truth in it ) that they do not sin, that is the definition of self-righteousness. no humility. no dropping their head, pointing skyward and saying " all glory to Him for His goodness and righteousness" that is what we all should do, not boast ( falsely ) about not sinning.

I thank God for Jesus Christ who has set me free from sin. That is the power of God my friend, not my own works, not self righteousness, but His righteousness that works mightily in me and through me. Praise be to God!

 

[FreeNChrist]

False accusers often try to prop up the "self righteous" straw man, and make it seem as if we speak against the grace of God. This is nothing more than lies. We preach we have been saved by grace through faith, and that Christ is our righteousness, not our own works but Christ who speaks and also works in us to do His will. But we also preach the full gospel message, which includes reproving the world of sin, but ongoing sinners hate this message because the Light of the Truth exposes the darkness that is at work in them.

Three things. It's the Holy Spirit who does the reproving, not you. Secondly, it's the world He reproves. And thirdly, the sin He reproves the world of is that they do not believe in Jesus Christ. Plucking scripture out if it's context will always end up making you just look foolish. Just sayin'.

 

[UnderGrace]

True believers have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by which comes fountains of Living waters from within, they reprove the world of sin by the Spirit......John 16:8 "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:"

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Of sin, because they believe not on me;


In context it is quite obvious it is this is a reference to the Holy Spirit, are you the Holy Spirit?


Well that just explains everything to me I could not understand those big street signs here in Toronto. “Sinner you are going to Burn in Hell” as if there no Hope!!!!

This is actually Good News, the Holy Spirit is coming to convict people of their sin so that we can tell them about the righteousness of Jesus, because Jesus was going to die on the cross and go to his Father having completed His work.

And the last Good News is the prince of this world is judged and defeated. Amen!!

 

[Grace777x70]

That's the problem, you just ignore all the warning signs of ongoing sin.

Nonsense again! It is clear you never did read the posts...my goodness how you "twist" things.

When this continually trying to disqualify believers in Christ from Christ Himself falls in your face you can always get a job as a Persian rug. No, that's not true - when you are done walking after the flesh and trying to disqualifying believers that are in Christ from Himself - our Father has great plans for you to walk in freedom and love with your fellow brethren and when you finally let go of trusting in your own self-efforts you will find a real life in the grace of Christ.

Then you can rest in Him and allow His fruit in and through you to bear the real good fruit unto Him.

You have an exciting life in Him just waiting for you - just come to Christ and receive His grace. The real life is Christ Himself. I encourage you to believe in Him for everything.....He is more then enough!

 

[Grace777x70]

Committing sins is sinning....

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

So if you are sinning=committing sins, who are you of according to the words of God? 2 choices...one is the Devil, the other is Christ?

You obviously completely missed what I was saying about the difference between "sin" and "sinning" as Paul talked about in Romans 6-7 but that's ok.

In your "application" of these verses above- then when you doing any sinning you turn into "being of the devil"? You see this is where you again have taken a scripture out of it's context as John is describing the 2 groups of people. Those not in Christ - unbelievers and those in Christ - believers. You must interpret all scripture with the clear scriptures of the work of Christ.

Question for you about your verses above and your "application" of them in real life:

So, let's say you slander someone - do you become "of the devil" again?...and if you confess this sinning - do you go back being a son of God again?

"Do you go in and out of being a son of God?

 

[Angela53510]

This thread reminds me of this Scripture:

"Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith;7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching;8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness." Romans 12:6-8

I see so many different gifts in this thread. But I also see people condemning other members of the body of Christ. The OP is obviously one who exhorts and prophecies in the sense of communicating and enforcing the revealed truth, the true meaning of Biblical prophecy. He has a powerful but necessary message. He reminds me of the OT prophets, warning God's people from sin.

And sin God's people had! From Joseph's brothers giving him away to slavery because they were jealous, the Hebrews of the Exodus, including Moses disobeying God, the falling away from God soon after God's people entered the promised land. And thinking about it, it is positively amazing that those people saw miracle after miracle, and still walked away from God and sinned and served other gods.

Then there was David, a man after God's heart, who committed adultery and murder. That was breaking two of the 10 commandments, and breaking God's heart. But God sent Nathan, the prophet, and David repented for his evil.

I'm reading 2 Kings right now. It is just the story of apostasy after apostasy. Of prophet after prophet warning God's people to repent and turn away from their sins! And yet, they didn't listen, and God eventually took both Israel and Judah into captivity, with Israel never returning, and Judah returning, a broken and subservient people who never recovered the glory of God, until Jesus came.

Prophet after prophet warning, and king after king going their own wicked way.

And for anyone who thinks the Old Testament is not about grace, I would urge you to read "The Gospel of Moses" by Dan Block, a world renowned Hebrew scholar. It is amazing how he brings out the grace of God - not just as a foreshadowing of Jesus. God had grace for his people from Abraham through David and all the way to Daniel, and Ezra and Nehemiah.

So let us not condemn the prophet, but instead let us encourage one another with love, and heed the words of one who might say words we don't agree with or even understand. His message may not be for everyone, but I am certain that there are more than a few people that might be sinning, even people who are just reading the posts and not members, and are convicted by this message and turn away from sin and towards God!

"Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing." 1 Thess. 5:11

Are we doing this? Or are we tearing one another down?