Repentance: A Boast in the Flesh

[p_rehbein]

QUOTE:

I am trying to find scriptures in the New Covenant that says we need to be on our knees before we can come to Christ. I can't find any - it must be a man-made tradition of some sort altho I did kneel myself when I believed in Christ. I believe in kneeling before the Lord for sure.

end quote.......

It has to do with "humbling ourselves" before God. Do a Scripture Search of "christian humility, or humbling ourselves," and you will find a bunch of examples. The one right off that comes to mind is found in the 18th Chapter of Luke:

10) Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 .) The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 .) I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 .) And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 .) I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

There are many, many more examples throughout the New Testament like this. And while it does not state he bowed/whatever, it is certain he humbled himself before God, and kneeling in prayer is surely an act of humbling ones self before God, for one is fully submitting themselves to His will. Kneeling, head bowed, we are helpless, and vulnerable......and, it is in these times when God is our Strength and our Salvation.

.....anyway......just my thoughts

 

[FreeNChrist]

The Greek tenses are,
"Our past repented sins have been forgive, and our present and future sins will be forgiven upon repentance".

Jesus died to forgive all the world, [Everyone], 2 Cor 5: 19. 1 Jn 2: 1--2. But it's upon repentance that we receive the remission of sins, Lk 24: 47. Acts 2: 38. 1 Jn 1: 9.

The trouble with you false grace teachers, Is, You quote half truth, which is just as bad as erroneous teachings.

Nope. Our forgiveness is in Christ. We receive forgiveness in Him.

Acts 10:43, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Colossians 1:14, Colossians 2:13, Colossians 3:13, Ephesians 1:7, Ephesians 4:32, 1 John 2:12, Hebrews 8:12, Hebrews 10:17

 

[Ahwatukee]

The Greek tenses are,
"Our past repented sins have been forgive, and our present and future sins will be forgiven upon repentance".

Jesus died to forgive all the world, [Everyone], 2 Cor 5: 19. 1 Jn 2: 1--2. But it's upon repentance that we receive the remission of sins, Lk 24: 47. Acts 2: 38. 1 Jn 1: 9.

The trouble with you false grace teachers, Is, You quote half truth, which is just as bad as erroneous teachings.

If that were true, how could scripture say "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus?" The connection to God's grace is continuing in faith.

"whoever has the Son has life, whoever does not have the Son does not have life."

 

[Grace777x70]

QUOTE:

I am trying to find scriptures in the New Covenant that says we need to be on our knees before we can come to Christ. I can't find any - it must be a man-made tradition of some sort altho I did kneel myself when I believed in Christ. I believe in kneeling before the Lord for sure.

end quote.......

It has to do with "humbling ourselves" before God. Do a Scripture Search of "christian humility, or humbling ourselves," and you will find a bunch of examples. The one right off that comes to mind is found in the 18th Chapter of Luke:

10) Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 .) The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 .) I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 .) And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 .) I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

There are many, many more examples throughout the New Testament like this. And while it does not state he bowed/whatever, it is certain he humbled himself before God, and kneeling in prayer is surely an act of humbling ones self before God, for one is fully submitting themselves to His will. Kneeling, head bowed, we are helpless, and vulnerable......and, it is in these times when God is our Strength and our Salvation.

.....anyway......just my thoughts

I understand your thoughts and I do understand humility and agree with your assessment of it. Humility to me is agreeing with what the Lord has said and not to rule our own lives by our beliefs.

There is also the time Jesus went to Zaccheus' house and Zaccheus stood up and said " I will give half of my money away to the poor.." There was no kneeling but Jesus said "Today salvation has come to this house".

The reality still remains that there are no scriptures that tells us to "kneel" to come to Christ. That is a man-made belief. We can see in Cornelius's house conversions when the word for word true gospel was preached. There was no "kneeling" involved. We can make all sorts of pious looking "rules" but it is all a matter of the heart.

I have no problem if people want to kneel...as I said - I did it. Many have not knelt when they received Christ. ( that's not to say in some times in their life they don't kneel before God - I'm sure they do..I love doing it )

 

[Utah]

There may be a sense of annoyance in the first paragraph because I am tired of people making accusations of licentiousness to God loving and righteous Christians. They accuse them of living like heathens with a license to sin, and defame them, accusing them of disobeying God and ignoring the Holy Spirit. That is tiring and wrong, they even dismiss them as brethren saying their father is the devil.

These things go unchecked and then we have groups opposing one another instead of being unified. How can we even find common ground when we consider one another to not even be in Christ? Fellow children of God, albeit one part may be sincerely wrong? VVhere is the meekness and correction there? Forget teaching in meekness, just toss them aside. Is that the witness we want to give off to others?

Self righteousness brings forth animosity.

Always did, always will.

 

[Utah]

Hi Ben,

I use to run with the Grace crowd but have had a slight change. I can tell you from experience there are a lot of Hyper Grace people who do believe you can do whatever you want because they are covered no matter what. I'm not saying it is this way with all but a number of them do believe this.

I don't see anything wrong with confessing our sins to God. Yes he has already forgiven us but for me I feel if I don't confess them then I might start feeling insensitive to my sins, if that makes any sense.

Though we are already forgiven, it is right to ask God for forgiveness. Humility is a godly virtue, and so is rejoicing in His grace.

 

[Willie-T]

There is a real cruel streak that runs deep through your being........NOW COME OVER HERE AND CLEAN OUT ALL THAT COFFEE YOU JUST MADE ME SPIT OUT ONTO MY LAPTOP!

.......sigh.......

Sorry. I saw you with that cup, and I just couldn't resist.

 

[Grace777x70]

I have heard hyper grace teachers say it,
One leading HG teacher said,
"When I sin, I am blessed, because God isn't counting my sins against me", then he said,
"All my sins, past present and future, have been forgiven".

We are blessed to have the blood of Jesus that cleanses us from all sin and to have eternal forgiveness in Christ. No where did that person say to go out and sin all you want.

This again is a "construct" of your own mind. Can you not see how you are "twisting" what is being said to make it "appear" to be something it is not? Repent and stop being deceitful in mis-representing what people are really saying.

 

[UnderGrace]

You are telling that to the wrong person, You should be telling it to the Hyper grace teachers.

Do you not accuse us of such, that we promote license to sin?

It was Paul that stated it not I. Maybe if I rephrase for you perhaps you will see what Paul was saying.

Romans 3:8
And not rather, (as some reported slanderously (blasphemeo) reported, and as some affirm that we say)
Let us do evil that good may come? Whose damnation is just.

Some were saying that Paul was teaching a license to sin!! Why because he taught justification by faith alone through Christ alone in the all finished work of Christ.

If you take the truth of God’s word that He has eliminated works in every way and you pervert this message to mean we can do whatever we want and that we have a license to sin, than that is missing truth with perverted logic.

Our deeds do not determine our destiny, they never did, that is the truth and this is the truth for which Paul was persecuted.

Those who preach grace are saying the only solution for sin is to trust in the Saviour through faith (belief) and be justified.

Those who would suggest that preaching grace is a license to sin should be careful, because you accuse us of saying do evil that good may come. To make a statement like this comes from, according to Paul, a position of unbelief, because anyone who knows grace would never say this!

To avoid the truth of grace from fear that it may give a person a right to sin, is the same thing as saying the opposite of grace will keep the person from sinning, thinking the law restrains sin, when the law was given in fact so that sin may abound. Romans 5:20

And if a there is false grace teacher saying, let us do evil that good may come, then they are guilty of the same slander.

The law cannot be wrapped in grace, and grace cannot be infused into the law.

One or the other!

 

[Grace777x70]

QUOTE:

I am trying to find scriptures in the New Covenant that says we need to be on our knees before we can come to Christ. I can't find any - it must be a man-made tradition of some sort altho I did kneel myself when I believed in Christ. I believe in kneeling before the Lord for sure.

end quote.......



13 .) And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I noticed in your scripture that the publican was in fact "standing" - not kneeling.

But again I understand the heart behind kneeling before the Lord at times when we pray - of our complete dependence of Him as He alone is our true life. Col 3:3

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

You are telling the wrong person, It's the hyper grace teachers you should be telling.
Their doctrines give people the licence to sin, But when challenged, they say, "We're not saying that".

They are just like the Catholics, as their doctrines say one thing, but when challenged, they say, "We're not saying that".

Well, maybe you should go tell them because they certainly aren't in here.

 

[p_rehbein]

I noticed in your scripture that the publican was in fact "standing" - not kneeling.

But again I understand the heart behind kneeling before the Lord at times when we pray - of our complete dependence of Him as He alone is our true life. Col 3:3

Yes, but as a I was explaining, he SPIRITUALLY humbled himself, as we are to do. We can pray standing up, kneeling down, or laying flat on our faces if we wish. God will accept and honor our prayers from whatever position we assume, as long as we are praying to Him with a sincere, humble and contrite heart.

As I was saying also, kneeling is seen as taking a position of servitude, and exposing ones self fully to the mercy of the person one is kneeling before. Just think of all the Historical visions of people kneeling to see this.

 

[p_rehbein]

FOR GRACE777X70

(excerpt)

Kneeling to pray has been practiced for centuries. Some of the questions that we may have in our minds about prayerful positions may be:

• How kneeling to pray began?
• Is kneeling required by God?
• Can kneeling be found in the Bible?
• Did Jesus ever kneel to pray?

One thought about the origin of kneeling to pray comes from the practice of kneeling before a king in petition for a request. This tradition was a symbol of humbleness and honor when coming before a king or ruler. In recognition and honor to God, it may have been the appropriate position to come before Him.

The Bible shows us many positions for prayer. We read in the Bible that Jesus did kneel when He prayed. Jesus was accompanied by His disciples as they prayed on the Mount of Olives. There were also times He prayed in a standing position as the disciples asked Him to teach them how to pray. Jesus instructed them in what we call the Lord’s Prayer (Matthew 6:9-13). “There he told them, ‘Pray that you will not be overcome by temptation.’ He walked away, about a stone's throw, and knelt down and prayed” (Luke 22:40-41).

Sometimes prayer is spontaneous and takes a variety of physical positions. All of these examples illustrate acceptable ways of prayer. Scripture commands us to proclaim God's greatness by means of our bodies. Here are a few additional examples of ways God is pleased with our worship.

• Some danced and sang their prayers as Miriam did (Exodus 15:20).
• The Israelites bowed their heads in gratitude and worship (Exodus 12:27).
• Job fell to the ground to petition God (Job 1:20).
• The Levites stood and praised the Lord with a loud shout (2 Chronicles 20:19).
• “For the choir director: A psalm of the descendants of Korah. Come, everyone, and clap your hands for joy! Shout to God with joyful praise!” (Psalm 47:1).
• “Come, let us worship and bow down. Let us kneel before the LORD our maker” (Psalm 95:6).
• “Praise his name with dancing, accompanied by tambourine and harp” (Psalm 149:3). “So wherever you assemble, I want men to pray with holy hands lifted up to God, free from anger and controversy” (1 Timothy 2:8).

We see clapping, shouting, kneeling, dancing, playing instruments, standing in awe, raising hands, and lying down. Clearly all these actions are acceptable and appropriate in the worship of God. God is pleased and hears our prayers no matter how we pray. The important thing is that we come to Him in humbleness with a sincere heart and not in a showy fashion.

(found here)

Kneeling To Pray - Prayer - AllAboutPrayer.org


(other links you might want to look at)

Shall We Sit, Stand, or Kneel to Pray? - Ken..

Questions About Kneeling while Praying - Barr...

Hope these help.

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes, but as a I was explaining, he SPIRITUALLY humbled himself, as we are to do. We can pray standing up, kneeling down, or laying flat on our faces if we wish. God will accept and honor our prayers from whatever position we assume, as long as we are praying to Him with a sincere, humble and contrite heart.

As I was saying also, kneeling is seen as taking a position of servitude, and exposing ones self fully to the mercy of the person one is kneeling before. Just think of all the Historical visions of people kneeling to see this.

I agree with you 100%.

There is no scripture that says to kneel when we come to Christ. That is what was being discussed not the attitude of our hearts towards God.

 

[p_rehbein]

Luke 22:39-44New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Prays on the Mount of Olives

39 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.” 41 He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.[a]


For me, this is reason enough. However, I am no longer physically able to kneel for very long, or very often, so now I sit, with head bowed, and eyes closed at the foot of my bed to pray my nightly prayers.

 

[Grace777x70]

FOR GRACE777X70

(excerpt)

Kneeling to pray has been practiced for centuries. Some of the questions that we may have in our minds about prayerful positions may be:

• How kneeling to pray began?
• Is kneeling required by God?
• Can kneeling be found in the Bible?
• Did Jesus ever kneel to pray?

One thought about the origin of kneeling to pray comes from the practice of kneeling before a king in petition for a request. This tradition was a symbol of humbleness and honor when coming before a king or ruler. In recognition and honor to God, it may have been the appropriate position to come before Him.

The Bible shows us many positions for prayer. We read in the Bible that Jesus did kneel when He prayed. Jesus was accompanied by His disciples as they prayed on the Mount of Olives. There were also times He prayed in a standing position as the disciples asked Him to teach them how to pray. Jesus instructed them in what we call the Lord’s Prayer (Matthew 6:9-13). “There he told them, ‘Pray that you will not be overcome by temptation.’ He walked away, about a stone's throw, and knelt down and prayed” (Luke 22:40-41).

Sometimes prayer is spontaneous and takes a variety of physical positions. All of these examples illustrate acceptable ways of prayer. Scripture commands us to proclaim God's greatness by means of our bodies. Here are a few additional examples of ways God is pleased with our worship.

• Some danced and sang their prayers as Miriam did (Exodus 15:20).
• The Israelites bowed their heads in gratitude and worship (Exodus 12:27).
• Job fell to the ground to petition God (Job 1:20).
• The Levites stood and praised the Lord with a loud shout (2 Chronicles 20:19).
• “For the choir director: A psalm of the descendants of Korah. Come, everyone, and clap your hands for joy! Shout to God with joyful praise!” (Psalm 47:1).
• “Come, let us worship and bow down. Let us kneel before the LORD our maker” (Psalm 95:6).
• “Praise his name with dancing, accompanied by tambourine and harp” (Psalm 149:3). “So wherever you assemble, I want men to pray with holy hands lifted up to God, free from anger and controversy” (1 Timothy 2:8).

We see clapping, shouting, kneeling, dancing, playing instruments, standing in awe, raising hands, and lying down. Clearly all these actions are acceptable and appropriate in the worship of God. God is pleased and hears our prayers no matter how we pray. The important thing is that we come to Him in humbleness with a sincere heart and not in a showy fashion.

(found here)

Kneeling To Pray - Prayer - AllAboutPrayer.org


(other links you might want to look at)

Shall We Sit, Stand, or Kneel to Pray? - Ken..

Questions About Kneeling while Praying - Barr...

Hope these help.

That is great. Thank you. I had mentioned this before in one of my earlier posts. As I mentioned it is the attitude of prayer and not the position one prays when we do pray.

What was talked about was the need to people to come to Christ to be on their knees when receiving Christ. It is not a requirement or law for someone to come to Christ. That was the whole point.

As I have said a few times - I personally love to bow my knee to the Father - but then again that is a separate issue from "having to kneel when we receive Christ".

 

[seed_time_harvest]

It is interesting to read how different Christians see this truth EG and I understand what you mean. For myself, I struggle with always remembering minute by minute and being REALLY cognoscente about who God declares I am now IN Christ. I see how really awful I am in the flesh because it is right before my face. How weak and even beggarly I feel at times.

And it is at those times my faith is low and my walk is weak. (what good is that?) During those 'dips' I'm basically a worthless Christian wherever I go because I'm thinking of ME ME ME ME. When I go to work in that sort of mind set I have nothing to offer anyone. My faith is weak so I'm not declaring how mighty the Lord is and how great His power is to save and transform... Since I'm not walking in His transforming power at those times. I'm walking in my weakness and my own self doubt and assessment of me and the world around me. (let not that man think he shall receive any thing from God because without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God.)

I see what a WASTE those emotions are and come to find out it is the good fight of faith to stay out of that fleshy worthless mindset. Because let me say., when I'm thinking about what Jesus did and what He says I am and not what I see I am., all those rotten self condemning thoughts go away and truly in my weakness I am strong because I see His assessment of the situation, and His assessment of me (loved and cared for,safe and secure and beautiful) and wow I'm lifted up and able again. That verse in Psalms about mounting up with wings like an eagle is a reality., I know what that means! We can run and not be weary and not faint!

So based on His ability to lift me up up up and out of dead works and into His living works I know this is the way to go. Forgetting those things which ARE BEHIND (our flesh and it's dead works) and pressing on, stretching forward to the High calling.,the UPWARD CALL of God in Christ.

Don't have my Amplified Bible with me tonight but those verses come to mind. There is no way I could stand to go back to being the Christian I was before getting a revelation of the grace of God in Christ. Never measuring up and living day in and day out in condemnation begging God to forgive me., when all along He did already IN Christ when I first believed., but I was not walking in the truth so I was missing it.

It isn't God's fault when we don't believe and take Him at His word for good and amazing things. When He promises something in His Word, He is good for it. I am walking in unbelief when I don't stand on the promises. And I know many many believers live like this. Having no power at all and no joy in the Holy Spirit.

"Teach me.,show me Thy Word, Thy Word is truth" There is power in believing Him. I'm often shocked how that transforming power actually causes the rooms atmosphere to change where people are. God is evident in our faces and our actions as sons. We ARE a blessing where we go when we allow Jesus to live through us. And we are totally aware of our own weakness when we are walking in His strength - yet NOT condemned OR ashamed anymore. His power working IN us sees we who we are on the one hand but sees who we really are on the other., The righteousness of God IN Christ.

That is a BOLD statement that many believers still can't say yet. It sounds blasphemous without the right context of grace and the knowledge of truth. But those who know about it know what I'm saying.

Amen
I really like that.
good GOOD understanding.

 

[p_rehbein]

What was talked about was the need to people to come to Christ to be on their knees when receiving Christ. It is not a requirement or law for someone to come to Christ. That was the whole point.

Ok, My bad, I misunderstood you. Thought you were saying we should not kneel...........anyway........Jesus did ONE TIME........... Wish I STILL COULD, for I would all of the time.

 

[Grace777x70]

Ok, My bad, I misunderstood you. Thought you were saying we should not kneel...........anyway........Jesus did ONE TIME........... Wish I STILL COULD, for I would all of the time.

No problem...things can get mis-understood by all of us on this internet.

One day my brother you will worship the Lord singing and dancing with all you can with knees that will never wear out!

 

[DP]

These brainwashed grace-monger teachers are exactly one of the problems in today's society, their actual aim being to overthrow true Christianity in Christ Jesus and supplant it with licentiousness and transgressions. No wonder Jesus had problems with 5 out of the 7 Churches in Asia, and told them to REPENT (Rev.2 & 3). That level of falseness is still present today in the Churches no doubt, five out of seven falling away into various false teachings to cause them to sin.

The true Biblical idea of God's Grace through His Son Jesus Christ is a beautiful gift that cannot be earned. Yet it is not a license to sin! Nor is it liberty to not inspect ourselves for future sins.

Apostle Paul warned that communion with Christ Jesus is not to be taken in a unworthily manner. Communion with Christ is for the purpose of remembrance of His Blood shed upon the cross, and a time to commune with Him, repenting and in silence working things out by His counsel. It is a time we are suppose to judge ourselves regarding future sin...

1 Cor 11:26-32
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till He come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
KJV