Bearing fruit
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I believe you dodged the question like you are doing now again. The question is easy to understand and it will reveal what you believe. It's a legitimate question.
I am interested in seeing how your theory about sin and the Christian looks like in real life.
It's a legitimate question that will reveal what "walking after the flesh" means as far as sinning and going to heaven to be with the Lord.
So, just answer the question truthfully as it should be an easy one. Do they go to heaven? Here is the question again for you.
Can someone that wilfully sins by having malice and slander or hatred ( which are all works of the flesh ) and not repenting of them go to heaven if they die tonight?
I want to know about this "living after the flesh" idea.
I believe this question will reveal some things. It is a legitimate question about "real life" situations and living after the flesh.
Answer the question below so that we understand what "living after the flesh" looks like in real life:
Let's look at this sin business for a bit. Slander is just as much a sin as fornication. ( Gal. 5 )
So, let's say someone has been slandering other people for years. All of a sudden they die...does this one that was slandering people now not go to heaven?
...in some people's thinking they would go to hell because they have been "living after the flesh"?
Or what about gluttony which is a sin - what if someone has a battle with overeating all the time and they die - do they go to hell because they were not able to overcome this as this is "living after the flesh" too?
These 2 scenarios above would be people "living in the flesh" and as you call being a servant to sin ( even though they are free in Christ but don't know it yet and haven't gown up in the Lord enough spiritually to overcome them ).
These 2 groups of people in some people's theology would not be children of God and thus go to hell..is that right?
Nope, just twice dead then into the lake of fire=second death. The Lord allows people ample time to repent, and turn back to Him, that is shown in the book of Revelation with the Lords servants following after the false doctrine of that Jezebel. But it is when they do not repent and fall away from the faith that is considered being "twice dead" and not to be renewed again unto repentance.
Scriptures prove this in Hebrews 6:4-8 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned."
Plain as the nose on your face, but I know you guys don't believe these verses, and even all the others that speak of the falling away from the faith. As your kind have done your best to twist them beyond recognition.
Scriptures prove this in Hebrews 6:4-8 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned."
Plain as the nose on your face, but I know you guys don't believe these verses, and even all the others that speak of the falling away from the faith. As your kind have done your best to twist them beyond recognition.
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For one, they are not truly free in Christ if they are walking after the flesh and in sin. To be free in Christ is to be free from sin and sinning. But I answered your scenario in another thread if you want to look it up, though the wording in your original question I had answered, but has now often changed to try to catch me in my words.
For one, they are not truly free in Christ if they are walking after the flesh and in sin. To be free in Christ is to be free from sin and sinning. But I answered your scenario in another thread if you want to look it up, though the wording in your original question I had answered, but has now often changed to try to catch me in my words.
I wish you wound shut up about the " I don't sin" nonsense, it is getting tiresome refuting your lies.
Come and see --->>>>>http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/116251-free-sin.html
For one, they are not truly free in Christ if they are walking after the flesh and in sin. To be free in Christ is to be free from sin and sinning. But I answered your scenario in another thread if you want to look it up, though the wording in your original question I had answered, but has now often changed to try to catch me in my words.
These are my words that I am asking. So, these 2 groups of believers in Christ are not really free in Christ in your theory then? What does that mean in relation to those people going to heaven to be with the Lord?
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth - I believe that's what you said in blue above.
So, just to clarify - these 2 groups - the one that is slandering and the one in gluttony ( there are so many other scenarios too ) - in your theory these are not free in Christ and if they are walking after the flesh - what happens to them? Do they go to hell or do they go to heaven even though they are struggling to be free.
( Some obviously are not even struggling - they are just caught in it and don't know what to do and may have just given up. )
Do these 2 groups of believers in Christ go to hell because they have been walking after the flesh?
Thank you for answering as I'm trying to understand your theories on this subject.
Contrary to popular belief to be free in Christ does not mean you are free to sin=license to sin; but rather it means to be freed from the bondage sin once had on you.
Here it is again for your easy access to my questions: I have made the questions in blue as I'm wanting to know your answer.
These are my words that I am asking. So, these 2 groups of believers in Christ are not really free in Christ in your theory then? What does that mean in relation to those people going to heaven to be with the Lord?
So, just to clarify - these 2 groups - the one that is slandering and the one in gluttony ( there are so many other scenarios too ) - in your theory these are not free in Christ and if they are walking after the flesh - what happens to them? Do they go to hell or do they go to heaven even though they are struggling to be free.
( Some obviously are not even struggling - they are just caught in it and don't know what to do and may have just given up. )
Do these 2 groups of believers in Christ go to hell because they have been walking after the flesh?
Thank you!
A lie is something that is not true.
HG pushs one issue. If you say there is a contradiction between sinning while being
forgiven before time, you are lying. But it is literally a lie to deny this contradiction.
A sinner is someone who is sinning or has not been forgiven and repented.
Now once they feel they have got the righteous with sin in their minds they feel they
have the hypocrites. And the great sin is to state this obvious fact.
The problem is this is not slander, or a lie, or even evil.
It is literally shining a light on the sin of heresy, blasphemy and rebellion.
Listen to the words though they say we are all saved together the truth is they
do not believe it. It is just a lie to allow them to carry on preaching their faith.
Quote
It's the nature of the beast.
People can try to create and maintain their own righteousness if they want
Nonsense....I have not mentioned anyone's personal beliefs. The statement stands true on it's own merit. If people identify with it...that's between them and their God.
Here is my full post "in context". If people take things out of it's context - that is what is really mis-representing what is being said and that is being deceitful IMO.
unquote
And the thorns, are condemnation of the righteous of sin they do not have.
The work of the accuser in the guise of people of faith.
HG pushs one issue. If you say there is a contradiction between sinning while being
forgiven before time, you are lying. But it is literally a lie to deny this contradiction.
A sinner is someone who is sinning or has not been forgiven and repented.
Now once they feel they have got the righteous with sin in their minds they feel they
have the hypocrites. And the great sin is to state this obvious fact.
The problem is this is not slander, or a lie, or even evil.
It is literally shining a light on the sin of heresy, blasphemy and rebellion.
Listen to the words though they say we are all saved together the truth is they
do not believe it. It is just a lie to allow them to carry on preaching their faith.
Quote
It's the nature of the beast.
People can try to create and maintain their own righteousness if they want
Nonsense....I have not mentioned anyone's personal beliefs. The statement stands true on it's own merit. If people identify with it...that's between them and their God.
Here is my full post "in context". If people take things out of it's context - that is what is really mis-representing what is being said and that is being deceitful IMO.
unquote
And the thorns, are condemnation of the righteous of sin they do not have.
The work of the accuser in the guise of people of faith.
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Emotions. Powerful things.
The accusation here is to oppose HG is "wilfully sins by having malice and slander or hatred"
If we have no malice, are not slandering or full of hatred, then this accusation is not true.
Now all I see in sincere people expressing their faith.
The emotion wrapped up in the above statement is neither healthy, gracious, loving or true.
But God bless you, may Gods love and peace, His purity and righteousness envelope you so
you learn to know His will and His purposes. Amen.
The accusation here is to oppose HG is "wilfully sins by having malice and slander or hatred"
If we have no malice, are not slandering or full of hatred, then this accusation is not true.
Now all I see in sincere people expressing their faith.
The emotion wrapped up in the above statement is neither healthy, gracious, loving or true.
But God bless you, may Gods love and peace, His purity and righteousness envelope you so
you learn to know His will and His purposes. Amen.
Love is in all men, young and old. In some it has died completely, in others it burns brightly
because they walk with Christ.
What is this love you speak of that is available to those born of God?
What I see is love can only be fully free to express itself in those walking with Jesus.
It is something we feel, but do not know how to express until we are mature in Christ.
I am interested because though our theology and way of walking with Christ is different
love is so important, I am wondering what you are trying to express.
For me the highest expression of love, is the cross. It humbles me, it puts things into
perspective, it is both cruel and terrible, yet a victory over sin and death, a declaration
that God will do anything possible so that we might know how to choose love and walk
in it.
because they walk with Christ.
What is this love you speak of that is available to those born of God?
What I see is love can only be fully free to express itself in those walking with Jesus.
It is something we feel, but do not know how to express until we are mature in Christ.
I am interested because though our theology and way of walking with Christ is different
love is so important, I am wondering what you are trying to express.
For me the highest expression of love, is the cross. It humbles me, it puts things into
perspective, it is both cruel and terrible, yet a victory over sin and death, a declaration
that God will do anything possible so that we might know how to choose love and walk
in it.
You'll find out if you go to hell, because you are in sin, because you don't confess sins or repent of them, so you ARE NOT forgiven, cleansed or righteous.
Not until you confess and repent.
And I mean the Biblical way of repentance and confession, not the false grace teachers way of confessing or repenting.