Repentance: A Boast in the Flesh

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Nov 22, 2015
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I think we need to be very careful of making it a goal to have people misunderstand our preaching. I know there will always be some who misread (mishear?) what is preached, but that should not be our goal.


I think that a gospel message that is misunderstood is not to be commended, but should strive to be corrected. Or, it should strive to be said in such a way that it is clear to all (or at least most! :)

I agree there will always seem be people that misunderstand the gospel for a variety of reasons.

I don't think it was Paul's goal to have people misunderstand the gospel when he preached it. It just happens because of it's very nature. It is scandalous to some minds and the only people that were accusing Paul that it was ok to sin were the religious people of his day.


The true gospel message is very clear however as you say some "mis-hear" what is being said and thus can malign it for whatever reasons. We should never water down the gospel because of this. There is Romans 6:1-11 that answers those that try to use "grace" and the forgiveness of sins as an excuse for their lifestyle.

I don't believe the gospel message needs to change but that we need to teach what happened to them when they received Christ ( Romans 6:1-11 ) so that they can grow up in Him. Watering down the true gospel does the opposite of it's message.

Abut alas there will be those that will use the gospel to try to excuse their lifestyle and they will be corrected by our loving Father and Lord. To these I agree that Romans 6:1-11 needs to be taught to these types of mindsets.

I have written this a few times - there are those that speak against this so-called Christian homosexual lifestyle where these people think it's ok to live however they want because of "grace". They are not living under the benefits of grace at all. The Christian that lives the lifestyle of out-bursts of anger, malice, slander ( all works of the flesh ) can also think it's ok to live like this as well as the other group mentioned. Both groups are doing the exact same thing in their Christian walk with the Lord.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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The word "repentance" - metanoia as been shown by others simply in the original greek means " to change the mind ". In Jesus and Paul's day the word would be used in a sentence like this. " I was going to the synagogue but I metanoia (changed my mind ) and went to the market.

There are "fruits" of repentance ( changing the mind ) as in the case above...the person "went to the market". ( every fiber of my being wants to say..."and this little piggy stayed home".....but I will refrain )

To us it means to change our mind to stop relying on ourselves and our thinking and turn to God. Stop living our own life with our own thinking and come to Christ and let His life live through and in you. Receive all that Jesus did for us in His finished work. This means how we view sin in it's many forms as it is falling short of the goodness of God.

We should be repenting ( changing how we think towards something ) constantly as we see the Lord's true nature, love and grace revealed to and in us. - to align ourselves up with the truth of God's word revealed to us through Jesus our Lord.

There will always be "fruits" of having a changed mind ( having repented ) to God but the "fruit" is not the repentance within itself. True repentance is the "root" before the "fruit" comes.

The fruit will manifest itself in the form of having a changed heart because we are a new creation in Christ. This will also show in behavior as the life of Christ transforms our outward life to reflect what has already happened in our inner man - that new creation in Christ.

Sometimes our religious traditions can "hi-jack" the meanings of words and can present false assumptions.

Anyone that is interested can listen to examples of this in the video below...it'll bless you and you will fall deeper in love with our Lord as we learn more of Him and we will live a lifelong journey of repentance.



[video=vimeo;112172173]https://vimeo.com/112172173[/video]
 
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Feb 24, 2015
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The heart problem

If you break everything down in your life, what is left.

I am a sinner saved by grace through the cross. That love is in the deepest part
of my soul, it is my foundation, the essence of my speech and actions.

Many people have lots of theories, but inside in their hearts is confusion. A sign hangs
on the door, beware who enters here, they will die. It shows itself in people saying
things like, emotions do not lead, it is faith. How dare you think you know how I feel,
that is not your place to psycho analyse me?

Faith and emotions are together, bound deeply in us. We never have been truly
intellectual or emotional, our emotions tell us where we are, our intellect builds a model
of where to go next and why we are here. Neither is objective or true or reliable, but
it is who we are. It takes time and patience to know the right way to walk with the Lord,
but some claim from the day you are born into the Kingdom, it is automatic. Now as the
Kingdom is about choice and love automatic does not exist.

“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
Matt 18:35
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Sometimes our religious traditions can "hi-jack" the meanings of words and can present false assumptions.
Hyper grace always want to redefine the meanings of words and create new assumptions to everything in christian faith in the belief the problem in the world is not sin but legalism.

So convinced are they with this conclusion, they post meaningless videos, that attempt
to reinterpret Gods word and devalue what Jesus said.

They need to do this, or else love might break out in their hearts and they might repent
of their false distortions and twisting of scripture and just accept Jesus died for our sins
and desires we walk in love, righteousness, and purity.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Metanoia (from the Greek μετάνοια, metanoia, changing one's mind) in the context of rhetoric is a device used to retract a statement just made, and then state it in a better way.[1] As such, metanoia is similar to correction. Metanoia is used in recalling a statement in two ways—-to weaken the prior declaration or to strengthen it.

Metanoia is later personified as a figure accompanying kairos, sometimes as a hag and sometimes as a young lady. Ausonius' epigrams describe her thus: "I am a goddess to whom even Cicero himself did not give a name. I am the goddess who exacts punishment for what has and has not been done, so that people regret it. Hence my name is Metanoea." [2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metanoia_(rhetoric)

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words μετά (metá) (meaning "beyond" or "after") and νόος (noeō) (meaning "perception" or "understanding" or "mind"), and takes on different meanings in different contexts.

The problem with taking a greek word to describe a hebrew word, is it does not necessarily translate.

But then if you want to blunt the meaning and ignore sources then you use everything you can.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Those who oppose repentance.

He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah."
Matt 12:39
 
Nov 22, 2015
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IF, v.t. It is used as the sign of a condition, or it introduces a conditional sentence (Webster)
Exactly...you got it!

"if" we walk in the light - this is a sphere of living - the condition of being in the light means we have fellowship with each other and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin ( present tense continuous cleansing - if we were perfect why would we need the constant cleansing of the blood of Jesus..selah ).

We are always light in the Lord.

Believers are definitely in the light. The scriptures are clear on this.

Ephesians 5:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light ( we should be walking out who we are in the light..but it's through Him we do that. )


Colossians 1:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.


1 Thessalonians 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;

Here Paul is contrasting the believer and the unbeliever. Notice the believer is called "light".

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye ( believers ) not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

The understanding of this truth brings "repentance" to us to walk as who we are in the Lord.




 
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Feb 24, 2015
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Light bulb

Much of what is being read in scripture is being used to define reality.
The problem is there is actually an interplay between three things.
1. The word
2. The believer and their experience in life
3. The Holy Spirit at work in them

I have observed though all believers repent, confess and get right with God, and know
this experience, they want to change the meaning of the words rather than accept the
people who want to redefine the reality in their hearts are just wrong.

It is like scripture is being used just to build an insane theory which is clearly untrue.
"You are gods" "You have command authority" "You will be healed of all deseases"
"You will be wealthy" "All future sin is forgiven" "All morality only brings condemnation"

Now for anything to be true it must make sense in the Word, make sense in peoples lives
and experience, and make sense in the teaching the Holy Spirit provides.

It seems though people want to only believe a theory by a teacher, who is of the right
authority. Being led by the Holy Spirit is just wrong.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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Hyper grace always want to redefine the meanings of words and create new assumptions to everything in christian faith in the belief the problem in the world is not sin but legalism.

So convinced are they with this conclusion, they post meaningless videos, that attempt
to reinterpret Gods word and devalue what Jesus said.

They need to do this, or else love might break out in their hearts and they might repent
of their false distortions and twisting of scripture and just accept Jesus died for our sins
and desires we walk in love, righteousness, and purity.
I grow so weary of your slander of those who share the simple Gospel. Your post above has been reported.

Metanoia (from the Greek μετάνοια, metanoia, changing one's mind) in the context of rhetoric is a device used to retract a statement just made, and then state it in a better way.[1] As such, metanoia is similar to correction. Metanoia is used in recalling a statement in two ways—-to weaken the prior declaration or to strengthen it.

Metanoia is later personified as a figure accompanying kairos, sometimes as a hag and sometimes as a young lady. Ausonius' epigrams describe her thus: "I am a goddess to whom even Cicero himself did not give a name. I am the goddess who exacts punishment for what has and has not been done, so that people regret it. Hence my name is Metanoea." [2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metanoia_(rhetoric)

The term derives from the Ancient Greek words μετά (metá) (meaning "beyond" or "after") and νόος (noeō) (meaning "perception" or "understanding" or "mind"), and takes on different meanings in different contexts.

The problem with taking a greek word to describe a hebrew word, is it does not necessarily translate.

But then if you want to blunt the meaning and ignore sources then you use everything you can.
Wow.

You totally missed the mark on this one, PJ.

The wiki article you reference is about Greek rhetoric, not the Biblical use of the Greek word, metanoia.

A more relevant discussion of the Biblical definition of metanoia is found in this wiki article:





And the simple Biblical definition for metanoia can be found here:





Who is using Greek to define Hebrew? The New Covenant Scriptures were written in Greek.

And trying to link the Biblical definition of metanoia using an article on Greek rhetoric which links metanoia to a goddess in efforts to further slander those who PROPERLY define repentance is beyond the pale. Shame. On. You.


-JGIG
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Shame. On. You.
JGIG - I am sorry. Please forgive me if I have upset you, it was not my intention.

I made an observation about how blessed people are and how common our experiences in
the Lord are.

Now the problem with language, is context around the meaning of words in important.
In some languages the ending of the word is critical, others the words around it etc.

What I am pointing out is greek is obviously very contextual to get the right meaning
from the word.

It is therefore dangerous to read too much into a word in isolation, "changing your mind"
and say that is what the writer is exclusively meaning.

And you accuse me of slander and sin. What you are doing here is a personal attack on
me and an attempt to say I have breached some rule. Is this the rule to agree with
your interpretation of everything?

God bless you, may Christs love shine upon you, and you find His saving grace, His walk
in love and purity.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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1 The Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,
3 he refreshes my soul.
He guides me along the right paths
for his name’s sake.
4 Even though I walk
through the darkest valley,[a]
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.

5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
6 Surely your goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the Lord
forever
Psalm 23
 
Feb 24, 2015
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But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. 22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live. 23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?

24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
Ezek 18:21-24
 
Feb 24, 2015
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The religious mindset says to the woman caught in adultery - 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you."
The grace of God and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things in this New Covenant of grace!
"Knowing" that we are not condemned in Christ "releases" the life of the empowering grace to transform us. It's all about Christ! It's His fruit being manifested in us!
*************

The religious mindset says 'Do not sin and we will not condemn you.'

Listen to this for Ezekiel:

But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live.
Ezek 18:21-22

So God is saying if you turn from your sins, walk in righteousness you will not be condemned.

Now the word "God" has been replaced by "religious mindset". Do you see the condemnation of God
and His intentions. This is why these words are not neutral or innocent, they are rebellion.

Now the idea being pushed is knowing nothing condemns you, you will now be righteous.
Now there is a truth here but it is not this.

Jesus says knowing "love" this enables you to be different. Knowing you are forgiven, that
though you failed the standard you can now walk in it by the love at work in your heart.

The reason these preachers do not use these words because love is not at work powerfully
within them, they only know love from God accepting them, not love from deep within reaching
out overflowing to everyone around. It is why the language is so brittle, and empty, and their
goal is not to preach Christ crucified and Him alone, but condemnation is evil and you must be
free from it, because that is why people sin.

It is why we the standard bearers of righteousness are the enemy. Love has not set them free.
They are pitiable poor and blind, knowing they are condemned by the law, yet not having the
answer rising from within, Christ my saviour has set my love free within, forgiven my sins, healed
me so above everything I bring Praise unto Him, Halleluyah.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:22-23

As the old saying goes, ‘From evildoers come evil deeds,’ so my hand will not touch you.
1 Sam 24:13

Then I said, “Alas, Sovereign Lord! How completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, ‘You will have peace,’ when the sword is at our throats!”
Jer 4:10

They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. ‘Peace, peace,’ they say, when there is no peace.
Jer 6:14

We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there is only terror.
Jer 8:15

“They will die of deadly diseases. They will not be mourned or buried but will be like dung lying on the ground. They will perish by sword and famine, and their dead bodies will become food for the birds and the wild animals.”
Jer 16:4

How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds?
Jer 23:16

At that time those slain by the Lord will be everywhere—from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be mourned or gathered up or buried, but will be like dung lying on the ground.
Jer 25:33

I have listened attentively, but they do not say what is right. None of them repent of their wickedness, saying, “What have I done?” Each pursues their own course like a horse charging into battle.
Jer 8:6


Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few.
Ecc 5:2

Much dreaming and many words are meaningless. Therefore fear God.
Ecc 5:7

Then Hezekiah repented of the pride of his heart, as did the people of Jerusalem; therefore the Lord’s wrath did not come on them during the days of Hezekiah.
2 Chron 32:26

God is mighty, but despises no one; he is mighty, and firm in his purpose.
6 He does not keep the wicked alive but gives the afflicted their rights.
7 He does not take his eyes off the righteous; he enthrones them with kings
and exalts them forever.
8 But if people are bound in chains, held fast by cords of affliction,
9 he tells them what they have done— that they have sinned arrogantly.
10 He makes them listen to correction and commands them to repent of their evil.
11 If they obey and serve him, they will spend the rest of their days in prosperity
and their years in contentment.
12 But if they do not listen, they will perish by the sword[a]
and die without knowledge.
Job 36:5-12
 
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We preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles
1 Cor 1:23

For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.
Eph 1:4

For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thes 4:7

But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do
for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”
1 Peter 1:15-16

In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
Eph 2:21

We preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles
1 Cor 1:23
 
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Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands,
and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures
and the elders. In a loud voice they were saying:

“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea,
and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”
The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.


When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, “Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.”
John 1:47

"let the holy person continue to be holy.”
Rev 22:11
 
B

bikerchaz

Guest
I have a simple question for you who think repentance is simply a turning from sin. VVhen you pray to the Lord and tell Him, "Lord I'm sorry for what I've done. I won't do it again, ever. I am so so sorry." are you capable of fulfilling this promise? This oath? Or is it empty? How often have you repented of a particular sin but you continue to repeat it again and again? So then, tell me, what good does your form of repentance serve you when you're still stuck in the same sin over and over again? VVhere is the power in this repentance? VVhat good are the tears, sulking, and show when you are incapable in your flesh to fulfill this promise to God?

That is the way I see your repentance. People have been attacking hyper-grace and saying that its a license to sin (which is false) and also disagreeing with its presentation of repentance ("a change of mind"). Yet, my question is, what good is your repentance? Hasn't history shown the fruit of the traditional concept of repentance? It is void of confidence before the Lord, assurance in salvation, and the love of God (and the grace of God). In some ways it actually completely ignores what Jesus accomplished at the cross. Confession of sin for the sake of forgiveness? Has Christ died in vain? Did not His shed blood give you the remission of your sins?

There is so much more than meets the eye when it comes to repentance. It is tainted with religion and self righteousness. It tries to acknowledge Jesus, but treats His blood as if common. Incapable of doing that which God set out to do. Granting us forgiveness, taking our sins away and justifying us before God. Jesus being able as our High Priest to save us completely. All of this is tossed aside for a concept of repentance that deals with sin confession as if it maintains salvation. That is where people should truly repent. Change your mind about sin confession for forgiveness because it misses the mark that is Christ Jesus on that cross paying for your sins. You are forgiven, it is not something you seek. It is found in Christ.

This could go on for another couple paragraphs to define repentance, but I will keep it short. Repentance happens daily, it is through mind renewal. It is, after all, a change of mind. It is coming into agreement with God (yes, even about your sins) and then coming into the reality that Jesus has set you free from sin because you're a new creation. Also too, under grace sin's dominion is broken. So the accusation of licentiousness (license to sin) is unfounded because people are explicitly stating that we are set free from it and are dead to it. VVe don't ignore sin. VVe turn to God for His strength. VVe repent in that of growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. In Him is victory found.
I have given this a while before answering your "simple question". In the first paragraph you put in four questions which are not simple, (with 7 ?)
You seem to be coming at this in quite a conflictual stance. You presume quite a bit within the first paragraph. You presume to know my understanding and you presume to know my relationship with Jesus. The evidence for this is itself quite evident as you presume "tears".

Your second paragraph is also contentious. You say that what we say hyper-grace is "a license to sin" , This is also not what I personally have said. Whenever I have been involved with the 'grace' conversations I have refuted the statement that """no matter what you do, you can never loose your salvation""". This is still not a true statement, and no matter what language (Greek Hebrew or Aramaic etc) if we accept Jesus as a child there are as many instances within scripture that pertain to 'watching', 'Being ready' and "keeping close those things we first heard" because satan prowls about to "devour" the unwary, as there are for keeping in Him and knowing the righteousness we have with Christ in the grace He gives us.

This is a balancing act, we cant be all fear because God is love and fear destroys, we cant be all grace because it can distort what sin does within us. This dose not put us in a place where we have a licence to sin as it is not a place where we cower in fear.

Scripture does say "the fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom". This is a powerful statement and does not hold with being taken apart to make it say something else.

I will finish with "repentance", I am not going to mention your take on "how you see it" because you are not Christ and He is the only one I am bothered about and how He sees it is my only concern, saving to answer you as I have. If I sin and I do, (for if we say we can't or don't we are not of Christ and that point is fact,) I come and say "thank you".

I know He is changing me, I know I am a work in progress, I know I am on a journey to full maturity in Jesus, and as with all journeys there are places to refuel, punctures, and breakdowns. I also know I have the best recovery service blood can buy, and if I loose all and have to walk through the heat of the day I have with me the living fountain from which I can drink my fill at any time.

If you are having a bad time with those you feel are trying to get under your skin, or those you feel are having a go at you, pray for them, forgive them as I have forgiven you for presuming to know my thoughts and my relationship with Jesus. I only want the best for you and everyone else here on CC. We are all servants, to each has been given his own/our own talent. We are the virgins waiting for the bride groom to return, we are the householder watching, we are all in Him, His servants, and He has the right to do with any of us as He sees fit.

God bless you brother.
 

Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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I don't happen to drink.... but if I did, and someone decided I was sinning for enjoying a beer with my pizza, would I be wrong to continue and feel no conviction because it seemed a sin to them?
That is a very poor example. Simply having "a beer" with a meal is not a sin no matter who may say it is, the sin would come from an over indulgent drunken binge, which would more than likely be regretted later and that would be where the repentance may come in (and fit nicely in my opinion). I seriously doubt you would feel "conviction" over a single beer or two. Another fine example of that scarecrow that lives around here.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
There are "fruits" of repentance ( changing the mind ) as in the case above...the person "went to the market". ( every fiber of my being wants to say..."and this little piggy stayed home".....but I will refrain )






HAAHOOHEE OHH!!!!!! !!!!HAHAHEEH!!!HOHEEEHAAAHOO!!!

 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
A small question, How did God get across to you how much He loved you?

There is language here that I think we read in our own experiences but they may well
be very different.

I know how much Jesus loves me because of the cross. I know this not because I feel
warm and happy inside, I know this because Jesus died and rose again. My feelings follow
my realisation of this truth.

There are many who go into meditation, who accept themselves as they are, and get a
sense of love, but this is not Christs love they are feeling, but a mystical self acceptance
feeling.

Many have this experience but stay dry and empty inside. So though we use the same
words we can be implying something quite different.

This is why I ask, how did God show you He loved you?
While I was yet a sinner He died for me.